MIT Shooting/Bombing Suspect Manhunt - Suspect 1: DEAD, Suspect 2: In Custody

• reclegend22

  

  Mulva;1430775 wrote:... which makes me think something should have been done better. I have no idea what you're arguing.

  My question would be why did they think the most wanted man in the world would remain in that same general area of where he set off a bomb and exchanged gunfire with police in a shootout, after he escaped them?
  
  Of course he was going to try to use the disguise of darkness in the next few hours to get as far away from the epicenter of his crimes as possible.
• Mulva

  

  WebFire;1430776 wrote:So you think the perimeter should have been bigger?

  Either the perimeter wasn't big enough or the barricade wasn't strong enough.
  
  There's no way a wounded wanted terrorist should escape a firefight with law enforcement. There's no way to make that not a problem. If there wasn't enough law enforcement on hand within 10 miles of a major terrorist attack, that's a problem. If they didn't respond appropriately, that's a problem. If they didn't form a strong enough barricade, that's a problem. If they didn't establish an appropriate perimeter, that's a problem.
  
  I'm not sure how I can make my argument more clear for you?
• gut

  reclegend22;1430773 wrote:Hiding inside that boat was actually pretty ingenious.

  Or just dumb luck. He apparently gave himself away leaving the bloody clothes by an open door, that kind of puts a hole in your theory of being highly skilled/trained.
• WebFire

  Mulva;1430778 wrote:Either the perimeter wasn't big enough or the barricade wasn't strong enough.
  
  There's no way a wounded wanted terrorist should escape a firefight with law enforcement. There's no way to make that not a problem. If there wasn't enough law enforcement on hand within 10 miles of a major terrorist attack, that's a problem. If they didn't respond appropriately, that's a problem. If they didn't form a strong enough barricade, that's a problem. If they didn't establish an appropriate perimeter, that's a problem.
  
  I'm not sure how I can make my argument more clear for you?

  I'm starting to think first responders across the nation should just log in to the OC when they have questions.
• reclegend22

  

  gut;1430779 wrote:Or just dumb luck. He apparently gave himself away leaving the bloody clothes by an open door, that kind of puts a hole in your theory of being highly skilled/trained.

  To his credit, he was probably nearing shock by the time he found the boat and not really thinking about the stains of blood. He was probably fighting for his life at that point, which makes his furtiveness in those final hours and ability to locate a strong and reliable hiding spot all the more impressive in retrospect.
• Mulva

  

  WebFire;1430780 wrote:I'm starting to think first responders across the nation should just log in to the OC when they have questions.

  Right. Because every local and federal law enforcement resource available can't reasonably be expected to hold 1 (yes, 1) 19 year old terrorist suspect in check within a known area after a firefight with other cops. That's a strategy that could only be made after the fact.
  
  What are you saying about the situation? "Kudos to law enforcement for following up on call from civilian outside of their perimeter saying 'Hey! terrorist is in my boat!'"
• reclegend22

  

  Bottom line. This teenage kid, for about 24 hours, got the better of 10,000 FBI, police and military personnel whose sole jobs were to capture him, the most wanted man in the world. It took an ordinary citizen going outside to smoke a cigarette to find spots of blood on his sidewalk in order to solve this case, while the 10,000 agents, helicopters and army tanks furiously searched the streets of Boston two blocks away.
  
  Toy with them is what he did.
• gut

  reclegend22;1430783 wrote:...He was probably fighting for his life at that point....

  The fact that he's still alive nearly a day later...I'm going to say no. He may have had a plan, and then kind of lost it after the adrenaline wore off. But I don't know about survival instinct - he's pretty much crawling in there waiting to die or to be caught.
• OSH

  

  I want Mulva and reclegend22 to be consultants for every law enforcement agency in the country. They obviously know how to do it better. Especially since all the perimeters and operations of the agencies involved in the whole ordeal have publicly displayed every aspect of their practices since the Boston bombing happened.
  
  The information the law enforcement agencies had in the time dealt with locations near the Boston Public Library, UMass Dartmouth, MIT, and Watertown. That is around 72 miles of distance from each place -- in total. I can only imagine that it is a simple ordeal in maintaining a proper perimeter. Take out UMass Dartmouth, you still have 14 miles of road you are tracking -- not the perimeter though. Add in the surrounding areas, I am sure it is a simple procedure to ensure nothing or no one escapes. You guys are truly unbelievable thinking you have it all figured out.
  
  Please tell me you have experience in it. I hope your experience is more than being armchair analysts through Twitter, FOXNews, ABCNews, CNN, MSNBC, and the like...
  
  Unbelievable. Complaining about it taking 22 hours to capture this guy.
• Mulva

  

  OSH;1430790 wrote:I want Mulva and reclegend22 to be consultants for every law enforcement agency in the country. They obviously know how to do it better. Especially since all the perimeters and operations of the agencies involved in the whole ordeal have publicly displayed every aspect of their practices since the Boston bombing happened.
  
  The information the law enforcement agencies had in the time dealt with locations near the Boston Public Library, UMass Dartmouth, MIT, and Watertown. That is around 72 miles of distance from each place -- in total. I can only imagine that it is a simple ordeal in maintaining a proper perimeter. Take out UMass Dartmouth, you still have 14 miles of road you are tracking -- not the perimeter though. Add in the surrounding areas, I am sure it is a simple procedure to ensure nothing or no one escapes. You guys are truly unbelievable thinking you have it all figured out.
  
  Please tell me you have experience in it. I hope your experience is more than being armchair analysts through Twitter, FOXNews, ABCNews, CNN, MSNBC, and the like...
  
  Unbelievable. Complaining about it taking 22 hours to capture this guy.

  a) he was captured because he was discovered by a civilian outside of the law enforcement perimeter, not because of stellar police work, and
  b) my complaint is that he escaped the firefight Thursday night/broke that barricade to begin with, not how long it took them to catch him afterward
  
  I didn't say I had anything figured out, let alone everything. I openly admitted I had no idea what the barricade or perimeters were. But there still isn't a single thing you can say to make me think that 10,000 officers, including the federal government, shouldn't do a better job of locking down 1 wounded suspect after a terrorist bombing and officer shootout.
• reclegend22

  

  Mulva;1430793 wrote:a) he was captured because he was discovered by a civilian outside of the law enforcement perimeter, not because of stellar police work, and
  b) my complaint is that he escaped the firefight Thursday night/broke that barricade to begin with, not how long it took them to catch him afterward
  
  I didn't say I had anything figured out, let alone everything. I openly admitted I had no idea what the barricade or perimeters were. But there still isn't a single thing you can say to make me think that 10,000 officers, including the federal government, shouldn't do a better job of locking down 1 wounded suspect after a terrorist bombing and officer shootout.

  These are my main areas of concern as well.
  
  First, a teenager -- who is at the top of the FBI's Most Wanted list -- is encircled by one to two dozen police officers in a shoot-out. He escapes on foot. Second, while the 10,000 armed agents, helicopters and army tanks furiously search the streets of Boston two blocks away for almost 24 hours, it takes a civilian going out to smoke a cigarette on his patio to discover a spot of blood in order to solve the case and locate the most at-large terrorist in the world. I simply find it comical.
• OSH

  

  Mulva;1430793 wrote:a) he was captured because he was discovered by a civilian outside of the law enforcement perimeter, not because of stellar police work, and
  b) my complaint is that he escaped the firefight Thursday night/broke that barricade to begin with, not how long it took them to catch him afterward
  
  I didn't say I had anything figured out, let alone everything. I openly admitted I had no idea what the barricade or perimeters were. But there still isn't a single thing you can say to make me think that 10,000 officers, including the federal government, shouldn't do a better job of locking down 1 wounded suspect after a terrorist bombing and officer shootout.

  I know how he was captured.
  
  I am sure you have been in a firefight before and paid attention to everything in the process. We have NO clue what had happened or what was known. There was hundreds of square miles that had to be checked. They were checking and checking and checking. What else could they have done?
  
  MIT and Watertown are 5+ miles apart. I am sure it is easy to keep track of people in that radius. While that shootout happened, one suspect died and police officers were shot. An SUV was taken and driven at the police officers -- suspect even drove over his brother. The shootout happened in the morning of April 19 and suspect 2 was apprehended in the evening. Man...that is awful that it took a few hours to get him. I mean, c'mon Boston's Finest...there is only 4.2 square miles and 30,000+ people to sift through to find a 19-year-old boy! How dare you take so much time. DO BETTER!
• OSH

  

  reclegend22;1430795 wrote:These are my main areas of concern as well.
  
  First, a teenager -- who is at the top of the FBI's Most Wanted list -- is encircled by one to two dozen police officers in a shoot-out. He escapes on foot. Second, while the 10,000 armed agents, helicopters and army tanks furiously search the streets of Boston two blocks away for almost 24 hours, it takes a civilian going out to smoke a cigarette on his patio to discover a spot of blood in order to solve the case and locate the most at-large terrorist in the world. I simply find it comical.

  You can't even be an armchair analyst properly! He escaped in an SUV. He drove at officers and even ran over his brother.
  
  C'mon. Get it right. This is the second MAJOR flaw in your whole argument. It took 2 days first, now he just "escapes on foot" and is wounded, and 10,000 agents can't find him. Please, just quit. The guy is apprehended. It's over. There will be a report about it. Find it when it is released. Then critique it. Because you know better.
  
  I find that comical. And sad. Mostly sad.
• Mulva

  

  OSH;1430797 wrote:There was hundreds of square miles that had to be checked. They were checking and checking and checking. What else could they have done?

  Last time I'm expressing my opinion on this, I'll put it in caps in hopes that it will help - PREVENT HIM FROM BREAKING THE POLICE BARRICADE AND ESCAPING ON FOOT AFTER THE SHOOTOUT SO THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO CHECK HUNDREDS OF SQUARE MILES.
• OSH

  

  Mulva;1430800 wrote:Last time I'm expressing my opinion on this, I'll put it in caps in hopes that it will help - PREVENT HIM FROM BREAKING THE POLICE BARRICADE AND ESCAPING ON FOOT AFTER THE SHOOTOUT SO THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO CHECK HUNDREDS OF SQUARE MILES.

  He didn't escape on foot! That squashes your opinion. We also do not know how long he drove his SUV before he got out and ran/hid.
  
  And, maybe the police should be applauded for "injuring" him in the shootout. That prevented him from doing any other damage. Then, they have to have the proper procedures in order to go door-to-door in a 4.2 square mile and 30,000+ populated area. They don't just chase and start knocking. Safety and less casualties is the main concern for law enforcement. They can't just go guns-blazing and searching for the suspect.
• reclegend22

  

  OSH;1430799 wrote:You can't even be an armchair analyst properly! He escaped in an SUV. He drove at officers and even ran over his brother.
  
  C'mon. Get it right. This is the second MAJOR flaw in your whole argument. It took 2 days first, now he just "escapes on foot" and is wounded, and 10,000 agents can't find him. Please, just quit. The guy is apprehended. It's over. There will be a report about it. Find it when it is released. Then critique it. Because you know better.
  
  I find that comical. And sad. Mostly sad.

  Major flaws? Lol. Bottom line. A teenage kid, A TERRORIST AND THE MOST WANTED MAN ON THE PLANET, was encircled by Boston's Finest who were armed to the teeth, and he simply ran right by them, whether by car or foot. For your information, he actually fled on foot.
  
  Read it here: http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/boston-mit-shooting-explosion-suspect-watertown-064355149.html
  
  He may have ran over his brother, but he ditched the vehicle almost immediately and ran from the police on his toes.
• Mulva

  

  OSH;1430801 wrote:He didn't escape on foot! That squashes your opinion. We also do not know how long he drove his SUV before he got out and ran/hid.
  
  And, maybe the police should be applauded for "injuring" him in the shootout. That prevented him from doing any other damage. Then, they have to have the proper procedures in order to go door-to-door in a 4.2 square mile and 30,000+ populated area. They don't just chase and start knocking. Safety and less casualties is the main concern for law enforcement. They can't just go guns-blazing and searching for the suspect.

  Every single source I've seen says he fled on foot. But if I'm wrong about that I apologize.
• reclegend22

  

  Mulva;1430804 wrote:Every single source I've seen says he fled on foot. But if I'm wrong about that I apologize.

  You will not need to apologize. OSH is wrong.
  

  CBS News wrote:Police say Tsarnaev escaped on foot early Friday after escaping a gun battle in which explosives were lobbed at police and in which his older brother, also a suspect in the Marathon bombing, was killed.

  http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57580537/shots-heard-near-last-location-of-boston-bombing-suspect/
• Mulva

  

  Head of Massachussetts state police:
  
  Alben says police are convinced that Dzhokhar Tsarnaev has left the neighborhood of Watertown, Massachusetts.
  
  "He abandoned a car that was used in the car chase," Alben said. But he did not flee in a vehicle. "He did it on foot. He fled on foot. I don't know where he went specifically after that.
  
  But now I'm officially done. Obviously the important thing is that he was caught. Even better than he's caught alive.
• reclegend22

  

  I find OSH's fierce determination despite not knowing what he's talking about comical. And sad. Sad mostly.
• reclegend22

  

  Need any more links, OSH, or will five be enough?
• OSH

  

  reclegend22;1430802 wrote:Major flaws? Lol. Bottom line. A teenage kid, A TERRORIST AND THE MOST WANTED MAN ON THE PLANET, was encircled by Boston's Finest who were armed to the teeth, and he simply ran right by them, whether by car or foot. For your information, he actually fled on foot.
  
  Read it here: http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/boston-mit-shooting-explosion-suspect-watertown-064355149.html
  
  He may have ran over his brother, but he ditched the vehicle almost immediately and ran from the police on his toes.

  Bottom line: the different agencies stopped these guys from doing more damage. They were able to kill one and wound another. We have no idea how many grenades and other explosives were utilized during the firefight. With the darkness and smoke and confusion, I am sure it wasn't easy to keep an eye on where an individual was going. Especially when an SUV is driving at you. Bottom line: no one on this board that is posting was there or knows how to do this properly. Quit criticizing.
  

  reclegend22;1430805 wrote:You will not need to apologize. OSH is wrong.
  
  http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57580537/shots-heard-near-last-location-of-boston-bombing-suspect/

  Oh ok.
  

  One witness of the firefight in which Tamerlan was mortally wounded said the younger brother made his getaway in an SUV and that he ran over Tamerlan's body as he fled.

  Reference
  

  reportedly run over by his younger brother

  One witness of the firefight in which Tamerlan was mortally wounded said the younger brother made his getaway in an SUV and that he ran over Tamerlan's body as he fled.

  Reference
  

  19-year-old Dzhokhar, jumped behind the wheel of a black SUV the two hand allegedly carjacked earlier and barreled toward the group. Officers who were restraining Tamerlan Tsarnaev got out of the way of the speeding vehicle, which ended up driving over the wounded suspect,

  Reference
  

  One witness of the firefight in which Tamerlan Tsarnaev was mortally wounded said the younger brother made his getaway in an SUV and that he ran over Tamerlan’s body as he fled.

  
  Reference
  

  It has been widely reproted that Dzhokhar Tsarnaev drove over his brother's body as he fled police during that incident.

  Reference
  

  Last night we heard that Dzhokhar had backed over his brother Tamerlan before escaping in a stolen SUV, and eventually leaving the vehicle and fleeing on foot.

  Reference
  
  
  NSFW photo of autopsy of Tamerlan.
  
  [SP][/SP]
• OSH

  

  Mulva;1430806 wrote:Head of Massachussetts state police:
  
  Alben says police are convinced that Dzhokhar Tsarnaev has left the neighborhood of Watertown, Massachusetts.
  
  "He abandoned a car that was used in the car chase," Alben said. But he did not flee in a vehicle. "He did it on foot. He fled on foot. I don't know where he went specifically after that.
  
  But now I'm officially done. Obviously the important thing is that he was caught. Even better than he's caught alive.

  You even cited it: "he abandoned a car that was used in the car chase." He clearly did escape in an SUV. Then he left it.
  
  We do not know how far he drove the SUV after the shootout. I am sure you know, because you know how to properly find criminals in 4.2 square miles and in a 30,000+ population.
  

  reclegend22;1430807 wrote:I find OSH's fierce determination despite not knowing what he's talking about comical. And sad. Sad mostly.

  Determination? No, it's just tired of hearing you guys think you know how to do it better. It's awful. Criticizing these guys for doing their job and apprehending both suspects <strike>within 2 days</strike> less than 22 hours in the manhunt.
  

  reclegend22;1430808 wrote:Need any more links, OSH, or will five be enough?

  Is six links enough to show that he did evade the shootout in an SUV?
• reclegend22

  

  Police say Tsarnaev escaped on foot early Friday after escaping a gun battle in which explosives were lobbed at police and in which his older brother, also a suspect in the Marathon bombing, was killed.
  
  -CBS NEWS
  
  http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57580537/shots-heard-near-last-location-of-boston-bombing-suspect/
  &#8203;
• Classyposter58

  

  Yeah I thought the same thing as rec. They were involved in shootouts with him yet he kept escaping? How is that possible, they had tanks and 10,000 men! Seriously that's like an entire Mud Hens game crowd of police searching for a single man, and he kept eluding them while engaging. It wasn't like he was somewhere among the crowd, he was actively shooting back