No jobs for grads
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-Society-
Classyposter58;1619650 wrote:Regional salesman in Detroit for Sheraton Hotels lol they want educated people
Again, you are full of it. Having been in the hotel industry for 10+ years now, 5 in upper management, no one is going to hire your straight out of college for a "Regional salesman" position. No one in the industry even uses that term for a sales position. If the position is only for booking events and groups at a hotel, there is nothing "regional" about it, and with absolutely no experience in hotels, they aren't hiring you.Classyposter58;1620634 wrote:Haha this isn't like that at all trust me. More of a corporate setting, salaried at over $50k and it's booking events and groups at a hotel
Which of the two Sheraton hotels in Detroit is this position at? -
Pick6
It's called having a life and not having a ton of time to go into depth. You should try getting one sometime.queencitybuckeye;1620604 wrote:Thank you for your usual level of insight. It added a lot to the discussion. -
SportsAndLady
He won't answer this because he's full of shit.-Society-;1620735 wrote:Again, you are full of it. Having been in the hotel industry for 10+ years now, 5 in upper management, no one is going to hire your straight out of college for a "Regional salesman" position. No one in the industry even uses that term for a sales position. If the position is only for booking events and groups at a hotel, there is nothing "regional" about it, and with absolutely no experience in hotels, they aren't hiring you.
Which of the two Sheraton hotels in Detroit is this position at?
I know two people in the exact same position he's talking about in 2 huge Chicago hotels...they don't make anywhere near 50k+ lol and that's in Chicago. -
-Society-
I recently moved to the suburbs of Chicago. I haven't researched much, but I'd imagine upper level sales managers are making 50k+ downtown. Director of Sales are definitely making well over that. Like you said, a Sales Manager (entry level), would be pushing to make that much downtown. I'd imagine they start between 30-40k.SportsAndLady;1620784 wrote:He won't answer this because he's full of shit.
I know two people in the exact same position he's talking about in 2 huge Chicago hotels...they don't make anywhere near 50k+ lol and that's in Chicago. -
Pick6
you can live off of that in chicago??-Society-;1620791 wrote:I recently moved to the suburbs of Chicago. I haven't researched much, but I'd imagine upper level sales managers are making 50k+ downtown. Director of Sales are definitely making well over that. Like you said, a Sales Manager (entry level), would be pushing to make that much downtown. I'd imagine they start between 30-40k. -
SportsAndLady
If you're not a dumbass, then yeah.Pick6;1620806 wrote:you can live off of that in chicago??
I see too many people who make 40k adn spend money like crazy. Just be smart with your expenses and you can stretch 30-40k in a big city. -
ZWICK 4 PREZ
If you only make 30-40k and live in a big city, you're an idiot and should move. -
SportsAndLady
No. If you will always make 30-40k then yeah maybe you should move somewhere cheaper.ZWICK 4 PREZ;1620825 wrote:If you only make 30-40k and live in a big city, you're an idiot and should move.
But everyone's gotta start somewhere and if you can go a year making 30-40k and then get a nice promotion you're not an idiot. -
like_that
Yup, those 30k-40k jobs are a way of getting into a big city.SportsAndLady;1620837 wrote:No. If you will always make 30-40k then yeah maybe you should move somewhere cheaper.
But everyone's gotta start somewhere and if you can go a year making 30-40k and then get a nice promotion you're not an idiot.
Also, Chicago is much cheaper than most big cities. -
ZWICK 4 PREZ
I'll agree with that. But you said you can live on 30-40k a year in a big city like thats your life.. you cant or you will be working your whole life.SportsAndLady;1620837 wrote:No. If you will always make 30-40k then yeah maybe you should move somewhere cheaper.
But everyone's gotta start somewhere and if you can go a year making 30-40k and then get a nice promotion you're not an idiot. -
-Society-
That's why a lot of those making 30-40k are commuting in from the suburbs, or even further. Do you think the entire city of Chicago is making 50k+?ZWICK 4 PREZ;1620857 wrote:I'll agree with that. But you said you can live on 30-40k a year in a big city like thats your life.. you cant or you will be working your whole life. -
SportsAndLady
I didn't mean you will be making 30k until you're 60 lolZWICK 4 PREZ;1620857 wrote:I'll agree with that. But you said you can live on 30-40k a year in a big city like thats your life.. you cant or you will be working your whole life.
I just meant you can live in the city (prob just Chicago of the 3 major metropolises) at 30-40k, it's definitely possible. -
derek bomar
I'd work a 2nd job if I made 40k in Chicago. -
Automatik
You'd be surprised. Lowballing someone's salary for entry/associate level jobs is very common here. Don't want to take it? Fine, the next person in line will. -
QuakerOats
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gut
It's not that unique. Fortune 500's recruit at targeted schools that are almost always top-50 programs. Claiming that students at top-50 programs don't have superior opportunities to select from is absolute BS. Thanks for links studying people graduating 25-40 years ago - I already said the opportunity and value in today's world of commoditized college degrees is vastly different. Nor do studies comparing elite schools with less-than-elite but still top programs refute what I said.OSH;1620696 wrote:Sure, there are unique places that hire out of certain areas. .
Without a connection, most students at non-core schools have little chance of scoring blue chip companies. It's not impossible to overcome that disadvantage, but it's difficult and a talented student would be foolish to subject themselves to that adversity. Seriously, going to East KY State over OSU is just flat stupid. Getting into a leadership devlepment program at a P&G or GE (and many other F500's) out of college is a big leg-up on your career, and those programs don't recruit from 3rd tier schools.
C'mon, it's one thing to say OSU vs. Harvard doesn't matter...it's cool to be a big fish in a small pond, but not when it's a cesspool that no one worth a damn fishes at. -
TiernanEven when my company does have openings and the dipshits in HR decide to waste it on hiring some dumbfuck under 30 its frequently only for a short time because these entitled pricks think starting out at 60k as an EE is beneath them and they are constantly looking for their next job where they might make 62k or be able to play hacky-sack or video games in the break room.
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OSH
I don't know how I missed replying to you...gut;1620970 wrote:It's not that unique. Fortune 500's recruit at targeted schools that are almost always top-50 programs. Claiming that students at top-50 programs don't have superior opportunities to select from is absolute BS. Thanks for links studying people graduating 25-40 years ago - I already said the opportunity and value in today's world of commoditized college degrees is vastly different. Nor do studies comparing elite schools with less-than-elite but still top programs refute what I said.
Without a connection, most students at non-core schools have little chance of scoring blue chip companies. It's not impossible to overcome that disadvantage, but it's difficult and a talented student would be foolish to subject themselves to that adversity. Seriously, going to East KY State over OSU is just flat stupid. Getting into a leadership devlepment program at a P&G or GE (and many other F500's) out of college is a big leg-up on your career, and those programs don't recruit from 3rd tier schools.
C'mon, it's one thing to say OSU vs. Harvard doesn't matter...it's cool to be a big fish in a small pond, but not when it's a cesspool that no one worth a damn fishes at.
But, apparently you don't like reading links (they were all recent links/studies). One of the links said that less than 9% of employers actually care where students went to school. Of course there are chosen organizations that like to hire certain graduates, I never disputed that (I may have even said that once). But, less than 9% of employers caring about the school of choice...that's pretty minimal. Especially considering how many schools, how many potential employees, and how many places of employment there are. So, that's roughly 28 million people whom employers actually "care" where they went to school at -- do we know where that is? Nope. You are right. They could be "non-core" schools. They could be international schools. They could be Ivy's. They could be B1G schools. Heck, they could be schools that are located in a specific state. There is no specification that the "caring" of school choice really means an "elite" school.
What's a "non-core" school? That doesn't make sense. I know of an engineering school that many prospective engineers don't even know of has a job placement of 90+%. I have tried to get a student to go there for 2 years, he's been caught up on going to some public state schools instead...he's finally done enough research to think it's a valid option.
If a student is relying on being recruited by a Fortune 500, or any company, they are only hurting themselves. That's pretty dumb. Same goes for any high school athlete who dreams of playing college athletics. Same goes for any college athlete who dreams of playing professionally. No matter the profession, you have to build your network and get yourself seen. You can build your network and get seen anywhere. It may be more challenging at some schools rather than others, but in the end...an individual has to sell themselves (on paper and in person).
If there are only certain [core] schools that are "worth it," then why are there 3,500+ schools producing top students AND valuable employees? Why not just have these certain "core" schools (whatever that means) and let everyone else be ditch diggers? -
gut
I read every one of your links, I'm not sure you did. The first was a study done on 1976 grads, or thereabouts, later updated to like 1993 I believe. Another compare Ivy League graduates with other well regarded state schools (read: not 3rd tier). None of those was particularly relevant to what I'm saying about going to a mediocre program TODAY.OSH;1622094 wrote:I don't know how I missed replying to you...
But, apparently you don't like reading links (they were all recent links/studies).
You're also missing the point. Where you went to school matters less as your career goes on, but those first opportunities provide progressively greater opportunities. Top entry-level jobs recruit from top programs...later on where you worked becomes more important than your degree, but HA! those early career opportunities have been heavily dependent on where you went to undergrad.
3500+ schools producing TOP students AND valuable employees? LOL, you are so out of touch. Yep, they are stocking plenty of mediocre staff positions. I'll say it again, there's been an explosion of programs and degrees and candidates, the ug degree doesn't have the same intrinisic value it did 25 years ago.
What kind of idiotic advice is it to tell someone there's no risk in going to a 3rd tier school where they'll have only a fraction, if any, of the blue-chip job opportunities? Once you start swimming in the pool of mediocrity it's increasingly harder to convince employers you aren't the typical "C" player in that universe. -
gut
This makes it pretty clear that you don't understand the process. Companies large and small have a targeted group of schools where they recruit almost exclusively for entry-level positions. You can still try to get your own interview, but the deck is overwhelmingly stacked against you, particularly if the company isn't local. "Non-core" means top jobs don't come there, and so you've chosen an uphill battle for yourself.OSH;1622094 wrote: What's a "non-core" school? That doesn't make sense.
Like I said, being a big fish in a small pond no one goes to isn't the best investment in terms of time and money. You don't have to go to Harvard, but you're foolish not to go to a nationally recognized top program, although sometimes regionally known programs can be stronger than more nationally recognized ones. -
OSH
gut;1622100 wrote:I read every one of your links, I'm not sure you did. The first was a study done on 1976 grads, or thereabouts, later updated to like 1993 I believe. Another compare Ivy League graduates with other well regarded state schools (read: not 3rd tier). None of those was particularly relevant to what I'm saying about going to a mediocre program TODAY.
You're also missing the point. Where you went to school matters less as your career goes on, but those first opportunities provide progressively greater opportunities. Top entry-level jobs recruit from top programs...later on where you worked becomes more important than your degree, but HA! those early career opportunities have been heavily dependent on where you went to undergrad.
3500+ schools producing TOP students AND valuable employees? LOL, you are so out of touch. Yep, they are stocking plenty of mediocre staff positions. I'll say it again, there's been an explosion of programs and degrees and candidates, the ug degree doesn't have the same intrinisic value it did 25 years ago.
What kind of idiotic advice is it to tell someone there's no risk in going to a 3rd tier school where they'll have only a fraction, if any, of the blue-chip job opportunities? Once you start swimming in the pool of mediocrity it's increasingly harder to convince employers you aren't the typical "C" player in that universe.
And I've said it time and time again, the school doesn't really matter -- outside of the few "top" potential employees or employers. Still, going to a "core" (use your terms) school doesn't guarantee getting a great career.gut;1622103 wrote:This makes it pretty clear that you don't understand the process. Companies large and small have a targeted group of schools where they recruit almost exclusively for entry-level positions. You can still try to get your own interview, but the deck is overwhelmingly stacked against you, particularly if the company isn't local. "Non-core" means top jobs don't come there, and so you've chosen an uphill battle for yourself.
Like I said, being a big fish in a small pond no one goes to isn't the best investment in terms of time and money. You don't have to go to Harvard, but you're foolish not to go to a nationally recognized top program, although sometimes regionally known programs can be stronger than more nationally recognized ones.
"Core" schools do a good job of producing regular employees as well. All schools have their individuals they graduate (or don't graduate) that go on and do whatever they want. At my institution now, our leading grill cook is a Yale grad. Why? Because he wanted more out of his life and it was helping college students -- it was his calling and he is a wonderful person to be around. Is that a knock on Yale, not at all...he's a top employee. A player I coached has a degree (actually two) from St. Andrew's in his 4 years there...he received a job at a nationwide company because of his brother who went to one of your "non-core" schools -- which most people have never heard of. Both are genius students and workers. I know plenty of OSU grads who have worked at UPS as box stackers or Lowe's as stockboys.
There is an unemployment rate from 1990-2013 for college grads around 4.3% (recent grads) and 2.9% (all grads). That's the average, the peak was around 7% and 5% (recent and all) in 2010. Still not a large unemployment rate for those with a degree. The underemployment rate (if that can be effectively done) has remained around 33% -- college grads holding jobs that do not require a college degree. With all of this information, it pretty much goes to show that the "no jobs for grads" is really a new phenomenon. Yes, there are some that are "underemployed" but for what reason? It's not shown that it's due to major OR school of choice. With numbers as low as they are for unemployment of recent grads and all grads, it's pretty safe to say that school doesn't matter and sometimes degree doesn't matter.
Of course, it is safe to say that certain employers do recruit from certain schools -- I've never hinted or said otherwise. So, if an individual wants to work at a certain company, they could go to the school that is recruited. At the same time, going to another school and doing the necessary things, the individual can work with the same organization.
You continue to talk about "top jobs." There are only so many students/employees/employers who qualify for those...so, for those positions, workers, and hiring processes, those individuals who qualify will come through, no matter where they come from -- "core" school, "non-core" school, internationally, or wherever. -
sleeper
Clueless is the best way to describe OSH's positions on school choice. It's no surprise he has 12 master's degrees from irrelevant institutions and he is employed by irrelevant institutions and is on here defending irrelevant institutions. Tell me more about how going to Phoenix doesn't matter and that you can work anywhere if you are driven enough. Sounds like something straight out of delusional magazine. -
QuakerOats
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Automatik
And who the fuck replies to these types of CNN polls?
The weak 59%? I don't buy into the "woe is me attitude." You want it, go and get it. Don't piss and moan through a fucking online poll.