Voters already trying to push OSU into title game. OSU jumps over Stanford

• lhslep134

  

  Pick6;990305 wrote:Arkansas has lost 2 games by 48 points.

  To the #1 and #2 teams in the country. OU will have lost to an absolutely pitiful Texas Tech team, a Baylor team who is nowhere as good as the #1 and #2 teams and OSU.
• enigmaax

  Pick6;990305 wrote:Arkansas has lost 2 games by 48 points.

  How many points do you need to lose by when you get beat by a 5-7 team at home (that subsequently went on to lose its next five games by an average of almost 31 points)? Especially considering that Arkansas' loss to each team was by less than the average for each of those teams, who are the top two teams in the country.
• Sykotyk

  

  The whole system is bullshit.
  
  The polls are power rankings, nothing more. Whether a team wins or loses shouldn't, technically, reflect whether you think somebody is better than someone else. The funny thing is when a team ranked lower than a team they lose to drops in the polls. Prior to the game they were projected to lose. You ranked them lower. So why rank them even lower when what you projected to happen... happens? If they fail to play eachother (because they're playing other bad teams instead) they both happily go on in the same rankings as before. If LSU had played Tulane and Alabama had played UAB and both won, they'd still have been #1 and #2 after that week.
  
  Whether a particular matchup happens or not should have no bearing on where you RANK teams.
  
  As for the BCS, for all intents and purposes, it's a one-game playoff with only 2 of 120 teams qualifying. It has a very shitty qualification standard that uses very little, if any, tangible aspects you can measure. If, as the BCS backers argue, the regular season is a playoff, you have to treat it like a playoff.
  
  As for the argument about Michigan-Florida years ago and Bama-OSU this year... don't forget this: Michigan was still #2 after that loss. Bama dropped. Michigan fell below #2 AFTER Florida played one more regular season game AND the SEC title game. I think this year, even pollsters, are starting to realize the 'automatically drop teams after a loss' mindset is really bad for college football. Because suddenly the whole 'if you have to lose, lose early' mentality is rearing its head and people are realizing it for what it is: bullshit.
  
  
  This would've been solved years ago if the BCS included a few more parameters: only conference champions can play in the championship game. Therefore, it's truly an inter-regional title that can't be corrupted by one region. And secondly, the NCAA had some balls and created their OWN mathematical formula rather than relying on mostly proprietary systems that we don't even get to know what criteria they use to rank teams. Which led to people being upset with the 'computer polls' as if they were entirely independent and uncontrollable. Which led us to the AP and Coaches poll taking such a huge percentage of the BCS formula. Which, led the AP to back out for fear of news reporters making the news. Which was wise. Which just created a hack-job Harris poll that basically mimics the coaches poll.
  
  Once the first poll comes out, the polls begin to coalesce into the same ranking. Once someone submits their poll, the next week they get to see what the averages are. And if their rankings are way out from the 'average', they begin to move those outliers closer to the average rank. They're really not independent. Why else do fans get upset if some guy in Denver put Cal ten spots lower than the average? It's AN AVERAGE. It's not meant to be definitive. By it's own label, it's an average.
  
  It's not even a fair average. All 120 teams should be ranked (both in polls, computers, and BCS). If #1 is 25 points, #2, is 24, etc and #25 is worth 1.... 26 is worth zero. And 120 is worth zero. Therefore, #24 is twice as good as #25. #22 is twice as good as #24, and four times as good as #25. #18 is twice as good as #22, four times as good as #24, and eight times as good as #25. It gets worse...
  
  #10 is twice as good as #18. Four times as good as #22. Eight times as good as #24. And 16 times better than #25. Does that really seem consistent with reality? Would that be a failure in reality or rather a failure in the polling?
  
  At least the BCS pretends this doesn't happen by giving a point total, and then simply ranking the teams.... but the two biggest criteria (Coaches and Harris) use hard ranking spots.
  
  There can't be a #1 and #1.05. At best, they can be #2.
  
  Cumulatively, there's 325 'points' awarded from each pollster to the 25 teams they rank. That's an average of 13 points per team ranked. But, the problem is, they can't for instance, they are forced to award one team 25, one team 24, one 23, etc down the line to one. That's a pretty steep edge per team ranked. What if the pollster thinks there's two absolutely great teams... and a bunch of average teams. You can't give out a 25 and 25, and give the rest an average of 12. Even if he felt #3 through #25 were all equals. He's forced to pick one. By whatever method he wants. Could by by coinflip. Who knows. The fact is, we'd never know. We just get the end result.
  
  The problem is that there is no true standard on how teams get ranked where they do. By either computers or people. We've never figured out a formula to rank teams. Because it's impossible to do so without the teams eligible from playing it out on the field and using that result as the judgement on their ability.
  
  Whether you like the result or not. There is no disputing the result. Wisconsin 45, Penn State 7. That's definitive. That is the delineation between advancing or not.
  
  Every conference, now, that has more teams than ability to play all opponents (i.e., back when Big Ten had 10 possible opponents, but only eight actual games with them and the ability for joint-titles), play a conference title game between two competing divisions where everyone has exact rules by which to qualify for the championship game. That is the elimination factor. You win your division. You advance to your conference championship game. You win that ... you advance to.... a complete reset where anybody can qualify for the BCS championship? In hindsight, it makes the regular season entirely pointless. Most of what happens you have no control over. And the conferences that don't have championship games have round-robins where the team with the most wins gets the title. A tie-breaker is resolved between their head-to-head matchup (or matchups).
  
  That's the regular season being a playoff. Not this crap we get spoon-fed every year and told its caviar.
• 2kool4skool

  

  brb ESPN weekly power poll deciding top 2 NFL teams at end of season and they play for Super Bowl.
  
  Actually, that system is less absurd, since at least there's a balanced schedule in the NFL and easier to compare.
  
  The NCAA, where going against the wishes of 99% of your fans happens.
• sleeper

  

  According to this, no matter what happens in the SEC championship game, it would be LSU v Bama. What a joke. I can't believe Florida fans are actually backing this considering this happened in 2006 and Florida fans wouldn't stop QQ'ing about it being unfair that Michigan(who only had 1 loss to the best team in the country in a close game) should get a rematch with Ohio State in the championship.
  
  Typical SEC circle jerking.
• Pick6

  

  sleeper;990385 wrote:According to this, no matter what happens in the SEC championship game, it would be LSU v Bama. What a joke. I can't believe Florida fans are actually backing this considering this happened in 2006 and Florida fans wouldn't stop QQ'ing about it being unfair that Michigan(who only had 1 loss to the best team in the country in a close game) should get a rematch with Ohio State in the championship.
  
  Typical SEC circle jerking.

  yep. I wasnt in favor of a rematch then, just like I am now. Imagine if OSU got the rematch with Michigan........
• cats gone wild

  So basically, it looks like a title for another SEC team this year no matter what. 6 in a row. When will it end, 2013? LSU probably has next year locked up (you can quote me on that).
• lhslep134

  

  Sykotyk;990353 wrote:
  The problem is that there is no true standard on how teams get ranked where they do. By either computers or people. We've never figured out a formula to rank teams. Because it's impossible to do so without the teams eligible from playing it out on the field and using that result as the judgement on their ability.
  .

  Thank you for pointing this fact out. You had a very good post, but this is the point I want to emphasize.
• Skyhook79

  

  cats gone wild;990448 wrote:So basically, it looks like a title for another SEC team this year no matter what. 6 in a row. When will it end, 2013? LSU probably has next year locked up (you can quote me on that).

  As long as the BCS is around I expect the SEC to have a team in the NC game every year, regardless of worthiness.
• cats gone wild

  Skyhook79;990532 wrote:As long as the BCS is around I expect the SEC to have a team in the NC game every year, regardless of worthiness.

  Basically. If a team wins the SEC title, they are in. Well, except for this year possibly. But, until someone can beat them, how can you keep them out if they have the same record as teams that play a lighter schedule?
• bigkahuna

  sleeper;990385 wrote:According to this, no matter what happens in the SEC championship game, it would be LSU v Bama. What a joke. I can't believe Florida fans are actually backing this considering this happened in 2006 and Florida fans wouldn't stop QQ'ing about it being unfair that Michigan(who only had 1 loss to the best team in the country in a close game) should get a rematch with Ohio State in the championship.
  
  Typical SEC circle jerking.

  Mark May is the worst with this.
  
  Mark May 2006- There is no clear #2 team, but we've already seen Michigan/OSU, and OSU was better. Let Florida have their shot. You should have to win your conference to have a chance to play in the BCS game.
  
  Mark May 2011- Alabama is clearly the 2nd best team in the country. They lost IN OVERTIME by 3 points to THE BEST TEAM IN THE COUNTRY. It shouldn't matter if you won your conference championship or not; THE 2 BEST TEAMS SHOULD PLAY PERIOD....
  
  Go Fuck Yourself Mark May.
• Pick6

  

  bigkahuna;990608 wrote: Go Fuck Yourself Mark May.

  I just repped a michigan fan.
• bigkahuna

  Pick6;990645 wrote:I just repped a michigan fan.

  I'll rep you for having the balls to do and admit this.
• Skyhook79

  

  bigkahuna;990608 wrote:Mark May is the worst with this.
  
  Mark May 2006- There is no clear #2 team, but we've already seen Michigan/OSU, and OSU was better. Let Florida have their shot. You should have to win your conference to have a chance to play in the BCS game.
  
  Mark May 2011- Alabama is clearly the 2nd best team in the country. They lost IN OVERTIME by 3 points to THE BEST TEAM IN THE COUNTRY. It shouldn't matter if you won your conference championship or not; THE 2 BEST TEAMS SHOULD PLAY PERIOD....
  
  Go Fuck Yourself Mark May.

  
  Good work there. Sad thing is Mark May isn't the only one who said the exact same thing then and now. BCS is joke plain and simple.
• KnightRyder

  

  1996 #1 ranked florida gators lose to #2 ranked florida state 24 21. then get a rematch with florida state for the national championship whipping the noles 52 20.
• ytownfootball

  

  bigkahuna;990608 wrote:Mark May is the worst with this.
  
  Mark May 2006- There is no clear #2 team, but we've already seen Michigan/OSU, and OSU was better. Let Florida have their shot. You should have to win your conference to have a chance to play in the BCS game.
  
  Mark May 2011- Alabama is clearly the 2nd best team in the country. They lost IN OVERTIME by 3 points to THE BEST TEAM IN THE COUNTRY. It shouldn't matter if you won your conference championship or not; THE 2 BEST TEAMS SHOULD PLAY PERIOD....
  
  Go Fuck Yourself Mark May.

  
  Big Pimpin' the SEC is in his job description.
• lhslep134

  

  KnightRyder;991858 wrote:1996 #1 ranked florida gators lose to #2 ranked florida state 24 21. then get a rematch with florida state for the national championship whipping the noles 52 20.

  That's because Florida State is absolutely pathetic, and will never be relevant again. What were they ranked preseason this year? 6?
  
  What a joke of a program.
• bigkahuna

  I was just thinking about this, so someone please correct me if I am wrong.
  
  The BCS rules states that only 2 teams from the same conference can play in the BCS Bowls correct?
  
  So, if Georgia wins the SEC Title, they get an automatic bid. LSU still plays in the BCS Title Game. Now, wouldn't that be the 2 team max for the SEC, so Alabama CAN'T play in the BCS Title Game?
  
  That's how I understand it, but I need some clarification.
• KnightRyder

  

  lhslep134;991898 wrote:That's because Florida State is absolutely pathetic, and will never be relevant again. What were they ranked preseason this year? 6?
  
  What a joke of a program.

  then maybe that explains why the very next season "absolutely pathetic" florida state beat the snot out of OSU and then won the national title in 1999. correct me if i'm wrong didnt that joke of a progam (FSU) blow out the same miami team that dismantled OSU this season?
• ytownfootball

  

  KnightRyder;992240 wrote:then maybe that explains why the very next season "absolutely pathetic" florida state beat the snot out of OSU and then won the national title in 1999. correct me if i'm wrong didnt that joke of a progam (FSU) blow out the same miami team that dismantled OSU this season?

  All three were pathetic. What's your point again?
• enigmaax

  bigkahuna;992163 wrote:I was just thinking about this, so someone please correct me if I am wrong.
  
  The BCS rules states that only 2 teams from the same conference can play in the BCS Bowls correct?
  
  So, if Georgia wins the SEC Title, they get an automatic bid. LSU still plays in the BCS Title Game. Now, wouldn't that be the 2 team max for the SEC, so Alabama CAN'T play in the BCS Title Game?
  
  That's how I understand it, but I need some clarification.

  There was talk about this on a couple other threads - the only exception to the two team rule is if two non-champions from the same conference are #1 and #2. In that case, the two top ranked teams play for the title and the conference champ goes to the "other" BCS bowl.
• karen lotz

  

  bigkahuna;992163 wrote:I was just thinking about this, so someone please correct me if I am wrong.
  
  The BCS rules states that only 2 teams from the same conference can play in the BCS Bowls correct?
  
  So, if Georgia wins the SEC Title, they get an automatic bid. LSU still plays in the BCS Title Game. Now, wouldn't that be the 2 team max for the SEC, so Alabama CAN'T play in the BCS Title Game?
  
  That's how I understand it, but I need some clarification.

  
  No. if two teams from the same conference finish 1 and 2 but don't win the conference, that conference will have 3 teams in the BCS
• bigkahuna

  karen lotz;992263 wrote:No. if two teams from the same conference finish 1 and 2 but don't win the conference, that conference will have 3 teams in the BCS

  Damn, I thought we had a loop hole.
• KnightRyder

  

  ytownfootball;992246 wrote:All three were pathetic. What's your point again?

  the point i was trying to make is that a rematch of a regular season game being played for the national title isnt uncommon. but i know its hard for you buckeye fans to comprehend.
• Pick6

  

  KnightRyder;992311 wrote:the point i was trying to make is that a rematch of a regular season game being played for the national title isnt uncommon. but i know its hard for you buckeye fans to comprehend.

  Its happened once before. I'd say its pretty uncommon.