Does music actually get worse?

• Mohican00

  

  Popular music is, by definition, appealing to a broad range of people.

  but one direction is popular music yet it appeals to preteen/teenage girls. I don't consider that a broad range
  

  Truly good music tends to transcend genres and personal preferences - most people know good music when they hear it, even if it isn't their favorite thing

  That completely removes personal subjectivity from the equation and makes assumptions which dilutes the reality.
  
  This argument isn't new - popular music is popular because it is inherently good and people across all swaths are going to like it and that justifies the music being considered good. And like I said, that eliminates personal interpretation, makes broad generalizations and simplifies the issue. Just because something is pleasing to a lot of people does not mean that it is good. That ignores originality and construction which leads to stale, run of the mill top 40 hits......which is a problem with your popular music.
  
  As for the hipster, you've never heard of this band elitism....yeah that exists, it's pretty easy to spot (i.e. people who like Merzbow and Trout Mask Replica), but who are you to say that fringe, unpopular acts can't be enjoyed by people? That's kind of elitist in itself
• Glory Days

  

  Mohican00;1553871 wrote:I'm not a fan of theirs but there is no doubt in my mind Hot Fuss will be highly regarded in 50 years
  
  edit: muse sucks, their shit all sounds the same

  who?
• sportchampps

  In 50 years I think a few bands have a chance.
  
  The Killers
  The Black Keys
  Jack White Solo ( white stripes were 97)
  Arcade Fire
  Kayne West ( I hate him)
  Alabama Shakes
  Adele
  Lady Gaga ( the new Madonna)
  eminem
  Bon Iver
  Arctic monkeys
• sportchampps

  Hot fuss is the killers album
• Glory Days

  

  Mohican00;1553916 wrote: Just because something is pleasing to a lot of people does not mean that it is good. That ignores originality and construction which leads to stale, run of the mill top 40 hits......which is a problem with your popular music.

  but because something is different than the run of the mill top 40 hits, doesn't make it good music either. if it was good music, it would become popular and rise to the top. I am not denying record labels and marketing doesn't have a lot to do with your "top 40 list", but if enough people liked that outside the box "original" music, wouldn't those big record companies want to make a piece of that profit? or let me guess, those bands don't want to make it big and prefer playing in shit hole bars and venues?
• Glory Days

  

  sportchampps;1553922 wrote:Hot fuss is the killers album

  who?
  
  haha my GF listens to a lot of stuff I haven't heard of, and I still haven't heard of these guys.
• Mohican00

  

  Glory Days;1553924 wrote:but because something is different than the run of the mill top 40 hits, doesn't make it good music either. if it was good music, it would become popular and rise to the top. I am not denying record labels and marketing doesn't have a lot to do with your "top 40 list", but if enough people liked that outside the box "original" music, wouldn't those big record companies want to make a piece of that profit? or let me guess, those bands don't want to make it big and prefer playing in shit hole bars and venues?

  Never said fringe music was good music. But there is stuff off the radar that I enjoy, and maybe....you might too.
  
  And I hate to bring him up but by your logic, Justin Bieber is the greatest thing going.......popular, rose to the top.
  
  So tell me, when did you become a Belieber?
• sportchampps

  Coldplay released their first cd pretty close to 2000 maybe 1999.
  
  
  Not knowing the killers really hurts your music credibility. They have 7 Grammy nominations and hot fuss alone sold 7 million albums
• dlazz

  I know the Killers, and don't think they belong in the conversation
• Mohican00

  

  sportchampps;1553934 wrote:Coldplay released their first cd pretty close to 2000 maybe 1999.
  
  
  Noy yo knowing the killers really hurts your music credibility. They have 7 Grammy nominations and hot fuss alone sold 7 million albums

  Parachutes, Coldplay's first album, came out in 2000. I was going to mention them in response to pmoney's "who is the most popular rock band of the new millennium" but didn't want to get into a shitfest about whether or not coldplay is a rock band
• Classyposter58

  

  I think actually music is becoming less and less mainstream overall, with modern communications, social media, and the plain individualistic nature of our society that has really taken off since the 80s, we'll wind up here in about 20 years with it everywhere but as a whole popular music is being phased out I think truly. I do not think we can get anymore rhythm oriented in the style than we already are, compared to in the early 20th century we had a world where everything was melody driven.
  
  Also consider the emergence of foreign powers such as China and India, as they grow in size and influence, soon they will begin to change the way music sounds in the west and create very different sounds than we're accustomed to hearing, well maybe more so from India because China is becoming much too western
• dlazz

  Classyposter58;1553943 wrote:I think actually music is becoming less and less mainstream overall

  you are wrong
• gut

  Mohican00;1553916 wrote: but who are you to say that fringe, unpopular acts can't be enjoyed by people? That's kind of elitist in itself

  got anymore strawman arguments you'd like to construct?
  
  No one ever said that the music isn't good, if you like that particular genre. However, most genres have enough broad appeal to be popular if the music is truly good. But your preference for that particular group/genre probably overrates the true quality.
  
  You talk about young/teenage girls with people like Bieber and other groups - that's still a really huge segment. Not to remotely suggest it is "good" music, but trying to claim music that appeals to a very small group of people is good is a bit of a stretch. Good music rarely has such limited appeal.
  
  You act like there's some magic formula or secret to making "popular" junk music. But the fact is for every Bieber there are hundreds of people just like him that flopped. I don't care for the genre, but to say it's complete crap is a rather subjective judgement. We can say we don't like the genre, but Bieber is clearly one of the good groups in that genre. And I would suggest some groups you might like would be similarly considered garbage by people who don't care much for the genre.
• Glory Days

  

  sportchampps;1553934 wrote:Coldplay released their first cd pretty close to 2000 maybe 1999.
  
  
  Not knowing the killers really hurts your music credibility. They have 7 Grammy nominations and hot fuss alone sold 7 million albums

  Weird Al Yankovic had 14 nominations and won 3.
• Automatik

  

  dlazz;1553946 wrote:you are wrong

  I'm with you. Rollling Stone's top albums of 2013....
  
  20. Laura Marling - Once I was an Eagle
  19. NIN - Hesitation Marks
  18. Ashley Monroe - Like a Rose
  17. Danny Brown - Old
  16. David Bowie - The Next Day
  15. Atoms for Peace - Amok
  14. Drake - Nothing was the Same
  13. Disclosure - Settle
  12. Jake Bugg - Jake Bugg
  11. Parquet Courts - Light Up Gold
  10. John Fogerty - Wrote a Song for Everyone
  09. Arctic Monkeys - AM
  08. The National - Trouble Will Find Me
  07. Lorde - Pure Heroin
  06. Queens of the Stone Age - ...like Clockwork
  05. Arcade Fire - Reflektor
  04. Paul McCartney - New
  03. Daft Punk - Random Access Memories
  02. Kanye West - Yeezus
  01. Vampire Weekend - Modern Vampires of the City
  
  Full list of the top 50: LINK
• sportchampps

  Saying werid al won three Grammys to try and discount saying who about the killers is dumb. Werid al won his in the comedy area which has very little to do with music
• thavoice

  Automatik;1554017 wrote:I'm with you. Rollling Stone's top albums of 2013....
  
  20. Laura Marling - Once I was an Eagle
  19. NIN - Hesitation Marks
  18. Ashley Monroe - Like a Rose
  17. Danny Brown - Old
  16. David Bowie - The Next Day
  15. Atoms for Peace - Amok
  14. Drake - Nothing was the Same
  13. Disclosure - Settle
  12. Jake Bugg - Jake Bugg
  11. Parquet Courts - Light Up Gold
  10. John Fogerty - Wrote a Song for Everyone
  09. Arctic Monkeys - AM
  08. The National - Trouble Will Find Me
  07. Lorde - Pure Heroin
  06. Queens of the Stone Age - ...like Clockwork
  05. Arcade Fire - Reflektor
  04. Paul McCartney - New
  03. Daft Punk - Random Access Memories
  02. Kanye West - Yeezus
  01. Vampire Weekend - Modern Vampires of the City
  
  Full list of the top 50: LINK

  Wow. I have heard of 5 of those artists, NIN, Bowie, Fogerty, McCartney and asshole KW.
• Automatik

  

  I've heard of most of them. I was glad to see Disclosure got some recognition...I'm a big fan.
• Mohican00

  

  gut;1553948 wrote:got anymore strawman arguments you'd like to construct?
  
  No one ever said that the music isn't good, if you like that particular genre. However, most genres have enough broad appeal to be popular if the music is truly good. But your preference for that particular group/genre probably overrates the true quality.
  
  You talk about young/teenage girls with people like Bieber and other groups - that's still a really huge segment. Not to remotely suggest it is "good" music, but trying to claim music that appeals to a very small group of people is good is a bit of a stretch. Good music rarely has such limited appeal.
  
  You act like there's some magic formula or secret to making "popular" junk music. But the fact is for every Bieber there are hundreds of people just like him that flopped. I don't care for the genre, but to say it's complete crap is a rather subjective judgement. We can say we don't like the genre, but Bieber is clearly one of the good groups in that genre. And I would suggest some groups you might like would be similarly considered garbage by people who don't care much for the genre.

  strawman....lol, seems to be the OC's buzzword for any contrarian position. Anyway...
  
  I'm just taking everything you said and laying it out there: music + huge appeal = good.
  

  but trying to claim music that appeals to a very small group of people is good is a bit of a stretch. Good music rarely has such limited appeal.

  music - huge appeal = it can't be that good.....if we're throwing out logical fallacies, how about your circular reasoning that popular music is good music because it is is popular. Plus, how you can you just broadly dismiss or not even give a chance to said music without even giving it a chance?
  

  But the fact is for every Bieber there are hundreds of people just like him that flopped

  Sure, some people/acts are good at it, some aren't. Just the way the world works
  
  At least when I say popular music is crap I give reasons (formulaic, stale, rehashed). Now, is that to say I don't find some popular music catchy and enjoyable? Absolutely not, I played the shit out of a few Foster the People songs last year. Now we're any of those songs off I enjoyed off of classic, complete albums? Shit that's gonna be talked about 50 years from now? No......and add this to the list of my gripes about popular music, consistency.
  
  You can like whatever you want, IDGAF, but to casually dismiss less mainstream works as not good is premature when I'm wondering if you have ever given said artists a chance
• Mohican00

  

  Automatik;1554017 wrote:I'm with you. Rollling Stone's top albums of 2013....
  
  20. Laura Marling - Once I was an Eagle
  19. NIN - Hesitation Marks
  18. Ashley Monroe - Like a Rose
  17. Danny Brown - Old
  16. David Bowie - The Next Day
  15. Atoms for Peace - Amok
  14. Drake - Nothing was the Same
  13. Disclosure - Settle
  12. Jake Bugg - Jake Bugg
  11. Parquet Courts - Light Up Gold
  10. John Fogerty - Wrote a Song for Everyone
  09. Arctic Monkeys - AM
  08. The National - Trouble Will Find Me
  07. Lorde - Pure Heroin
  06. Queens of the Stone Age - ...like Clockwork
  05. Arcade Fire - Reflektor
  04. Paul McCartney - New
  03. Daft Punk - Random Access Memories
  02. Kanye West - Yeezus
  01. Vampire Weekend - Modern Vampires of the City
  
  Full list of the top 50: LINK

  Not a bad list for Rolling Stone. I'd say it's every bit as good as Pitchfork's best of 2013. Still don't know why the love for Yeezus
  
  10. Phosphorescent - Muchacho
  9. Daft Punk - Random Access Memories
  8. Deafheaven - Sunbather
  7. Darkside - Psychic
  6. Burial - Rival Dealer
  5. My Bloody Valentine - m b v
  4. Disclosure - Settle
  3. Arcade Fire - Reflektor
  2. Vampire Weekend - Modern Vampires of the City
  1. Kanye West - Yeezus
  
• reclegend22

  

  Classyposter58;1553943 wrote:Also consider the emergence of foreign powers such as China and India, as they grow in size and influence, soon they will begin to change the way music sounds in the west and create very different sounds than we're accustomed to hearing, well maybe more so from India because China is becoming much too western

  That sounds like something I once heard in an Asian pop music class. I took one when I was at BGSU to fill some ridiculous requirement or another because I'd heard the class was easy as shit. My final paper for that course was titled "Public Enemies: How Godzilla, Mothra and Chuck D Helped Forge a Hip-Hop Revolution in Japan." It consisted of 12 pages of complete nonsense interwoven with big words and Asian slang. That class was the worst thing I've ever willingly participated in, by a wide margin.
  
  My ultimate observation from that class is that if Western music ever begins to sound Asian then music can officially be declared dead.
  
  [video=youtube;yzC4hFK5P3g][/video]
• Iliketurtles

  

  thavoice;1554165 wrote:Wow. I have heard of 5 of those artists, NIN, Bowie, Fogerty, McCartney and asshole KW.

  You haven't heard of Arcade Fire? You should give them a chance they are pretty decent.
• Scarlet_Buckeye

  

  I find myself hating today's music more & more. Even Drake's stuff recently has been terrible, and I consider Drake to be 1 of my 3 favorite rappers (along with Kanye and Kid Cudi).
  
  When you stop and listen to music like Led Zeppelin, it's really hard to argue "music today is good/great". It's just not even a fair debate.
• Automatik

  

  I've said it many times...
  
  Good, great, excellent music is out there.
• Classyposter58

  

  reclegend22;1554198 wrote:That sounds like something I once heard in an Asian pop music class. I took one when I was at BGSU to fill some ridiculous requirement or another because I'd heard the class was easy as shit. My final paper for that course was titled "Public Enemies: How Godzilla, Mothra and Chuck D Helped Forge a Hip-Hop Revolution in Japan." It consisted of 12 pages of complete nonsense interwoven with big words and Asian slang. That class was the worst thing I've ever willingly participated in, by a wide margin.
  
  My ultimate observation from that class is that if Western music ever begins to sound Asian then music can officially be declared dead.
  
  [video=youtube;yzC4hFK5P3g][/video]

  Ha it's the BGSU connection I guess