Is RichRod safe at Michigan

• centralbucksfan

  WebFire;539381 wrote:At 8pm last night, I thought he was safe. At 8am today, not so much.
  
  I'm afraid Purdue is the only win left. 6-6 and 2-6 in the Big 10 in his 3rd year isn't gonna fly. The only thing that might keep him here is David Brandon, the AD. But Brandon will get a lot of pressure to fire him.
  
  If he does stay, it must be under the condition that he fires (most of) the defensive staff. Problem is, bringing in a new DC is not going to immediately fix the defense.

  
  I'd agree, the only win left right now, is Purdue. Sure, an upset could happen. But that defense is so bad...no matter how good the offense is, the defense can't get a stop for the life of them.
  
  I'd find it hard to believe RichRod would get the benefit of getting any conditions with everything thats gone on the past 3yrs. He was on thin ice coming into this season....now he is bobbing in the water yelling for help in the middle of nowhere.
• dlazz

  Michigan has an awesome offense, don't get me wrong. But it's only worth something if your defense isn't terrible, and that's where they're shooting themselves in the foot. It seems to me like they focused 90% of their practices on coaching up the offense and then when they started playing decent teams it came back to bite them in the ass because they stopped scoring 50pts a game.
• Hb31187

  

  Bringing in a new D coord wouldnt solve everything. But bringing in a new D coord and implementing a basic 4-3 defense would make them at least mediocre...and with that offense mediocre defense will win some games.
• Cleveland Buck

  

  A mediocre defense with that offense would be .500 in the conference. If that's where you want Michigan to be as a program, go for it.
• Hb31187

  

  Not saying thats what we want, But itd certainly be a step in the right direction instead of trying to keep the 3-3-5 going.
• bo shemmy3337

  RR is as good as gone and so is everyone on his staff. 6-6 is where they most likely will finish but even that might not happen. They have the worst defense I have ever seen and picking them to beat any big 10 team is a stretch IMO.
• ytownfootball

  

  I actually think Illinois is going to put it to UM this week. They aren't a bad squad.
• bo shemmy3337

  I hope your wrong but I can not disagree. I will be in AA cheering my head off though lol.
• Rider_In_Ttown

  

  ytownfootball;540170 wrote:I actually think Illinois is going to put it to UM this week. They aren't a bad squad.

  I think that is why everyone is putting them at 6-6 with a win against Purdue. Illinois hasn't lost to a team with more than 1 loss all year (Missouri, OSU, & Sparty). They are a very good football team. I would be surprised if they beat Illinois.
• Tiernan

  Maybe DickRod and Coach Scissor Lift can package themselves as a two-fer to some D3 school looking for a new coach at the end of the season?
• krambman

  

  WebFire;539381 wrote:At 8pm last night, I thought he was safe. At 8am today, not so much.
  
  I'm afraid Purdue is the only win left. 6-6 and 2-6 in the Big 10 in his 3rd year isn't gonna fly. The only thing that might keep him here is David Brandon, the AD. But Brandon will get a lot of pressure to fire him.
  
  If he does stay, it must be under the condition that he fires (most of) the defensive staff. Problem is, bringing in a new DC is not going to immediately fix the defense.

  
  I think you're pretty much spot on. I think their defensive issues have a lot less to do with coaching and scheme than they do with talent though. They are playing way too many freshman and have something like two scholarship players in the secondary? I'm not sure how that happens at a school like Michigan. Has he only offered scholarships to offensive players the last few years?
  
  I think that even at 6-6 and 2-6 in the conference (that would give him a grand total 5-19 in conference and he already has two more conference losses than Jim Tressel has in his 10 seasons at OSU) he still may be given one more year. As I said earlier, a lot of people think that three years isn't enough time to give a coach (although I think at this point we know what we're going to get with RichRod and it's obvious that he's in way over his head there). If he does get canned this year I think that they will try and spin it as having more to do with his off field stuff than his record. I also think that they will consider what coaches will be available and who they could hire if they fired him at the end of this year. They'll use one of those firms to put feelers out first to find out if they could get someone they wanted if they let him go. There's a lot more going into this decision than just his record.
• bo shemmy3337

  krambman;540746 wrote:I think you're pretty much spot on. I think their defensive issues have a lot less to do with coaching and scheme than they do with talent though. They are playing way too many freshman and have something like two scholarship players in the secondary? I'm not sure how that happens at a school like Michigan. Has he only offered scholarships to offensive players the last few years?
  
  I think that even at 6-6 and 2-6 in the conference (that would give him a grand total 5-19 in conference and he already has two more conference losses than Jim Tressel has in his 10 seasons at OSU) he still may be given one more year. As I said earlier, a lot of people think that three years isn't enough time to give a coach (although I think at this point we know what we're going to get with RichRod and it's obvious that he's in way over his head there). If he does get canned this year I think that they will try and spin it as having more to do with his off field stuff than his record. I also think that they will consider what coaches will be available and who they could hire if they fired him at the end of this year. They'll use one of those firms to put feelers out first to find out if they could get someone they wanted if they let him go. There's a lot more going into this decision than just his record.

  
  There is no question that his record is not the only reason why he is in trouble. Michigan is never in trouble off the field and yet they are now. I would love him to be the offensive coordinator but I don't see that happening. I think he needs to let Greg Robinson do his own thing. Don't tell him what scheme to use and let him completely control the defense. I expect them to be much better on defense next year regardless of who the coach is as they can not be worse and most the players are coming back. They also are going to have many new kids coming in on the defensive side of the ball.
  
  All the worries of his offense not working in the big ten are gone IMO. Michigan is scoring enough points and are still very young on offense IMO. Each of the last 3 games could have made the season IMO and now he has one more chance to do so. This weekend. They have to peat Purdue and they have to win this weekend to guarantee his job for next year IMO. I don't think he will be around for long but I do think he will be back next year. Go Blue and the season is on the line in the next 2 weeks.
• Fly4Fun

  

  krambman;540746 wrote:I think you're pretty much spot on. I think their defensive issues have a lot less to do with coaching and scheme than they do with talent though. They are playing way too many freshman and have something like two scholarship players in the secondary? I'm not sure how that happens at a school like Michigan. Has he only offered scholarships to offensive players the last few years?
  
  I think that even at 6-6 and 2-6 in the conference (that would give him a grand total 5-19 in conference and he already has two more conference losses than Jim Tressel has in his 10 seasons at OSU) he still may be given one more year. As I said earlier, a lot of people think that three years isn't enough time to give a coach (although I think at this point we know what we're going to get with RichRod and it's obvious that he's in way over his head there). If he does get canned this year I think that they will try and spin it as having more to do with his off field stuff than his record. I also think that they will consider what coaches will be available and who they could hire if they fired him at the end of this year. They'll use one of those firms to put feelers out first to find out if they could get someone they wanted if they let him go. There's a lot more going into this decision than just his record.

  bo shemmy3337;542443 wrote:There is no question that his record is not the only reason why he is in trouble. Michigan is never in trouble off the field and yet they are now. I would love him to be the offensive coordinator but I don't see that happening. I think he needs to let Greg Robinson do his own thing. Don't tell him what scheme to use and let him completely control the defense. I expect them to be much better on defense next year regardless of who the coach is as they can not be worse and most the players are coming back. They also are going to have many new kids coming in on the defensive side of the ball.
  
  All the worries of his offense not working in the big ten are gone IMO. Michigan is scoring enough points and are still very young on offense IMO. Each of the last 3 games could have made the season IMO and now he has one more chance to do so. This weekend. They have to peat Purdue and they have to win this weekend to guarantee his job for next year IMO. I don't think he will be around for long but I do think he will be back next year. Go Blue and the season is on the line in the next 2 weeks.

  Michigan is never in trouble off the field? I'm sorry, but under LLoyd Carr's coaching tenure they had problems. Every school has problems... that's because we are dealing with young male athletes who inherently make stupid decisions. Some programs tend to recruit more bonehead players than others... but to pretend that any school is immune from this is laughable.
  
  Also, I think the 3 year rule applies if a coach is doing somewhat well according to the history of the program both old and recent. As far as RichRod goes though, I do not believe he has been doing at least mediocre based on the recent success of Michigan... it's not as if he was starting out fresh at Rutgers or some crappy school. I was one of the many that said RichRod was going to be a bad hire for Michigan just like I said it for Charlie Weis at Notre Dame. The sooner that UM dumps Rich Rod an his gimmick offense with a lack of a defense the better. Michigan needs to find a coach who knows how to get a competent defense to have a chance in the Big 10.
• bo shemmy3337

  Fly4Fun;542462 wrote:Michigan is never in trouble off the field? I'm sorry, but under LLoyd Carr's coaching tenure they had problems. Every school has problems... that's because we are dealing with young male athletes who inherently make stupid decisions. Some programs tend to recruit more bonehead players than others... but to pretend that any school is immune from this is laughable.
  
  Also, I think the 3 year rule applies if a coach is doing somewhat well according to the history of the program both old and recent. As far as RichRod goes though, I do not believe he has been doing at least mediocre based on the recent success of Michigan... it's not as if he was starting out fresh at Rutgers or some crappy school. I was one of the many that said RichRod was going to be a bad hire for Michigan just like I said it for Charlie Weis at Notre Dame. The sooner that UM dumps Rich Rod an his gimmick offense with a lack of a defense the better. Michigan needs to find a coach who knows how to get a competent defense to have a chance in the Big 10.

  
  Sure every team has issues but Michigan normally does not have problems this bad. This is not just a kid getting a dui or something like that. As far as the offense, it is working IMO. They are still very young and have much room to improve and they are scoring enough points to win most big ten games right now. The defense has looked worse every year since RR has got there. Because of this I would have no problem if he is fired today or if he stays another year. Bad luck is not a good excuse in terms of talent on the defensive side of the ball IMO. They are very young ans will get better but how much? that will be determined next year if RR gets a shot at one more year. IF there is still not much improvement next year than he has to go IMO.
• bo shemmy3337

  Also he would have a better shot at winning 8 or 9 games in year 3 at a team like Rutgers as Michigan was a complete transformation on offense. The line was to heavy and slow and they did not have a QB nor enough WR's IMO. Plus this offense in not the easiest thing to learn. But like I said, the Offense is fine right now and the whole reason why this is even a thread is because the defense can not stop anyone. If they had an average defense they would be 6-2 and would be favored to be 8-2 before the last 2 games and his job would be fine.
• WebFire

  bo shemmy3337;542443 wrote:I expect them to be much better on defense next year regardless of who the coach is as they can not be worse and most the players are coming back. They also are going to have many new kids coming in on the defensive side of the ball.

  While no one thought the defense would be good, this was the same thought coming into this year. How could it be any worse? Well, the defense is arguably worse than last year.
• bo shemmy3337

  WebFire;542496 wrote:While no one thought the defense would be good, this was the same thought coming into this year. How could it be any worse? Well, the defense is arguably worse than last year.

  
  I agree but they don't seem to be looking to change the scheme again and most the players need experience IMO and will improve. Also new guys coming in can not hurt and this defense is so bad this year I really think they are one of the worst in the NCAA so it would be almost impossible for them to get worse haha.
• Fly4Fun

  

  While the chance of them getting worse isn't likely... that doesn't preclude them staying the same level of awfulness or perhaps only getting slightly better which really doesn't make a big difference.
  
  As a coach you should always expect your athletes to get better as long as they are putting in some time and still growing. But the quality of the time put in and the quality of the instruction is what really counts. The current coaching regime at Michigan hasn't shown me anything to expect that the defense will reach the standard Michigan should be at on defense.
• krambman

  

  bo shemmy3337;542443 wrote:All the worries of his offense not working in the big ten are gone IMO. Michigan is scoring enough points and are still very young on offense IMO. Each of the last 3 games could have made the season IMO and now he has one more chance to do so. This weekend. They have to peat Purdue and they have to win this weekend to guarantee his job for next year IMO. I don't think he will be around for long but I do think he will be back next year. Go Blue and the season is on the line in the next 2 weeks.

  
  If I were a Michigan fan I would still be worried about his offense working in the Big Ten. His offense is only successful if he has the right QB to run it, and let's be honest, that kind of QB is hard to find. Guys like Pat White and Denard Robinson don't come along every year. It doesn't just take having a great athlete in the backfield, but you need someone smart enough to read the defense and make the right decisions. If it only took a great athlete then Denard would have been the starter last season. He has admitted that he didn't understand the offense last year and that he's only been so successful this year because he understands what RichRod wants him to do.
  
  Also if you look back at college football over the last 10 years Florida is the only team with an offense similar to what Michigan runs that has made it to the title game (and it isn't the same offense because really no one but Michigan used the zone read as their base offense). Also, the teams that have won the national championship the past 10-15 years haven't necessarily been teams with outstanding offenses, but they've almost all had great defenses (so the old saying holds true). I'm not saying that Michigan or any team running a similar offense can't be successful and win a national championship, but there are a lot of teams now running similar systems and the evidence up to this point shows that it's not a national championship system.
• strongbad

  I am one Michigan fan that is tired of Rich Rod's gimmick offense that IMO will never "work" in the Big Ten, I like Denard Robinson but the pounding he takes in the Big Ten is obviously too much. In no way should a Michigan defense (lower cased for a reason) be as bad as this current version. Honestly I've heard people talking that Lloyd left the cupboards bare but it wasn't that long ago that Michigan was a Shawn Crable "late/errgh why'd you do that", hit on Troy Smith away from a title shot. I'd loved to have had Ryan Mallett these last few years (with J. Harbaugh as coach).
• WebFire

  strongbad;542874 wrote:I am one Michigan fan that is tired of Rich Rod's gimmick offense that IMO will never "work" in the Big Ten, I like Denard Robinson but the pounding he takes in the Big Ten is obviously too much. In no way should a Michigan defense (lower cased for a reason) be as bad as this current version. Honestly I've heard people talking that Lloyd left the cupboards bare but it wasn't that long ago that Michigan was a Shawn Crable "late/errgh why'd you do that", hit on Troy Smith away from a title shot. I'd loved to have had Ryan Mallett these last few years (with J. Harbaugh as coach).

  
  I think the offense is fine, and DOES work in the Big 10. The problem right now is they don't have a good back to take the heat off of the QB. So right now he does have to do it all. If they had a good feature back this offense would be downright scary.
  
  Now the defense...
• mucalum49

  

  I was going to write that I think Rich Rod is safe IMO because no new coach would be exposed to Alabama, Boise, Nebraska, OSU their first season because if the team is still down then the change wouldn't show much progress with such a tough schedule. Yet before I posted I saw that UM plays those teams in 2012. Next year their nonconference actually sets up to where I think if they are unsure about Rich Rod they may make a move sooner than later. Next year's schedule of Western Michigan, Eastern Michigan, ND, and San Diego State is a lot more favorable and allows for a new coach to still succeed even if there are some bumps in the road.
• krambman

  

  mucalum49;543440 wrote:I was going to write that I think Rich Rod is safe IMO because no new coach would be exposed to Alabama, Boise, Nebraska, OSU their first season because if the team is still down then the change wouldn't show much progress with such a tough schedule. Yet before I posted I saw that UM plays those teams in 2012. Next year their nonconference actually sets up to where I think if they are unsure about Rich Rod they may make a move sooner than later. Next year's schedule of Western Michigan, Eastern Michigan, ND, and San Diego State is a lot more favorable and allows for a new coach to still succeed even if there are some bumps in the road.

  
  You make a really good point here (although it's Michigan State, not Michigan that plays Boise). If Michigan retains RichRod his head will still be on the chopping block next year (and how he does in conference will be the key yet again). Since Michigan is a very young team this year they will likely improve next year. Also, the Big Ten sets up well for them to do better next season as many of the top teams are senior laden and will lose key players this off season (I believe that Cousins, Stanzi, and Tolzien are all seniors). However, with their schedule in 2012, it's likely that Michigan may struggle again, and that they might finally let him go. It would be wise for the school to consider this possibility and consider the fact that it may be best to fire him and bring in a coach now instead of after the 2012 season. Basically it will come down to this: whether or not the power-that-be think that he can continue to make progress and get the program back to a place where they are contending for a National Championship. If they don't think that he can (and can soon) then they will let him go and hire someone they think can get the job done. Either way I wouldn't feel too bad as a Michigan fan because right now it looks like you'll be back contending far sooner than Notre Dame will.
• bo shemmy3337

  krambman;543486 wrote:You make a really good point here (although it's Michigan State, not Michigan that plays Boise). If Michigan retains RichRod his head will still be on the chopping block next year (and how he does in conference will be the key yet again). Since Michigan is a very young team this year they will likely improve next year. Also, the Big Ten sets up well for them to do better next season as many of the top teams are senior laden and will lose key players this off season (I believe that Cousins, Stanzi, and Tolzien are all seniors). However, with their schedule in 2012, it's likely that Michigan may struggle again, and that they might finally let him go. It would be wise for the school to consider this possibility and consider the fact that it may be best to fire him and bring in a coach now instead of after the 2012 season. Basically it will come down to this: whether or not the power-that-be think that he can continue to make progress and get the program back to a place where they are contending for a National Championship. If they don't think that he can (and can soon) then they will let him go and hire someone they think can get the job done. Either way I wouldn't feel too bad as a Michigan fan because right now it looks like you'll be back contending far sooner than Notre Dame will.

  
  I agree with you. If they do decide to go with a different coach, I really hope they bring in a guy who runs a similar system on offense, otherwise we will be in the 3 year window again. I would love to see him become the OC but I don't see that happening.
  
  Also to those who think his offense has to be run option first are wrong IMO. When he was at Tulsa, they were actually pass first. He can work with other QB's. I am not the least bit worried on offense as they are very young on both sides of the ball. But defense is getting worse every year IMO.
• WebFire

  Defense just got worse, lost JT Floyd for the year.