The Steubenville incident v. Anonymous

• Manhattan Buckeye

  vball10set;1407783 wrote:The juvie they're going to is in Chillicothe, and they hate Steuby.

  If that is the case it won't be a pleasant experience. Not if one is from Steubenville or anywhere else.
  
  Just out of curiosity from one that hasn't followed this much despite the national media attention - if you were the judge what would you have sentenced these guys to?
• sherm03

  

  Manhattan Buckeye;1407794 wrote:If that is the case it won't be a pleasant experience. Not if one is from Steubenville or anywhere else.
  
  Just out of curiosity from one that hasn't followed this much despite the national media attention - if you were the judge what would you have sentenced these guys to?

  Maximum allowed by law. Also, if I was the judge...I would have been trying them as adults instead of as juveniles.
• Iliketurtles

  

  sherm03;1407797 wrote:Maximum allowed by law. Also, if I was the judge...I would have been trying them as adults instead of as juveniles.

  This.
• Manhattan Buckeye

  sherm03;1407797 wrote:Maximum allowed by law. Also, if I was the judge...I would have been trying them as adults instead of as juveniles.

  What is the maximum for digital penetration if classified as felony rape and tried as an adult?
  
  30 years? 40 years?
  
  A UVA lacrosse guy killed a girl on campus in a drunken rage and will be out by the time he is 45. He killed the girl - repeat, KILLED. These guys were idiots, no doubt. Do you think this action arises to the death of a Yeardley Love - or is it more mob rule?
  
  I'm not making a judgment - if there is any judgment it is with the parents on all sides. I can understand the argument that 3-5 years of Juvie isn't enough. But on the other hand I'm curious how much you'd keep these guys in prison.
• sherm03

  

  Manhattan Buckeye;1407803 wrote:What is the maximum for digital penetration if classified as felony rape and tried as an adult?
  
  30 years? 40 years?
  
  A UVA lacrosse guy killed a girl on campus in a drunken rage and will be out by the time he is 45. He killed the girl - repeat, KILLED. These guys were idiots, no doubt. Do you think this action arises to the death of a Yeardley Love - or is it more mob rule?
  
  I'm not making a judgment - if there is any judgment it is with the parents on all sides. I can understand the argument that 3-5 years of Juvie isn't enough. But on the other hand I'm curious how much you'd keep these guys in prison.

  As I said...I'd give them the maximum allowed by law and I would try them as adults. If you had asked me the question regarding the UVA lacrosse player, my answer would be the same.
  
  Now if you want to argue that our legal system has several flaws, including the fact that lesser murder charges exist and a defendant can claim it was an act of passion and get a lighter sentence than someone who planned it out and executed a murder, despite the common fact that the victim in both cases is dead...then that is a different discussion.
  
  I think these guys knew what they were doing. And they knew they were in trouble and tried to cover it up. If I was the judge, I'd hit them as hard as I could under the law.
• Mulva

  

  Looking solely at prison time doesn't make sense with our criminal system. Even after release they aren't really going to be "free".
• Manhattan Buckeye

  Not an expert in Ohio law, but the maximum in most jurisdictions is life for an adult felony rape. You'd give these guys life in prison for that?
• sherm03

  

  Manhattan Buckeye;1407811 wrote:Not an expert in Ohio law, but the maximum in most jurisdictions is life for an adult felony rape. You'd give these guys life in prison for that?

  If that's the maximum...yes.
• Manhattan Buckeye

  Thank you for your candor.
• queencitybuckeye

  Manhattan Buckeye;1407803 wrote:What is the maximum for digital penetration if classified as felony rape and tried as an adult?
  
  30 years? 40 years?
  
  A UVA lacrosse guy killed a girl on campus in a drunken rage and will be out by the time he is 45. He killed the girl - repeat, KILLED. These guys were idiots, no doubt. Do you think this action arises to the death of a Yeardley Love - or is it more mob rule?
  
  I'm not making a judgment - if there is any judgment it is with the parents on all sides. I can understand the argument that 3-5 years of Juvie isn't enough. But on the other hand I'm curious how much you'd keep these guys in prison.

  While 20+ years is obviously a long time, it's entirely too short for that particular crime. That's where the imbalance lies IMO.
• september63

  

  Everyone knows my feelings about Steubenville and this case. However, I do have a different opinion on the sentence. I'd have liked them both to remain in juvenile detention until 21. No early releases based on anything. They were still kids though and I dont think a kid deserves 20 or 30 yrs in prison for what they did. Give them one chance to be a productive part of society. It will be tough, and it should be, but something tells me both these kids will become decent, productive and educated adults. While I despise them now. I hope kids everywhere learned a lesson and I wish them well towards their future.
• sleeper

  

  I think the sentences were weak as hell. 5 years would have been more appropriate.
• Manhattan Buckeye

  This is an interesting thread, no doubt, if not disturbing - both in the manner of what allegedly (and assumedly) happened in Steubenville and in terms of mob rule. It is a shame the parents weren't around to deal with this. In all sides.
  
  And once again, I never thought I'd agree with Sleeper this much. But at times, I have to give him credit. Reps Sleeper - and I've been hard on you in the past.
• gut

  After reading about the culture and seeing the complete lack of respect throughout that community, trying these kids as juveniles was appropriate. The community failed them. Could have just as easily been what sounds like any number of other kids. That's never an excuse, but at the same time I think these kids can one day become productive citizens.
  
  Sentences do seem too light - I'd agree with locking them up until they were 21. Or I might even have advocated something like a 10 year sentence, but earn a college degree while in there and you can get out after you get the diploma.
• IggyPride00

  

  They do have to register as a sex offender for life don't they?
  
  If so that will more than make up for the lack of jail time because having watched that parole diaries show before it seems like life as a registered sex offender is one step short of being in jail with all the rules/restrictions and limitations that come with it.
• sherm03

  

  IggyPride00;1408070 wrote:They do have to register as a sex offender for life don't they?
  
  If so that will more than make up for the lack of jail time because having watched that parole diaries show before it seems like life as a registered sex offender is one step short of being in jail with all the rules/restrictions and limitations that come with it.

  In a normal place, yes. In a town where there are still plenty of people that think these kids did nothing wrong...registering as a sex offender doesn't mean shit. Do you honestly think they'll have a problem finding a job in Steubenville when they get out because of this conviction? The only thing that hurts them is that they won't be able to be one of the 27 assistant coaches on the sidelines one day.
  
  To explain my thinking regarding the sentences, the judge had the opportunity to send a message to the other kids in the community. He had the chance to show them that just because they are on the football team, they won't get off easy no matter what they do. He didn't take the chance to send that message.
• Mulva

  

  IggyPride00;1408070 wrote:They do have to register as a sex offender for life don't they?
  
  If so that will more than make up for the lack of jail time because having watched that parole diaries show before it seems like life as a registered sex offender is one step short of being in jail with all the rules/restrictions and limitations that come with it.

  Exactly. The sentence is never going to end for them, they just won't be in prison for all of it.
• gut

  Not complaining by any stretch, but it just strikes me as a bit odd that kids tried as juveniles would have to register as a sex offender for life.
• gut

  sherm03;1408107 wrote: To explain my thinking regarding the sentences, the judge had the opportunity to send a message to the other kids in the community. He had the chance to show them that just because they are on the football team, they won't get off easy no matter what they do. He didn't take the chance to send that message.

  It's really not the job or responsibility of the judge and legal system to "send a message" to the community. They enforce the laws on the books - the two offenders certainly don't deserve harsher just to teach the community a lesson.
  
  What sends a message is going after other people, parents and whomever else contributed and need to be accountable...which from the sounds of things that is exactly what they will be doing.
• IggyPride00

  

  Mulva;1408108 wrote:Exactly. The sentence is never going to end for them, they just won't be in prison for all of it.

  Oh, I think they should have gotten at least a decade in jail.
  
  Since they didn't though, having to register as a sex offender is the next best thing since the judge ostensibly refused to give them anything more than a slap on the wrist.
  

  In a normal place, yes. In a town where there are still plenty of people that think these kids did nothing wrong...registering as a sex offender doesn't mean ****. Do you honestly think they'll have a problem finding a job in Steubenville when they get out because of this conviction? The only thing that hurts them is that they won't be able to be one of the 27 assistant coaches on the sidelines one day.

  While I agree being a townie will help them, there are all sorts of rules and regulations that being a registered offender come with it will make their lives miserable even if they stay there.
  
  It will limit the kinds of jobs they can get because all it takes is for one disgruntled town resident to report them for violating some of the rules that come with their RSO designation and they will be up shit creek.
• sherm03

  

  gut;1408123 wrote:It's really not the job or responsibility of the judge and legal system to "send a message" to the community. They enforce the laws on the books - the two offenders certainly don't deserve harsher just to teach the community a lesson.
  
  What sends a message is going after other people, parents and whomever else contributed and need to be accountable...which from the sounds of things that is exactly what they will be doing.

  I'm not saying it's the job or responsibility of the judge to send a message. I'm saying that the judge had the opportunity to do it by giving these kids the harshest penalty allowed by law. He didn't do that, and I think that's a shame.
  
  I do agree that going after other people and parents would send a message. But if all they get is a slap on the wrist as well, then it's pointless.
• OSH

  

  Unfortunately, giving "harsh sentences" are not deterrents. That is proven through many research projects.
• OSH

  

  [video=youtube;MvUdyNko8LQ][/video]
• brutus161

  

  OSH;1408192 wrote:[video=youtube;MvUdyNko8LQ][/video]

  
  Smfh
• gut

  I don't agree with "grieving" over the verdict, but it does illustrate these guys lost a lot more than 1 year of freedom.
  
  Anyone can serve a year in the clink, the deterrent is really about trying to put your life back together after doing time. They'll be paying for that the rest of their lives, being passed over for jobs and promotions because of being a convicted sex offender.