Ohio State 2011 Off-Season Discussion
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OneBuckeye
Seriously. If we had Pryor and no kids suspended, and none of this shit happend we would be in the top 5 in the country no doubt. All we lost was Pryor. He was an integral part of the team but that doesn't take us from a 12-0 to 10-2 team to a 7-5 team. -
Writerbuckeye
My thinking is pretty simple: if OSU gets even average QB play out of Miller (assuming here), they win 8-9 games. If he manages to achieve a bit beyond average and get better as the season progresses, then 10 wins or more are not out of the question. It truly does come down to QB play for OSU this year, because of the change.
I don't think the defensive losses are going to hurt as much as people believe. There is a ton of talent returning to that D, and a lot of depth in the secondary because of injuries a year ago. -
WebFireOneBuckeye;864081 wrote:Seriously. If we had Pryor and no kids suspended, and none of this shit happend we would be in the top 5 in the country no doubt. All we lost was Pryor. He was an integral part of the team but that doesn't take us from a 12-0 to 10-2 team to a 7-5 team.
With no changes they'd be a 10-11 win team. They would not be 12-0. The losses this team has endured are easily good for a loss or 2. -
Automatik
WebFire;864099 wrote:With no changes they'd be a 10-11 win team. They would not be 12-0. The losses this team has endured are easily good for a loss or 2.
You don't know that.
Before the epic disaster I was expecting big things this season.....BCS game for sure. -
WebFireAutomatik;864100 wrote:You don't know that.
Well duh.
No one KNOWS anything that is said here. -
WebFire
Not disagreeing. But I still think 11-1 was going to be the best. Take out your 4 year starting QB and replace with a true frosh, fire your legendary coach and replace with an inexperienced one, and that is easily worth a couple of losses IMO.Automatik;864100 wrote: Before the epic disaster I was expecting big things this season.....BCS game for sure. -
Automatik
12-0 would have been a stretch, but who knows. I sure has hell didn't predict 13-0 in '02.
For this year I would be ok with 3 losses MAX, but competitive and no ass beatings. Big 10 champs and I'd be ecstatic! -
WebFireYa'll like this then, I reckon. SI picks them to go 7-5.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/football/ncaa/08/16/big-ten-preview/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_t11_a3 -
OneBuckeye
WebFire;864141 wrote:Ya'll like this then, I reckon. SI picks them to go 7-5.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/football/ncaa/08/16/big-ten-preview/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_t11_a3
Saw that earlier can't say I'm surprised by outsiders views... and LOL at the offensive MVP. -
vball10setWebFire;864141 wrote:Ya'll like this then, I reckon. SI picks them to go 7-5.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/football/ncaa/08/16/big-ten-preview/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_t11_a3
Losing four conference games? I just don't see it....my prediction is 9-3 (Nebraska, MSU & Wisky) -
se-alum
Honestly, the defensive losses don't worry me at all. I think the secondary will be better than they were last year, especially if Moeller, Bryant, Barnett, and Brown all stay healthy. Linebackers may be our weakest spot, and even they have potential to be great. I expect Simon and Williams to be virtually unblockable coming off the edges, and Big Hank should have a very good year. My only worry about this years team, is the passing game. If the passing game can just be average, OSU could very easily win 10 games, but if they struggle, I can see an 8 win season.WebFire;864023 wrote:Even with the article you posted, I don't think his prediction is all that bad. I would say 8-4 before 7-5, and 9-3 is certainly not out of the question. But fans seem to be forgetting when making predictions that they lost their starting QB, 9 defensive starters (is this correct?), 5 other players for 5 games, and most importantly, their head coach. I don't see 10 regular season wins for the Buckeyes this year. -
BoatShoesI read on buckeyegrove that the buckeyes plan to use straight 50 fronts quite a bit against a base offensive set that would look like this:
Sweat Klein
W M
LEO T N E S
Williams Simon Hankins Bellamy Sabino
Pretty Sweet IYAM. -
Y-Town Steelhound
They won't lose to Wisconsin, mark my words. They'll lose some stupid game (like Illinois) before they lose to Wisconsin this year. -
LJ
I guess Verlon Reed is really impressing people at WR. I guess Ty Williams can't hold onto the damn ball -
OneBuckeye
All WRs except Reed are having trouble catching the damn ball from what I have read. Williams being the primary offender though. Devin Smith has been standing out and I think may get a shot at some PT this year. I would love the hear more positive reports on Philly Brown, but haven't. I think our defense could be one of the best this year (compared to past) especially with improved safety play. There is some lack of experienced depth on the Dline, but if they come through watch out.
Poor tackling from safties (OJ) and linebackers really got us in trouble against wisconsin last year. Jon Newsome was starting for us that game was he not, and Rolle playing MLB got ate up? We just got manhandled up front, with Klien and Sabino in the middle we will definately have more size to match up against wisconsin this year. Newsome just got manhandled in that game. -
OneBuckeye
http://www.buckeyextra.com/content/stories/2011/08/17/candidates-ready-to-run.html
The incumbent is suspended for the first five games. Last year’s other main running back is trying to make the NFL.
Yet the level of concern for Ohio State’s running back situation is much less than it is for its equally unsettled quarterbacks, largely because the Buckeyes believe that their running backs, though mostly short on experience, have no shortage of talent.
“I think we’ve got a group of guys who are very impressive,” coach Luke Fickell said after practice yesterday.
With Daniel Herron suspended for the first five games and Brandon Saine with the Green Bay Packers, the competition to be the opening-game starter is wide open.
Jordan Hall, who ran for 169 yards last year, usually takes the first-team reps. But the versatile Hall also has been split out as a receiver on some plays.
Three other running backs are in the hunt as well, and all have shown potential in camp. Sophomore Jaamal Berry, who averaged 8.3 yards on 32 carries last season, appears to be the best breakaway threat. Sophomore Carlos Hyde has shown surprising niftiness for a 238-pounder. Rod Smith, a 6-foot-3, 230-pound redshirt freshman, is a power runner with big-play potential.
Ohio State has practiced in full pads only since Friday. Fickell said the upcoming scrimmages will be crucial in establishing the pecking order.
“We’re working hard every play, making each other better,” Berry said. “(We’re) taking every rep like it’s a game situation.”
That’s exactly how Fickell likes it.
“That’s one of the tougher positions on the field because it’s the one position that takes the most hits,” he said. “That guy has got to keep getting up and getting back after it and wearing guys out.”
Knowing that the starting position was open, Ohio State’s running backs worked out particularly hard in the offseason. They ran on the practice-field sand pit to improve their leg strength and did agility drills, in addition to the normal weight training.
Hyde ran 40 yards in 4.4 seconds recently, a number that surprised even him. But with a chunky body, he’s primarily a power runner.
“When I get the ball, the first thing I think is, I’m trying to get north as soon as possible,” Hyde said.
Berry said he was timed at 4.5 in the 40, but that must have been an off day. He is exceptionally fast and nimble. On one play yesterday, he broke through the line and reached the secondary in a flash.
“How he can just make people miss is pretty exciting to watch,” Hyde said. “He can hit a quick move and it’s like, ‘Whoa, he just did that?’ His quickness and his speed are pretty sweet to watch.”
It’s possible to see a scenario in which Fickell uses a running backs-by-committee approach. Hall could be used in run-pass situations. Berry could get the bulk of the carries when the possibility of a big run is desired. Hyde and/or Smith could be used in a workhorse role.
“We have a great group of running backs,” Hyde said. “Everybody has got their own abilities. It’s pretty awesome to be around guys like that. Everybody comes out here and competes. They do a good job of spreading us around and letting everybody get the feel of the ball.”
Eventually, though, one or two figure to separate themselves from the pack.
“When you get your opportunities, you have to take advantage of them,” Fickell said. “If you take advantage of them, obviously there will be more opportunities. There’s no substitute for competition.
“I don’t think you come to Ohio State and don’t think you’re going to (have to) compete at every position, but most especially sometimes at the running back spot. I think they all enjoy it and thrive on it. Now we just have to see who’s going to step up.”
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Writerbuckeye
In all my years of following OSU (since 1968) I've never seen a backfield this loaded with talent. Amazingly deep.
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OneBuckeye
I would not want to be the one splitting up the carries. I hope we don't go with one back for whole drives like we have in the past. I like the idea of rotating two backs during a drive depending on lengthy runs and what not. It will be interesting to see how they split them up. Especially with Jhall being at WR at times.
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OneBuckeye
http://theozone.net/football/2011/FallCamp/positionbattles_offense.html
Top Offensive Position Battles of Camp
By Brandon Castel
COLUMBUS, Ohio — It has been a spirited fall camp thus far for Ohio State and first-year Head Coach Luke Fickell.
Per Fickell’s orders, the Buckeyes are using football as much-needed therapy for a punishing off-season, and it has led to some pretty entertaining positions battles this fall.
As expected, all eyes are glued to the quarterback position as four players vie to replace Terrelle Pryor, but there’s plenty of action happening on both sides of the ball.
We start with the offensive position battles to watch throughout the rest of camp.
QUARTERBACK
Joe Bauserman
Photo by Jim Davidson
Front Runner: Joe Bauserman
After Tuesday’s practice there is an actual chance that Bauserman will get more than just an obligatory start in the season-opener against Akron. It’s important not to overvalue the importance of one practice, but if Bauserman can show that type of command and confidence the rest of camp, he could actually hold on to the top spot.
Challenger: Braxton Miller
Considering how far Miller has come in less than week, it’s scary to think what he could do before the end of camp. He is playing with a lot of poise and confidence for a young kid and that could carry him to the top. Right now he is slightly behind Bauserman in the quarterback battle, and it’s feasible they could play both of them.
Dark Horse: Kenny Guiton
Despite what Fickell says about the new rotation being a way to test all four quarterbacks, it is clear that Guiton and Taylor Graham haven fallen behind the other two. The fact Guiton is now behind a true freshman who has only been on campus since January doesn’t look good, but it’s too early to rule him out of it completely.
TAILBACK
Jamaal Berry
Photo by Jim Davidson
Front Runner: Jaamal Berry
Let’s assume for a moment that Jordan Hall is going to be involved in a little bit of everything the Buckeyes do offensively. That leaves Berry as the top candidate to replace Boom Herron as the true feature back for the at least the first five games of the season. Berry is small and quick like Hall, but he is also explosively powerful and looks like he could handle the load of carrying the ball 20 times a game.
Challenger: Carlos Hyde
There may not be a back on the roster who is asked to carry the ball 20 times per game, but that might change if Hyde continues to run the way he has as of late. A powerful back with a violent running style, Hyde has also added speed to her arsenal and he is making a move for the top spot.
Dark Horse: Rod Smith
Some recruitniks might be surprised to see Smith make the list as a dark horse rather than a front-runner, but the redshirt freshman just hasn’t shown enough consistently to make a push. He is big and strong with good speed and an unusually elusive running style for back who is 6-3 an 230 pounds. The only thing holding him back, other than the guys in front of him, is his understanding of the offense and his knowledge of what it takes to pick up consistent chunks of yardage.
SPLIT END Verlon Reed
Photo by Jim Davidson
Front Runner: Verlon Reed
What an off-season it has been for the redshirt freshman out of Marion Franklin. After coming into the spring as a complete outsider at the receiver position, Reed is in position to start the season as a starter across from Corey Brown. He is big and physical, but also deceptively fast and he has really embraced the role with DeVier Posey set to miss five games.
Challenger: T.Y. Williams
Contrarily, it hasn’t been a great fall for Williams, but the Cleveland native is still in the hunt simply because of his unusual size. He has good speed and he’s learning to get in and out of his cuts, but the dropped passes are hard to overcome.
Dark Horse: Devin Smith
It is getting to the point where it’s only a matter of ‘where’ Smith is going to play this fall, not ‘if.’ The true freshman out of Massillon has been a student of the game since his arrival back in June and it is paying off. He is already making veteran plays and his hands and toughness will likely keep him in the mix all season. -
Scarlet_Buckeye
I think we have a lot of people on here wearing scarlet & gray glasses.
(1) We lost our head coach. We're breaking in a new head coach, and not just a new head coach, but a first time head coach at that. I know the philosophy will largely remain the same (i.e., Tressel ball), and I know many expect us to get by on talent alone, but there's a reason why great teams have great coaches. And sure Fickell can turn out to be an All-Star head coach, but I have to imagine that a new head coach will attribute to at least 1 loss.
(2) We're breaking in a new QB. We have some serious questions as to who our QB is going to be. The early favorite, or should I say fan favorite, is TRUE FRESHMAN Braxton Miller. Not even Tim Tebow himself came in his freshman season and started. And this is THE most important position on the entire field. I gotta believe that breaking in a new QB will cost us at least 1 game; and if it's a true freshman (i.e., Braxton Miller), I think you can add another game ontop of that.
(3) We're missing 4 key players for the first 5 games. Starting left tackle (arguably the 2nd most important position on a football team, starting running back, star wide receiver, and a key defensive end (a position which we're already thin at). It's not the fact that we're missing 4 key players, it's the fact that we're missing our starting LT, #1 RB, #1 WR, and [what would have been] our #1 QB. That alone will contribute to 1 loss [in my mind].
(4) Significant youth on our depth chart, combined with a pretty abysmal linebacking core. While youth is typically a sign of talent emerging, in our case, I think it's a sign of inexperience and the lack of surrounding talent. From what I'm seeing, I think this will be one of the weakest LB cores we've had in quite some time. There's no Hawk, Laurinaitis, or even a Homan, in this group [IMO]. I think that will be a loss right there.
(5) We're bound to lose 1 B1G game in which we have no business losing. More often than not, teams lose one conference game in which they have no business losing (except for Championship years, which this clearly is not). One need not look any further than Purdue in '09 and Illinois in '07. It just happens. Thus, I believe we will lose 1 B1G game that we have no business losing (excluding Wisconsin, because I think that is a for sure "L").
So when you add it all up, I think we're easily looking at 4 losses this season. I'm not saying we're going to lose 4, but I certainly would not be surprised. I think 4 is the O/U. I think 3 is probably extremely likely, and I don't think 5 is that far of a reach [as some on here think it is]. I would argue there's an 85% chance we lose 3 games this season, and I think there's a 65% chance we lose 4. -
Writerbuckeye
Before AJ Hawk became the starting LB, he was a nobody.
Before Homan became the starting LB, he was a nobody.
You can pretty much go back and find one or two of these guys in the linebacking corps every couple years or so as the players turn over. Just because you think they don't have much depth or talent doesn't make it so.
I'll go on record now as saying this has the potential to be one of OSU's best defenses this decade. As good as last year? Maybe not, but still damn good. It's very deep in the back 7, especially when you consider how often a third LB will be off the field and another safety brought on because of spread offenses.
The biggest loss from last year is obviously Tressel and we don't know how Fickell is going to do on that front. Pryor is obviously the second biggest loss and it's huge not having experience at that position.
But this team has the talent to win 10 plus games if it gets just AVERAGE play from the QB spot.
I guess we'll see. Either these guys are going to pull together under Fickell and have a very good year, or they are going to hit some hardships and fall apart.
I don't see anything in-between. -
WebFire
Huh? LOLWriterbuckeye;865483 wrote:I'll go on record now as saying this has the potential to be one of OSU's best defenses this decade. As good as last year? Maybe not, but still damn good.
Wouldn't that make it their worst defense of the decade? -
OneBuckeye
This.Writerbuckeye;865483 wrote:But this team has the talent to win 10 plus games if it gets just AVERAGE play from the QB spot.
1. I agree chalk up a loss for Tress
2. I'll agree half on this. We will find out how much Pryor really meant to us. Unfortunately since Tressel isn't the O coordinator and calling plays I don't think it will be apples to apples. I think we could see a better or worse offense based on a new O-Coordinator more than the loss of Pryor. Lets face it he had a lot of great and bad plays. He didn't rack up the passing yards but killed teams with his legs. I think Miller could be comperable, not as good yet, but close.
3. Posey will be the only one that hurts us. We are loaded everywhere else. Thomas is a backup DE, not significant. I think we can beat MSU and Miami without them. Posey is the only one though that matters.
4. This is a bunch of crap. These kids were highly recruited coming out of school, Sweat played great last year out of position. Klien played well in limited action. Like Writer said. Hawk, Lauranitis, Homan etc were all ? marks before they stepped on the field.
5. This could happen.
I think you have 3 losses max. MSU or Miami. Nebraska Wisconsin or Illinois. They are too good to lose them all. This is a top 5 team if Pryor was back and we had 0 suspensions. We should be top 10 without. -
Writerbuckeye
WebFire;865489 wrote:Huh? LOL
Wouldn't that make it their worst defense of the decade?
Okay, troll. I misspoke and should have written IN THE PAST DECADE. Happy now? -
dat dudeScarlet_Buckeye;865398 wrote:I think we have a lot of people on here wearing scarlet & gray glasses.
(1) We lost our head coach. We're breaking in a new head coach, and not just a new head coach, but a first time head coach at that. I know the philosophy will largely remain the same (i.e., Tressel ball), and I know many expect us to get by on talent alone, but there's a reason why great teams have great coaches. And sure Fickell can turn out to be an All-Star head coach, but I have to imagine that a new head coach will attribute to at least 1 loss.
(2) We're breaking in a new QB. We have some serious questions as to who our QB is going to be. The early favorite, or should I say fan favorite, is TRUE FRESHMAN Braxton Miller. Not even Tim Tebow himself came in his freshman season and started. And this is THE most important position on the entire field. I gotta believe that breaking in a new QB will cost us at least 1 game; and if it's a true freshman (i.e., Braxton Miller), I think you can add another game ontop of that.
(3) We're missing 4 key players for the first 5 games. Starting left tackle (arguably the 2nd most important position on a football team, starting running back, star wide receiver, and a key defensive end (a position which we're already thin at). It's not the fact that we're missing 4 key players, it's the fact that we're missing our starting LT, #1 RB, #1 WR, and [what would have been] our #1 QB. That alone will contribute to 1 loss [in my mind].
(4) Significant youth on our depth chart, combined with a pretty abysmal linebacking core. While youth is typically a sign of talent emerging, in our case, I think it's a sign of inexperience and the lack of surrounding talent. From what I'm seeing, I think this will be one of the weakest LB cores we've had in quite some time. There's no Hawk, Laurinaitis, or even a Homan, in this group [IMO]. I think that will be a loss right there.
(5) We're bound to lose 1 B1G game in which we have no business losing. More often than not, teams lose one conference game in which they have no business losing (except for Championship years, which this clearly is not). One need not look any further than Purdue in '09 and Illinois in '07. It just happens. Thus, I believe we will lose 1 B1G game that we have no business losing (excluding Wisconsin, because I think that is a for sure "L").
So when you add it all up, I think we're easily looking at 4 losses this season. I'm not saying we're going to lose 4, but I certainly would not be surprised. I think 4 is the O/U. I think 3 is probably extremely likely, and I don't think 5 is that far of a reach [as some on here think it is]. I would argue there's an 85% chance we lose 3 games this season, and I think there's a 65% chance we lose 4.
I should have just stopped reading after the "scarlet and gray glasses" line. Then, I should have stopped after you identified Solomon Thomas as a "key defensive end." I did stop after the "abysmal linebacking core." Honestly, I'm not sure you're familiar with the roster. The WR corps is definitely an area of concern moreso than the group of LBs.
Your first two points, however, do have some bearing. How much, is obviously the unknown. An injury to Braxton is the only way this team loses five games, imo. The schedule is not that difficult and OSU has reloaded with talent. I would be disappointed if OSU was not 5-0 heading into Lincoln, Nebraska.