Religion
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Dr Winston O'Boogie
It is impossible to know either way. Whether you believe in God or are an athiest, there is a leap of faith involved. Specific to religion - and I refer to organized religioni here - in addition to a vehicle to answering philisophical questions, it also satisfies the basic human need to belong to a community. Organized athiest groups do the exact same thing. What the people who file into the pews at St. Matthew's on Sunday morning get from being in each other's midst is the exact same thing that the people who atted the Freedom from Religion annual meeting are after - companionship with their fellow, like minded man.
Simplifying the debate as is done on both sides is a red flag to me. The religious who damn me to hell for questioning God's existence are equally ignorant as the elitist athiest who calls my faith a sign or stupidity. Both these types fall into the category of people who are threatened by whatever is different. This, and not religion itself, is the cause of most human conflict.
The fact is that with today's technology, no one can prove the right anwer. -
WebFire
Where did God come from then?SnotBubbles;1384565 wrote:
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justincredible
I feel bad for the people that need a reason to not steal, kill, etc.dlazz;1384714 wrote:I think it was brought up to "ground" people so that people didn't run around killing one another. It gives people an initiative to do good and not steal, kill, etc. -
ZWICK 4 PREZ
Whats your reason not to?justincredible;1385041 wrote:I feel bad for the people that need a reason to not steal, kill, etc. -
O-Trap
WebFire;1385033 wrote:Where did God come from then?
He existed out of time. As such, he/she/it (at this point in the discussion) would be the uncreated creator, which at some point, the question "Where did X come from?" begets. (ie the essence of the Kalam Cosmological argument)
The fun part is discussing time itself, though.
Who said he did? I bet Justin steals all the time.ZWICK 4 PREZ;1385055 wrote:Whats your reason not to?
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sleeper
Darn those elitist atheists for requiring proof of something before making a claim. Atheism is the default intellectual position that you have to be moved from in order to accept a theory. You are born with no knowledge and your decisions are based on the aggregate of knowledge from birth until present. Religious believers HAVE to indoctrinate children into their belief system and pressure them in order to solidify a life long belief in a deity who's existence has never been proven. Pretty sad from an intellectual perspective that society doesn't just flat out reject religious belief and seek to PUNISH those who perpetuate the belief to exploit the mentally insolvent from their money. They are businesses that pay no taxes and need no basis for subjugation of their customer base.Dr Winston O'Boogie;1385031 wrote:It is impossible to know either way. Whether you believe in God or are an athiest, there is a leap of faith involved. Specific to religion - and I refer to organized religioni here - in addition to a vehicle to answering philisophical questions, it also satisfies the basic human need to belong to a community. Organized athiest groups do the exact same thing. What the people who file into the pews at St. Matthew's on Sunday morning get from being in each other's midst is the exact same thing that the people who atted the Freedom from Religion annual meeting are after - companionship with their fellow, like minded man.
Simplifying the debate as is done on both sides is a red flag to me. The religious who damn me to hell for questioning God's existence are equally ignorant as the elitist athiest who calls my faith a sign or stupidity. Both these types fall into the category of people who are threatened by whatever is different. This, and not religion itself, is the cause of most human conflict.
The fact is that with today's technology, no one can prove the right anwer. -
WebFire
So it's crazy to think that something came from nothing but not crazy to think something always existed and was never created. Interesting.O-Trap;1385065 wrote:He existed out of time. As such, he/she/it (at this point in the discussion) would be the uncreated creator, which at some point, the question "Where did X come from?" begets. (ie the essence of the Kalam Cosmological argument)
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justincredible
Perhaps my wording was bad as "because I'm a good person" is technically a reason. I should say I feel bad for those that need the fear of "hell" or the promise of "heaven" to not steal, kill, etc.ZWICK 4 PREZ;1385055 wrote:Whats your reason not to? -
Belly35
Creating a Thread about Religion is an ego trip for the creator.</SPAN> -
justincredible
Maybe god created time?WebFire;1385079 wrote:So it's crazy to think that something came from nothing but not crazy to think something always existed and was never created. Interesting. -
ZWICK 4 PREZ
Who says killing or stealing is either good or bad?justincredible;1385083 wrote:Perhaps my wording was bad as "because I'm a good person" is technically a reason. I should say I feel bad for those that need the fear of "hell" or the promise of "heaven" to not steal, kill, etc. -
Dr Winston O'Boogie
Having no knowledge of God doesn't make atheism the default position. Atheism is the doctrine that there is no God. I have no knowledge of whether there is a road in Hong Kong called Penny Lane. That is different than me forming an opinion as to whether there is or is not a Strawberry Lane in Hong Kong. Neither is the default.sleeper;1385069 wrote:Darn those elitist atheists for requiring proof of something before making a claim. Atheism is the default intellectual position that you have to be moved from in order to accept a theory. You are born with no knowledge and your decisions are based on the aggregate of knowledge from birth until present. Religious believers HAVE to indoctrinate children into their belief system and pressure them in order to solidify a life long belief in a deity who's existence has never been proven. Pretty sad from an intellectual perspective that society doesn't just flat out reject religious belief and seek to PUNISH those who perpetuate the belief to exploit the mentally insolvent from their money. They are businesses that pay no taxes and need no basis for subjugation of their customer base. -
sleeper
That's a good question. Since non-believers don't believe in an afterlife, we actually want to enjoy our time here on Earth. I'd prefer not to spend that time in jail for murdering someone or not being able to get a solid job because I thieve everywhere I go. I suppose if I'm a believer, I don't really care about my time on Earth especially if what I'm doing is directed by religious leaders who "know"(see: 9/11, The Crusades, Israel-Palestinian conflict, Spanish Inquisition, Salem Witch trials, etc) how to get into a better place.ZWICK 4 PREZ;1385055 wrote:Whats your reason not to?
My question for believers is quite simply. If your goal is to be with god, why don't you kill yourself? God gave you free will, might as well utilize it and claim it was part of his "plan". :thumbup: -
O-Trap
It is impossible that something can come from nothing. As such, at some point, something (for now, we don't even have to call it "God") had to have existed outside time (NOTE: not the same as existing in an infinite past) to not only initiate the chain of causality, but to do so without provocation, since there was nothing else in existence to cause it to do so.WebFire;1385079 wrote:So it's crazy to think that something came from nothing but not crazy to think something always existed and was never created. Interesting. -
sleeper
It absolutely is. You are born with no knowledge of anything. Atheism is the default position just like not speaking English is the default position. Sorry that you are unable to follow logic and reason; a believer right? Ironic.Dr Winston O'Boogie;1385088 wrote:Having no knowledge of God doesn't make atheism the default position. Atheism is the doctrine that there is no God. I have no knowledge of whether there is a road in Hong Kong called Penny Lane. That is different than me forming an opinion as to whether there is or is not a Strawberry Lane in Hong Kong. Neither is the default. -
ZWICK 4 PREZ
Killing yourself is murder.. duhsleeper;1385090 wrote:My question for believers is quite simply. If your goal is to be with god, why don't you kill yourself? God gave you free will, might as well utilize it and claim it was part of his "plan". :thumbup: -
Con_Alma
One doesn't have to be physically dead to be with God.sleeper;1385090... wrote:
My question for believers is quite simply. If your goal is to be with god, why don't you kill yourself? God gave you free will, might as well utilize it and claim it was part of his "plan". :thumbup: -
justincredible
Common sense says that taking someone's life and/or property is bad. What are you trying to get at here?ZWICK 4 PREZ;1385087 wrote:Who says killing or stealing is either good or bad? -
O-Trap
Quite simply, we enjoy our time here on earth as well. Being on earth isn't a bad thing, and given that it's all we know at the moment, not only is there no motivation to end that in the short order, but there's no reason to, as if an afterlife is for an infinite amount of time, then we'll all experience it for the same length as everyone else.sleeper;1385090 wrote:That's a good question. Since non-believers don't believe in an afterlife, we actually want to enjoy our time here on Earth. I'd prefer not to spend that time in jail for murdering someone or not being able to get a solid job because I thieve everywhere I go. I suppose if I'm a believer, I don't really care about my time on Earth especially if what I'm doing is directed by religious leaders who "know"(see: 9/11, The Crusades, Israel-Palestinian conflict, Spanish Inquisition, Salem Witch trials, etc) how to get into a better place.
My question for believers is quite simply. If your goal is to be with god, why don't you kill yourself? God gave you free will, might as well utilize it and claim it was part of his "plan". :thumbup:
That's aside from the fact that my own beliefs suggest that murder is wrong.
However, as I look at your reasoning, it appears that your reasons for not killing and stealing are entirely based on the law of the land prohibiting it. If the law of the land was to suddenly disappear, and you could receive pleasure from killing people in order to take their possessions without fear of social or legal repercussions, would you do so? -
O-Trap
Careful. "Common sense" is not a proof of something. Can't be tested in a laboratory or experienced with the empirical senses.justincredible;1385096 wrote:Common sense says that taking someone's life and/or property is bad. What are you trying to get at here?
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WebFire
So to your point, that does nothing to prove a God existed. Something other than God could have created everything.O-Trap;1385091 wrote:It is impossible that something can come from nothing. As such, at some point, something (for now, we don't even have to call it "God") had to have existed outside time (NOTE: not the same as existing in an infinite past) to not only initiate the chain of causality, but to do so without provocation, since there was nothing else in existence to cause it to do so. -
ZWICK 4 PREZ
Who says it's bad? Animals do it all the time. It's nature right?justincredible;1385096 wrote:Common sense says that taking someone's life and/or property is bad. What are you trying to get at here? -
justincredible
My moral compass says it's bad.ZWICK 4 PREZ;1385107 wrote:Who says it's bad? Animals do it all the time. It's nature right? -
O-Trap
Using this logic ... and ONLY this logic ... yes.WebFire;1385105 wrote:So to your point, that does nothing to prove a God existed. Something other than God could have created everything.
Based on the fact that it created without being provoked, however, would seem to indicate some level of volition. -
Dr Winston O'Boogie
Atheism is a belief. A belief is something one accepts as true. Have no knowledge of something is not synonymous wtih having a belief. A baby is born with neither the belief if a deity nor a belief in the non-existence of a deity. A belief has to be formed either way, so neither is the default position.sleeper;1385092 wrote:It absolutely is. You are born with no knowledge of anything. Atheism is the default position just like not speaking English is the default position. Sorry that you are unable to follow logic and reason; a believer right? Ironic.