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TBDBITL Director Fired

  • Scarlet_Buckeye
    rmolin73;1639255 wrote:Who gives a shit about a band director?
    Ignorance
  • Scarlet_Buckeye
    vball10set;1639270 wrote:This has already been covered...thanks for playing.
    Pick6;1639276 wrote:I'm not sure why so many of you think "tradition" (bullshit excuse by the way), is an acceptable reason to have zero professionalism. The crap they had to do had absolutely nothing to do with what they were there for. And before anyone wants to throw "sissy pc boy" at me, I'm extremely anti-pc.
    HelloAgain;1639285 wrote:You took time to get the whole story but missed the part where this is exactly what happened.
    OSH;1639288 wrote:No need for any coach or "leader" to talk/act like is reported and validated. Better ways to lead. The type of atmosphere doesn't need to exist or be encouraged from above.
    Reps for these 4...
  • HelloAgain
    sleeper;1639578 wrote:Maybe we should fire every school's president too for what goes on in the dorm rooms.
    If the President was actively participating in it, then that would be the exact conclusion.

    He's a university employee participating in hazing of a sexual nature with 18 year old students. Game over.
  • Mohican00
    Dr Winston O'Boogie;1639622 wrote:Amen. If there is a cultural problem with the band - which I question, but I don't have any first hand knowledge - there are ways to address that like big boys without going immediately to the PC card. THis is an educational institution and look how it is teaching its students to handle problems: act reactionary instead of proactively, find scapegoats and blame them, spend excess money to tidy it all up, and feign moral outrage throughout. Sorry, but world doesn't work this way, so this is a terrible lesson. Life can and will kick each of us in the face occasionally. We need to be prepared for that and to react like grown ups. If there's a problem, we address it like mature adults as opposed to outraged kiddies on the playground.

    I am not passionate about the marching band itself. I just can't believe we are living in a in a time where we have to react this way every time someone says "boo".
    First, what's this "we" shit? You start off by admitting you don't have first hand knowledge of the cultural problem but elucidate first hand solutions and opinions on the matter.

    Also, look up the word reactionary. You're using it incorrectly.

    Lastly, the guy lied to his employer, failed to take sexual harassment training, and did not clean up the unwanted atmosphere to the satisfaction of his employer. Your terrible life lesson here seems to be to ignore your employer and get fired.
  • rmolin73
    Scarlet_Buckeye;1639722 wrote:Ignorance
    Really?
    Mohican00;1639783 wrote:Lastly, the guy lied to his employer, failed to take sexual harassment training, and did not clean up the unwanted atmosphere to the satisfaction of his employer. Your terrible life lesson here seems to be ignore your employer and get fired.
    No these actions are what you call ignorant.
  • HitsRus
    Mohican00;1639783 wrote:First, what's this "we" shit? You start off by admitting you don't have first hand knowledge of the cultural problem but elucidate first hand solutions and opinions on the matter.

    Also, look up the word reactionary. You're using it incorrectly.

    Lastly, the guy lied to his employer, failed to take sexual harassment training, and did not clean up the unwanted atmosphere to the satisfaction of his employer. Your terrible life lesson here seems to be ignore your employer and get fired.
    1)there is no evidence that he lied to his employer.
    2) there are very few on this site, if any, that have first hand knowledge of the situation,... that doesn't seem to stop the self righteous from issuing guilty verdicts.
    3) Waters' attorney issued a statement today calling the investigation "deeply flawed" noting that only 4 band members were interviewed...the complaintant and three 'referrals' from her. No other members were contacted despite the fact that the University had easy access to hundreds of band members and band alumni in the area. This has been echoed by a number of band members and alumni, many of which would testify that Waters was working to clean things up and contradict some of the allegations levelled against him.

    4) A group of women band members and alumni led a march to Michael Drake's office today to protest Waters' firing.
    http://www.nbc4i.com/story/26132970/former-osu-band-members-protest-to-have-fired-director-reinstated

    5)Michael Drake has not been 'available' for comment and questions....but apparently this is not the first time he has bungled a firing such as this.
  • Mohican00
    HitsRus;1639830 wrote:1)there is no evidence that he lied to his employer.
    2) there are very few on this site, if any, that have first hand knowledge of the situation,... that doesn't seem to stop the self righteous from issuing guilty verdicts.
    3) Waters' attorney issued a statement today calling the investigation "deeply flawed" noting that only 4 band members were interviewed...the complaintant and three 'referrals' from her. No other members were contacted despite the fact that the University had easy access to hundreds of band members and band alumni in the area. This has been echoed by a number of band members and alumni, many of which would testify that Waters was working to clean things up and contradict some of the allegations levelled against him.

    4) A group of women band members and alumni led a march to Michael Drake's office today to protest Waters' firing.
    http://www.nbc4i.com/story/26132970/former-osu-band-members-protest-to-have-fired-director-reinstated

    5)Michael Drake has not been 'available' for comment and questions....but apparently this is not the first time he has bungled a firing such as this.

    Waters initially told investigators, “in all my years I’ve never yelled, screamed or cursed” at a student, according to a report Ohio State released on Thursday, the Dispatch noted.
    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/07/26/you-fing-better-realize-who-youre-dealing-with-new-audio-allegedly-of-fired-ohio-state-band-director-captures-profane-tirade/

    Next.
  • HitsRus
    Waters initially told investigators
    Do they write his paycheck??


    Next.
  • Dr Winston O'Boogie
    Mohican00;1639783 wrote:First, what's this "we" shit? You start off by admitting you don't have first hand knowledge of the cultural problem but elucidate first hand solutions and opinions on the matter.

    Also, look up the word reactionary. You're using it incorrectly.

    Lastly, the guy lied to his employer, failed to take sexual harassment training, and did not clean up the unwanted atmosphere to the satisfaction of his employer. Your terrible life lesson here seems to be to ignore your employer and get fired.
    You can polish this story up all you want. It doesn't change my mind that it is a PC and pathetic overreaction to typical college hi jinks. If it has gone "too far" as apparently one of the band member's mother thinks, then address it like a friggin grown up instead of calling in the national guard. I use "we" referring to us as a society. 'We' are setting more and more wimps loose on the world who are incapable of having someone look at them cross eyed without them completely turning into a quivering mess. The example OSU sets here is such a disservice to the students watching. "If you don't like something or it offends you, don't handle it like an adult, tattle tale, go ballistic, and blame people rather".

    Ohio State lost the plot when it hired Gee and this current guy seems to continue that tradition.
  • WebFire
    HitsRus;1639872 wrote:Do they write his paycheck??


    Next.
    The report was an OSU report.
  • thavoice
    Yeah.
    Some tirade.
    PRetty damned lame and I could see if Waters didnt recall that as it wasnt very bad at all.
  • Scarlet_Buckeye
    rmolin73;1639814 wrote:Really?


    Yes... really.
  • Tiernan
    Jesus... hire another former HS trumpet playing band geek and get on with life.
  • HitsRus
    The report was an OSU report
    ...and apparently a half assed one.

    I have 7 employees that work for me, I'm sure all of them have 'lied' to me sometime. In 35 years, I've never fired someone for 'lying'. Moreso, I don't expect complete honesty when I ask them questions that would lead to self incrimination.

    We are back to surrepticiously recorded private conversations, where any little shit can entrap someone they have a grudge against....a form of blackmail.

    Probably a better way of determining whether Waters was verbally abusive would be to ask band members, past and present if he had an abusive personality etc etc...that is, if you actually want to be fair to the person under scrutiny.
  • thavoice
    HitsRus;1639954 wrote:...and apparently a half assed one.

    I have 7 employees that work for me, I'm sure all of them have 'lied' to me sometime. In 35 years, I've never fired someone for 'lying'. Moreso, I don't expect complete honesty when I ask them questions that would lead to self incrimination.

    We are back to surrepticiously recorded private conversations, where any little shit can entrap someone they have a grudge against....a form of blackmail.

    Probably a better way of determining whether Waters was verbally abusive would be to ask band members, past and present if he had an abusive personality etc etc...that is, if you actually want to be fair to the person under scrutiny.
    If that recording is the worst thing they could come up with regarding being verbally abusive then that is a fucking joke.
  • HitsRus
    ^^^Yeah, considering he was responding to a direct challenge to his authority as band director and insubordination. I think I got a worse dressing down by my JV football coach for not knowing my blocking assignments.
  • Tiernan
    yeah but a band kid who never actually played sports would crumble if somebody "boo hoo yelled at me" and went and told his mommy and mommy called the University and said she was going to blow the whistle on the depraved band program. I hope the kid is getting totally raked by his peers.
  • thavoice
    HitsRus;1639963 wrote:^^^Yeah, considering he was responding to a direct challenge to his authority as band director and insubordination. I think I got a worse dressing down by my JV football coach for not knowing my blocking assignments.
    Yeah, no doubt. I think I got worse in a little league game when I threw a change up to a kid (who doubled) after he couldnt even get around on my fastball!

    but anyways....if whomever leaked that thinks that is damaging evidence then I am amazed.

    Or are they trying to use that as he is lied about not cussing at the band members? That was barely anything..and this isnt 3rd grade band practice, they are adults.
  • WebFire
    thavoice;1639956 wrote:If that recording is the worst thing they could come up with regarding being verbally abusive then that is a fucking joke.
    I agree with that.
  • HelloAgain
    HitsRus;1639872 wrote:Do they write his paycheck??


    Next.
    It's an OSU report so I'm going to say yes.

    Next.
    HitsRus;1639954 wrote:.I have 7 employees that work for me, I'm sure all of them have 'lied' to me sometime. In 35 years, I've never fired someone for 'lying'. Moreso, I don't expect complete honesty when I ask them questions that would lead to self incrimination.
    Sorry you're a pushover. But apparently his bosses at OSU weren't. Supervising hazing of a sexual nature with students would have been more than enough to give him the boot. The subsequent insubordination just sealed his fate.
  • HitsRus
    ^^^I think you should read other accounts of what happened/what was going on.
    http://www.abc6onyourside.com/news/features/top-stories/stories/band-scandal-marching-band-alumni-react-firing-findings-33697.shtml

    ...and more
    Earlier today, former marching-band members also talked about the situation, saying they’re trying to sort through the findings and understand what happened. Many say they see Waters as a mentor.“From the outside, a lot of the stuff can be questionable. But I never felt that the marching band was an unsafe place for anybody, especially women,” said Chris Riggins, 33, of the East Side, who played sousaphone in the band from 2000 to 2004.“It’s a difficult situation,” he said. “I don’t know really what the answer is, but I do not think it was firing Jon Waters.”Recent graduates say Waters was trying to change the culture. But the culture, which investigators say included bawdy, offensive songs; sexually explicit nicknames that upperclassmen gave new members; and even poorly handled sexual-assault allegations, had been in place for a long time. It was hard to break, they say.“Ohio State fired the person who was working the hardest to get the band’s culture to where it needs to be. It wasn’t an easy job for him, and he was facing an uphill battle, a lot of resistance from students,” said Tyler Studebaker, 25, who lives Downtown. He is a former band member who graduated last year. - See more at: http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2014/07/25/0725-ohio-state-band-reaction.html#sthash.kqKmkNEI.dpuf
    It seems some outsiders who read the report think the firing was justifiable...but those closest to the situation do not agree. The report is seriously flawed.
  • HitsRus
    Past and present band members and others demand reinstatement.
    http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/07/ohio_state_university_urged_to.html
  • HelloAgain
    What part of "working to change the culture" involved overseeing underwear practices? "Anyone without their clothes on during practice is off the squad" would have been a good first step.

    Also lol'ing at "demand" reinstatement. Some people are forgetting the marching bands place within the rungs of the university(and the world.)
  • Tiernan
    Band people in general pretty much are complete tools so they have no realistic concept of just how pathetic this whole situation is.
  • WebFire
    HelloAgain;1640074 wrote:
    Also lol'ing at "demand" reinstatement. Some people are forgetting the marching bands place within the rungs of the university(and the world.)
    I'm sure tOSU gives a shit that some former band geeks are demanding his job back.