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More Disappointing Exit: Woody Hayes or Joe Paterno?

  • Tiernan
    ^
    Fab should have deep sixed this thread earlier. Actually repulsive that someone would even begin to consider these two incidents are similar. Woody gained back much of his dignity before he died. Paterno never will...and that won't be long.
  • Skyhook79
    dwccrew;967501 wrote:Have you re-read any of your idiotic posts? I made my post in jest to your idiotic apoligetic JoePa posts and you treat it like gospel. You have nothing. You are okay with kids getting raped, just like JoePa was. We get it, you don't care about protecting children.


    Oh the old "I was posting in jest" defense when I am found to be wrong with the facts. Not surprising.
    Oh so now I don't care about children because I think there are too many unanswered questions and too many things that don't jive?
    Are you not the least bit interested in giving people the due process of the law before they are villified and lose their jobs?
    You don't have any questions about the supposed facts of this scandal?
    You don't want to hear from McQuaery on why if he saw what he saw he ran away?
    You don't want to hear from McQuaery's Dad what exactly he said on the phone?
    You don't want to know if he really even called his Dad?
    Your not curious as to why his Dad wasn't called to testify to the Grand jury? Would'nt his testimony be important since he was called right when it happened?
    Your not interested in why MCQuaery still is employed and the BOT has no plans to fire or suspend him?
    Your not interested in knowing why it took 11 months for Sandusky to be arrested after so much damning testimony?
    Your not interested in what the BOT knew and when they knew it?
    Your not interested in what other coaches who have bben on staff for a long time (Like Tom Bradley) knew,heard or seen?
    Thats just off the top of my head I am sure there are defense attorney's who have many other unanswered questions.
  • sleeper
    Skyhook79;967633 wrote:Oh the old "I was posting in jest" defense when I am found to be wrong with the facts. Not surprising.
    Oh so now I don't care about children because I think there are too many unanswered questions and too many things that don't jive?
    Are you not the least bit interested in giving people the due process of the law before they are villified and lose their jobs?
    You don't have any questions about the supposed facts of this scandal?
    You don't want to hear from McQuaery on why if he saw what he saw he ran away?
    You don't want to hear from McQuaery's Dad what exactly he said on the phone?
    You don't want to know if he really even called his Dad?
    Your not curious as to why his Dad wasn't called to testify to the Grand jury? Would'nt his testimony be important since he was called right when it happened?
    Your not interested in why MCQuaery still is employed and the BOT has no plans to fire or suspend him?
    Your not interested in knowing why it took 11 months for Sandusky to be arrested after so much damning testimony?
    Your not interested in what the BOT knew and when they knew it?
    Your not interested in what other coaches who have bben on staff for a long time (Like Tom Bradley) knew,heard or seen?
    Thats just off the top of my head I am sure there are defense attorney's who have many other unanswered questions.
    All those are valid questions that if you ask, you clearly support children being raped.
  • Tiernan
    ^
    All questions that don't have one single iota of impact on WHY JOE PATERNO DIDN"T DO MORE...how F'n dense are you morons?
  • Skyhook79
    Tiernan;967695 wrote:^
    All questions that don't have one single iota of impact on WHY JOE PATERNO DIDN"T DO MORE...how F'n dense are you morons?

    Uh yes it does and those are just some of the unanswered questions.
  • sleeper
    Tiernan;967695 wrote:^
    All questions that don't have one single iota of impact on WHY JOE PATERNO DIDN"T DO MORE...how F'n dense are you morons?
    I have no doubt in my mind if Joe Pa knew what he had known today, he would have gone above and beyond his legal duty. Applying hindsight to a situation is irrational.
  • queencitybuckeye
    So spreading the blame widely enough is supposed to obscure the fact that Paterno could have acted in a way as to save subsequent victims and chose not to? I'm sure the kids brutalized in part due to the man you're defending are OK with that as he (probably) didn't break the law.

    At best Paterno was a coward. At worst, he chose his friend the child molester over the victims. May there be a hell so he can burn in it.
  • killer_ewok
    Paterno. Easily.
  • Tiernan
    Skyhook79;967705 wrote:Uh yes it does and those are just some of the unanswered questions.
    OK genius...please explain how any one of the questions you posed has any impact whatsoever on WHY PATERNO DIDN't DO MORE? Yes some of those questions need to be answered but none of them have a damn thing to do with why Joe is no longer the HC at Pedo State.
  • dwccrew
    HitsRus;967539 wrote:Sorry. You are right. Holtz was a great coach. But as far as coaching programs go...he is the dirtiest of all time, having four of his programs hit with major NCAA sanctions under his watch.( for that alone, he won't be forgotten). My point was simply that Holtz does not deserve as much adoration as some give him. As far as I am concerned his opinions have little credibility where wrongdoing is concerned.
    I can agree with this.
    Skyhook79;967633 wrote:Oh the old "I was posting in jest" defense when I am found to be wrong with the facts. Not surprising.
    dwccrew;967133 wrote:You mean they also turned blind eyes.

    Using your logic, those two did what they were supposed and notified their superiors, right?


    I see nothing wrong with what I said here.

    Skyhook79;967633 wrote:Oh so now I don't care about children because I think there are too many unanswered questions and too many things that don't jive?
    Like what? What doesn't jive? Little boys were raped, JoePa (among many others) looked the other way or totally ignored it, and now heads are rolling. What doesn't jive here? Am I missing something? These guys let this monster around children after they already knew about his MULTIPLE allegations of past inappropriate SEXUAL conduct towards minor boys. What is unanswered? Maybe the question of "why did they allow this man around children for so long?" Yeah, I could see how that question would burn in your brain.
    Skyhook79;967633 wrote:Are you not the least bit interested in giving people the due process of the law before they are villified and lose their jobs?
    Well, I never said JoePa broke the law, so he deserves no due process. He failed these children, while not a crime, it is morally wrong and now JoePa is facing the consequences.
    Skyhook79;967633 wrote:You don't have any questions about the supposed facts of this scandal?
    Hell yeah I do, like why did JoePa, McQueary, the BOT, the AD, the president of the school all continue to allow this monster around children after they knew he was a predator?
    Skyhook79;967633 wrote:You don't want to hear from McQuaery on why if he saw what he saw he ran away?
    You don't want to hear from McQuaery's Dad what exactly he said on the phone?
    You don't want to know if he really even called his Dad?
    Your not curious as to why his Dad wasn't called to testify to the Grand jury? Would'nt his testimony be important since he was called right when it happened?
    Your not interested in why MCQuaery still is employed and the BOT has no plans to fire or suspend him?
    Your not interested in knowing why it took 11 months for Sandusky to be arrested after so much damning testimony?
    Your not interested in what the BOT knew and when they knew it?
    Your not interested in what other coaches who have bben on staff for a long time (Like Tom Bradley) knew,heard or seen?
    Thats just off the top of my head I am sure there are defense attorney's who have many other unanswered questions.
    Yes to all of these, but I don't see how those have anything to do with why JoePa also helped cover this up.
    Tiernan;967695 wrote:^
    All questions that don't have one single iota of impact on WHY JOE PATERNO DIDN"T DO MORE...how F'n dense are you morons?
    +1, just deflection of the truth. That Paterno shares blame in a cover-up.
    sleeper;967715 wrote:I have no doubt in my mind if Joe Pa knew what he had known today, he would have gone above and beyond his legal duty. Applying hindsight to a situation is irrational.
    What does he know today that he didn't know back then? Probably the only thing is that he would be fired over this, so yeah, had he known that back then he probably would have gone above and beyond the law. But since he believed he was untouchable he just turned a blind eye.
  • bonelizzard
    Joe. No question or discussion here..
  • Dr Winston O'Boogie
    What Woody did was embarrasing to the school, but mostly embarrasing to himself. I suppose Charlie Bauman could have been considered a victim of his. But that is the limit of it. Woody got fired for doing something that made him look foolish. Paterno got fired for failure to stop serial child rape. There is absolutely no comparison.
  • Skyhook79
    Dr Winston O'Boogie;968127 wrote: Woody got fired for doing something that made him look foolish. Paterno got fired for failure to stop serial child rape.


    "In announcing Paterno's firing, board vice chairman John Surma did not link the decision specifically to the sex abuse scandal in which former defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky was charged with 40 counts of sex abuse related to minors and two Penn State officials were charged with perjury and failure to report.
    Surma repeatedly said the decision to fire Paterno was made in "the best interests" of the school and that a point had been reached where the school needed new leadership."


    Nice try though.
  • j_crazy
    But the best interest of the school is to distance itself from the child rapes and those that enabled it.
  • reclegend22
    Rethinking my original choice, I'd like to change my pick to Joe Paterno. At first, I just looked at the question in the wrong light, as I completely believe Joe Paterno to be innocent of the adverse reaction he is receiving. And as a result, I chose Woody Hayes, as his action to strike a football player at midfield was of his doing and his alone, and thus a very disappointing ending to an otherwise legendary career.

    Paterno's exit, though, is just so sad. He was backed into a corner and publicly disgraced as a fall guy for an inept institution, despite having been guilty of nothing but leading a university to greatness both on and off the field for over a half century. No matter how hard I try, I just cannot wrap my mind around how so many can so hostilely and enthusiastically applaud the demise of such a noble and illustrious man. It's all so senseless. A tragedy of dynamic proportions.

    My desktop photo is a tribute to a true legend of life.

  • dwccrew
    Skyhook79;968302 wrote:"In announcing Paterno's firing, board vice chairman John Surma did not link the decision specifically to the sex abuse scandal in which former defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky was charged with 40 counts of sex abuse related to minors and two Penn State officials were charged with perjury and failure to report.
    Surma repeatedly said the decision to fire Paterno was made in "the best interests" of the school and that a point had been reached where the school needed new leadership."


    Nice try though.
    Oh really? LOL, what was the best interest of the school then if this wasn't linked to the scandal? Do you actually believe what you are posting? I am beginning to think you are just trollin' now.
  • sleeper
    dwccrew;968437 wrote:Oh really? LOL, what was the best interest of the school then if this wasn't linked to the scandal? Do you actually believe what you are posting? I am beginning to think you are just trollin' now.
    Same reason Tressel was fired. Public perception is more important than the truth. I don't blame the school for firing him, but I do blame the public for the backlash against a great hero and a legendary coach.
  • dwccrew
    sleeper;969123 wrote:Same reason Tressel was fired. Public perception is more important than the truth. I don't blame the school for firing him, but I do blame the public for the backlash against a great hero and a legendary coach.
    Tressel was fired for inaction and covering up NCAA violations. Paterno was fired for inaction and covering up Sandusky's crimes.
  • Skyhook79
    dwccrew;969160 wrote:Tressel was fired for inaction and covering up NCAA violations. Paterno was fired for inaction and covering up Sandusky's crimes.
    There is no evidence or charges filed against Paterno that he was involved in a cover up and he wasn't fired for "inaction" because even the Trustees said he followed the law. Why do you continue throw false information out?
  • dwccrew
    Skyhook79;969795 wrote:There is no evidence or charges filed against Paterno that he was involved in a cover up and he wasn't fired for "inaction" because even the Trustees said he followed the law. Why do you continue throw false information out?
    They fired him because "it was in the best interests of Penn State". The best interests of Penn State is having a head coach that will make sure a pedophile doesn't have access for nearly 2 decades to young children. Not hard to figure out.
  • Skyhook79
    dwccrew;970606 wrote:They fired him because "it was in the best interests of Penn State". The best interests of Penn State is having a head coach that will make sure a pedophile doesn't have access for nearly 2 decades to young children. Not hard to figure out.

    BOT gave Sandusky access to Penn State facilities and Second mile gave Sandusky access to young children. Not hard to figure out.
  • dwccrew
    Skyhook79;970936 wrote:BOT gave Sandusky access to Penn State facilities and Second mile gave Sandusky access to young children. Not hard to figure out.
    And had Joe Paterno been proactive instead of "passing the buck", he could have made sure that the BoT and the Second Mile denied Sandusky access to children and that he was arrested and prosecuted. But instead he participated in hiding that information from the BoT and the Second Mile.