Can Science and Religion co exist?

• gut

  isadore;1601140 wrote:gosh a ruddies
  fundamentalists are moronic as are anyone who defends them.
  atheists are soulless.

  Who's defending fundamentalists?
  
  And don't you have to believe in a soul to be soulless?
• isadore

  gut;1601141 wrote:Who's defending fundamentalists?
  
  And don't you have to believe in a soul to be soulless?

  gosh anyone who rejects evolution is an idiot. a duplicitious one if he\she claims not to be a fundamentalist. I am sure there are many others who are soulless but evangelical atheists definitely meet the bill. That is based on a personal encounter with folks attending atheist convention. Very icky folks.
• gut

  isadore;1601142 wrote:... I am sure there are many others who are soulless but evangelical atheists definitely meet the bill. That is based on a personal encounter with folks attending atheist convention. Very icky folks.

  Why would an evangelical atheist attend an atheist convention? That seems....inefficient.
• cruiser_96

  

  I thought it was "sole".
• HitsRus

  

  Why would an evangelical atheist attend an atheist convention? That seems....inefficient.

  because atheism is becoming an organized religion.

  I thought it was "sole".

  perhaps that was the fish that was used when Christ fed the masses....God has a sense of humor! : thumbup:
• pmoney25

  

  I think it is harder to explain why Christianity is right over the other two major religions who believe in the same GOD.
  
  Also why would GOD just pick a small portion of people to receive his message. Why not spread the same message to everyone all those years ago.
  
  That has been harder for me to accept than a GOD who created everything
• DeyDurkie5

  

  No proof to god, therefore you guys have no argument but faith. Simple as that.
• cruiser_96

  

  DeyDurkie5;1601169 wrote:No proof to god, therefore you guys have no argument but faith. Simple as that.

  Spontaneous generation. Thanks again.
• OSH

  

  pmoney25;1601166 wrote:I think it is harder to explain why Christianity is right over the other two major religions who believe in the same GOD.
  
  Also why would GOD just pick a small portion of people to receive his message. Why not spread the same message to everyone all those years ago.
  
  That has been harder for me to accept than a GOD who created everything

  Why Christianity is right over what other two major religions? Also, what small portion of people did He pick to receive His message?
  
  Just a couple of questions about your post...
• HitsRus

  

  No proof to god, therefore you guys have no argument but faith. Simple as that.

  No scientific proof can and will ever found either way....I've been saying that the whole thread. That's why religion and science can co-exist.
• HitsRus

  

  pmoney25;1601166 wrote:I think it is harder to explain why Christianity is right over the other two major religions who believe in the same GOD.
  
  Also why would GOD just pick a small portion of people to receive his message. Why not spread the same message to everyone all those years ago.
  
  That has been harder for me to accept than a GOD who created everything

  
  That is a man made fabrication/interpretation that has nothing to do with God.
  
  "other two major religions" ???? you are only referring to people of the "Book". No sense to exclude the other religions of the world.
• DeyDurkie5

  

  HitsRus;1601178 wrote:No scientific proof can and will ever found either way....I've been saying that the whole thread. That's why religion and science can co-exist.

  This entire thread has been religious/nonreligious people trying to prove their shit is right. No one knows. It's like guys with 3 inch dicks trying to argue who's is better. You both have 3 inch dicks, if you don't have a tongue from the heavens, you are most likely fucked in the bed.
• BoatShoes

  fish82;1599932 wrote:Perhaps there are.
  
  You could always take more than a 5 second Google search and actually post some, instead of some retired geologist's blog page. I know that sounds like work and stuff, tho. :laugh:

  I you want to spend your free time doing work to argue with a guy who believes that Dinosaurs hung out with humans be my guest.
• BoatShoes

  jmog;1599930 wrote:I guess when you can't win the argument with logical arguments and actual scientific knowledge you resort to calling those on the other side kooks, liars, idiots, morons, foolish, etc.
  
  Look at which side of this debate has done just that in this thread.
  
  I expect sleeper to not have the ability to have a rational/logical discussion about this type of topic because that is his "schtick", but some of the others like Boatshoes resorting to the ad hominem and character attacks are rather surprising.

  Life is too short to engage in reasoned debate with Young Earth Creationists when you believe that nonsense in the face of overwhelming empirical evidence against your position. If all of that evidence can't convince you, no argument I provide on this forum in my spare time is going to convince you. Just like it is a complete waste of time to argue with people who believe the Earth is flat, it is a complete waste of time to argue with Young Earth Creationists.
  
  I didn't debate the loons saying that the Earth was going to end on May 21st 2011. I just laughed at them and felt bad for their children. That's how I feel about Young Earth Creationists.
  
  You want to believe that a God created the universe and set the laws of physics into motion? Fine. But that God did it billions of years ago.
• isadore

  gut;1601145 wrote:Why would an evangelical atheist attend an atheist convention? That seems....inefficient.

  same reason evangelical Christians do. Get organized, stir up enthusiasm.
• pmoney25

  

  HitsRus;1601178 wrote:No scientific proof can and will ever found either way....I've been saying that the whole thread. That's why religion and science can co-exist.

  You do realize this line of thinking inevitably leads to some pretty ridiculous paths people can take.
• pmoney25

  

  HitsRus;1601180 wrote:That is a man made fabrication/interpretation that has nothing to do with God.
  
  "other two major religions" ???? you are only referring to people of the "Book". No sense to exclude the other religions of the world.

  Im not sure we are on opposite sides here. I never said that Science and God cant coexist.
  
  I just struggle with religion
  
  I
• fish82

  

  BoatShoes;1601183 wrote:I you want to spend your free time doing work to argue with a guy who believes that Dinosaurs hung out with humans be my guest.

  Or just throw out yet another strawman and walk away.
  
  Shocker. : thumbup:
• jmog

  BoatShoes;1601185 wrote:Life is too short to engage in reasoned debate with Young Earth Creationists when you believe that nonsense in the face of overwhelming empirical evidence against your position. If all of that evidence can't convince you, no argument I provide on this forum in my spare time is going to convince you. Just like it is a complete waste of time to argue with people who believe the Earth is flat, it is a complete waste of time to argue with Young Earth Creationists.
  
  I didn't debate the loons saying that the Earth was going to end on May 21st 2011. I just laughed at them and felt bad for their children. That's how I feel about Young Earth Creationists.
  
  You want to believe that a God created the universe and set the laws of physics into motion? Fine. But that God did it billions of years ago.

  Strawman logical fallacy.
  
  But it why would I expect anything less from you.
  
  Flat earth society, really? That's the best you can do? People who believe the earth is flat against direct pictures from space, you know direct observable science, you liken to young earth creationists who are not faced with ANY observational science.
  
  You keep trying to be funny with the dinosaurs and act like you are smarter than everyone else. But here goes.
  
  
  No one wants to talk about the fact that many dinosaur fossils have been found with soft tissue in it. Soft tissue is impossible if the bones are millions of years old.
  
  Explain how how the Bible, in the book of Job, exactly explains a brachiosaurus when the first dinosaur fossils were found in the 1800s and the book of Job was written many centuries BC?
  
  Explain MANY ancient cultures with artwork exactly depicting dinosaurs interacting with humans?
  
  Explain MANY cases of human fossilized footprints intermixed with dinosaur fossils and footprints?
  
  Why are these dismissed and ignored by "mainstream" scientists and media? Because it doesn't fit the narrative.
• HitsRus

  

  Im not sure we are on opposite sides here. I never said that Science and God cant coexist.
  
  I just struggle with religion

  Don't struggle with it. If you feel a need for a spiritual connection with god and /or the universe, then it is simply a matter of finding the vehicle that helps align your relationships with yourself and your actions, others around you, and God and his universe. Try not to get hung up on the man made aspects which may not work for you. Focus on the message and try to live in harmony with it. You'll know you're on the right track if you feel like you are a 'better person" because of it.
• BoatShoes

  jmog;1601206 wrote:Strawman logical fallacy.
  
  But it why would I expect anything less from you.
  
  Flat earth society, really? That's the best you can do? People who believe the earth is flat against direct pictures from space, you know direct observable science, you liken to young earth creationists who are not faced with ANY observational science.
  
  You keep trying to be funny with the dinosaurs and act like you are smarter than everyone else. But here goes.
  
  
  No one wants to talk about the fact that many dinosaur fossils have been found with soft tissue in it. Soft tissue is impossible if the bones are millions of years old.
  
  Explain how how the Bible, in the book of Job, exactly explains a brachiosaurus when the first dinosaur fossils were found in the 1800s and the book of Job was written many centuries BC?
  
  Explain MANY ancient cultures with artwork exactly depicting dinosaurs interacting with humans?
  
  Explain MANY cases of human fossilized footprints intermixed with dinosaur fossils and footprints?
  
  Why are these dismissed and ignored by "mainstream" scientists and media? Because it doesn't fit the narrative.

  LOL! Thank you!
  
  BTW I'm not "acting like I'm smarter than everyone." You're a plenty smart guy. You're just completely deluded by your emotional investment in Evangelical Christianity and Biblical Literalism that your reflective equilibrium will allow you to rationalize a totally ridiculous belief like Young Earth Creationism.
  
  And, here is your passage in Job that
  

  "exactly explains a brachiosaurus"

  40:15 Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.

  40:16 Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.
  40:17 He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.
  40:18 His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron.
  40:19 He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him.
  40:20 Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play.
  40:21 He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens.
  40:22 The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about.
  40:23 Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth.
  40:24 He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares.

  Yup. No doubt that "explains exactly a Brachiosaurus" LOL!
  
  But here's the truth. Crackpot ideas offered up by Young Earth Creationists are dismissed and ignored by real scientists because they are based on fairy tales and don't correspond with reality. Hope this helps.
• BoatShoes

  Oh and by the way Jmog, since there were Dinosaurs in the time of Job I take it you're officially going with the idea that Noah managed to get a Brachiosaurus on the Ark, eh???
• jmog

  BoatShoes;1601344 wrote:Oh and by the way Jmog, since there were Dinosaurs in the time of Job I take it you're officially going with the idea that Noah managed to get a Brachiosaurus on the Ark, eh???

  1. You are acting like you think you are smarter than everyone.
  2. You keep resorting to straw man arguments and it ruins your points.
  3. Tail like a cedar tree, mountains bring food (as in high up), large enough to drink up a whole river, strength/size in his legs and stomach, sounds like a primitive description of a brachiosaurus to me. What modern day animal would you say that describes oh wise one.
  4. You still haven't explained the fact that ancient art work in pottery etc shows dinosaurs with humans and interlinking fossils do exist.
  5. No one ever claimed 100% of the animals on the arc were full grown adults. Why couldn't baby dinosaurs, baby elephants, etc be chosen to save room. I know that would be way too hard to figure out right?
• isadore

  now that is funny.
• BoatShoes

  jmog;1601355 wrote:1. You are acting like you think you are smarter than everyone.
  2. You keep resorting to straw man arguments and it ruins your points.
  3. Tail like a cedar tree, mountains bring food (as in high up), large enough to drink up a whole river, strength/size in his legs and stomach, sounds like a primitive description of a brachiosaurus to me. What modern day animal would you say that describes oh wise one.
  4. You still haven't explained the fact that ancient art work in pottery etc shows dinosaurs with humans and interlinking fossils do exist.
  5. No one ever claimed 100% of the animals on the arc were full grown adults. Why couldn't baby dinosaurs, baby elephants, etc be chosen to save room. I know that would be way too hard to figure out right?

  1. It does not make me "a smart person" because I don't believe mythology actually happened! Jmog a smart person can believe totally ridiculous things. This is part of the Human Condition. You are smart person. You just believe totally ridiculous things like that there were baby dinosaurs taken onto a ship by a drunk so God could kill everybody with a flood and promise never to do it again with a rainbow.
  
  2. It's not a straw man because I was able to draw out of you the fact that you actually believe this stuff. You've revealed that your position is indeed that weak. Again, life is too short. There is very likely no magical after life in Heaven with Jesus just like it is very likely that there are not werewolves so I have to make the most of this one and I can't do that by arguing with people who think Noah carried a baby Brachiosaurus onto an Ark.
  
  3. Of Course that sounds like a dinosaur to you. You're talking about a made up story with multiple internal inconsistencies in the particular text of JOB that not to mention describes the Devil and God talking to eachother over playing with a man's life. It's all a bunch of mythology Jmog and didn't actually happen. Sorry. I don't care how Medusa was described before Perseus beheaded her and I don't care about the description of a "behemoth" in a poem about divine justice because I don't care to pretend that the events in that poem actually happened. It is fiction!
  
  4. There is a plausible explanation for all of that just like there is a plausible explanation for hieroglyphics of what appear to be space men or UFO's. Maybe the History Channel should run a show called "Ancient Dinosaurs" with a bunch of Young Earth Creationists describing where and how Dinosaurs walked among us the same way they do with Aliens. Then the channel would really jump the shark even more so than it already has. There is not enough time in the day and you would not be convinced anyways.
  

  No one ever claimed 100% of the animals on the arc were full grown adults. Why couldn't baby dinosaurs, baby elephants, etc be chosen to save room. I know that would be way too hard to figure out right?

  5. LOL! /Thread. Why didn't I think about that???
  
  
  Here's the bottom line. Religion and science can co-exist in the right way. Great historical figures like Aquinas for example greatly expounded upon natural theology. But, Young Earth Creationism is not one of those examples and those Christians who are committed to science and reason should shun Young Earth Creationists from the public square just like they shun Harold Camping, Benny Hinn and all of the other charlatans.