9/18: Notre Dame at Michigan State
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killer_ewok
sherm03;489308 wrote:Alright, I didn't want to post last night because I was completely hammered and it would have come out as complete gibberish.
It was a delay of game. But I was always told not to be in a position where one play could cost you the game. ND shouldn't have even been in that position...so I don't blame the clock.
There's a lot of blame for this game...
Brian Kelly takes the brunt of the blame in my book. How can you be a "ballsy coach" that goes for the endzone last week before half against Michigan instead of kicking the field goal, and then just let time run out at the end of regulation this week against State? He runs a draw play to Allen, and has 26 seconds and a time out and only needs a field goal, and he takes the headset off and gets ready for OT. You are in your first road game at Notre Dame...go for the fucking win in regulation! Why you play that not to lose...instead of playing to win...is beyond me!
Where did the run game go in the first half. I know Allen got hurt, but Cierre Wood might be just as good, if not better...but I think I could count on one hand the amount of times we handed the ball off after that TD drive in the first quarter. Michigan State is rushing 3 and dropping 8 into coverage...and we're not running draws or that zone read that has worked EVERY TIME THEY RUN IT?!?! Run the damn ball...because Crist just isn't that good...
Which leads me to Dayne. I blame a lot of this on the fact that Charlie Weis probably didn't do shit to get him ready to play...but Crist shit the bed in that first half. Even at times in the second half. He has no touch on the ball and was throwing it over Floyd's head and at Allen and Rudolph's feet. You can't even blame it on the line not giving him time, because he had all day to throw the ball. With a weapon like Floyd, he has to learn to lead him and get that touch to throw it where Floyd can get a hand on it. I thought we had Nate Montana taking snaps during that first half...because Crist looked like shit!
The defense is in position quite often...but they are not big enough to try to blast someone with a shoulder to take them down. Put your head in the guy's chest...and WRAP THE FUCK UP!! Gary Gray and Darrin Walls went back to their usual shitty selves tonight. I actually saw Darrin Walls get beat on a 3 yard slant in man-to-man coverage...and was beat so bad he wasn't even in the screen on the tackle. Harrison Smith is the worst player to ever put on a Notre Dame uniform. I still don't know how that kid sees the field...ever!!
So basically...yes, the delay of game penalty fucked over Notre Dame...but there was a lot of other things to blame besides that. I'm still not sold on Kelly, and the defense is slowing looking like the D of last year.
In any case...I said ND would be lucky to go 4-2 in these first 6 games...and 3-3 would be more realistic. They are still in position to do that. So let's see what happens. I just have a horrible feeling that they are going to be 1-5 going into the second half of the year...and just like last year, all the losses are going to be by 7 points or less.
I respectfully disagree with several things.....
Cierre Wood ran like a bitch on kickoff returns. I think he's very talented but you can't go into Spartan Stadium pussyfootin' around and that's what he was doing. I have no reason to believe that he would've got it done when Allen was out.
I think Crist is pretty damn good. He's far from perfect and could definitely improve the touch on the deep ball but he is, without a doubt, our best option at QB. His numbers last night were outstanding. Unfortunately, it didn't result in a win. He'll get better with experience. Sure, he threw a couple bad passes but what QB doesn't? Crist is the least of my worries.
I thought Gray and Walls played pretty decent last night and have been pretty good this year. I'll agree about Harrison Smith playing like ass. And Te'o shouldn't get a pass here either. He misses too many tackles. There was a 3rd and long for MSU late in the 3rd qtr and Te'o had the MSU player dead to rights and he failed to wrap him up. That's become a problem for Te'o this season. The defense is worrying me. The numbers are awful but somehow they still look better than they have in year's past IMO. But, the results are still the same so it doesn't mean much.
As far as the "ballsy" comment. I still think ND went for it at the end of the half last week because they weren't sure Crist was coming back so those opportunities to score TD's might not be there in the 2nd half so try to get 6 now. Last night, he went conservative there I guess but I didn't have a big problem letting the clock run out to go to OT. If not for a phantom block in the back call on ND's punt return right before that.....I think Kelly would've went for it as they would've had better field position.
I'll be pissed if ND is still losing like this in year 3 under Kelly. But in the first 3 games of year 1......I mean, we've got to have patience and assume/hope that they'll get better and not make some of the same errors that they make now. Weis' teams were as good as they were going to right off the bat....and then they regressed. Maybe it will be the opposite under Kelly. I'm sure as hell hoping that's the case. We'll see. -
rock_knutnecentralbucksfan;489363 wrote:Remember this as well...when your team gives up 200+yds rushing, and almost 500yds in total offense...they will rarely win a game.
:rolleyes: -
rock_knutne
Great post killer and I couldn't agree more!killer_ewok;489370 wrote:I respectfully disagree with several things.....
Cierre Wood ran like a bitch on kickoff returns. I think he's very talented but you can't go into Spartan Stadium pussyfootin' around and that's what he was doing. I have no reason to believe that he would've got it done when Allen was out.
I think Crist is pretty damn good. He's far from perfect and could definitely improve the touch on the deep ball but he is, without a doubt, our best option at QB. His numbers last night were outstanding. Unfortunately, it didn't result in a win. He'll get better with experience. Sure, he threw a couple bad passes but what QB doesn't? Crist is the least of my worries.
I thought Gray and Walls played pretty decent last night and have been pretty good this year. I'll agree about Harrison Smith playing like ass. And Te'o shouldn't get a pass here either. He misses too many tackles. There was a 3rd and long for MSU late in the 3rd qtr and Te'o had the MSU player dead to rights and he failed to wrap him up. That's become a problem for Te'o this season. The defense is worrying me. The numbers are awful but somehow they still look better than they have in year's past IMO. But, the results are still the same so it doesn't mean much.
As far as the "ballsy" comment. I still think ND went for it at the end of the half because they weren't sure Crist was coming back so those opportunities to score TD's might not be there in the 2nd half so try to get 6 now. Last night, he went conservative there I guess but I didn't have a big problem letting the clock run out to go to OT. If not for a phantom block in the back call on ND's punt return right before that.....I think Kelly would've went for it as they would've had better field position.
I'll be pissed if ND is still losing like this in year 3 under Kelly. But in the first 3 games of year 1......I mean, we've go to have patience and assume/hope that they'll get better and not make some of the same errors that they make now. Weis' teams were as played as good as they were going to right off the bat....and then they regressed. Maybe it will be the opposite under Kelly. I'm sure as hell hoping that's the case. We'll see.
I'll say it again, Kelly's first year to this point reminds me a lot of Holtz's first year. They were close on so many situations and had a defense that played better but was not quite there yet. -
killer_ewok
centralbucksfan;489363 wrote:Remember this as well...when your team gives up 200+yds rushing, and almost 500yds in total offense...they will rarely win a game.
Thanks, bud! Appreciate it! -
-Society-
Anyone have anymore tissues for these Notre Dame fans? -
killer_ewok
-Society-;489410 wrote:Anyone have anymore tissues for these Notre Dame fans?
I'll take two boxes. -
Midstate01
I just read that Dantonio had a heart attack last night, but is doing well this morning. I'm trying to find a better link then Twitter. -
Fly4Fun
Eh, if the source is twitter I wouldn't necessarily trust it. I feel like if MSU's head coach had a hearth attack ESPN would probably have had a story on it already especially considering the ending of that game. -
karen lotz
Depends on whose twitter he saw it on. A lot of the ESPN guys use twitter as their first way to report stuff they hear. -
Midstate01
I have a link. Getting on my computer to post it.
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Fly4Fun
karen lotz;489455 wrote:Depends on whose twitter he saw it on. A lot of the ESPN guys use twitter as their first way to report stuff they hear.
This is kind of true, but I still would be weary. I'm sure you have seen how "short" some initial articles are... only two paragraphs. I feel like they might use Twitter for things they aren't completely sure about and don't want to make "official" yet. -
I drain 3'sJust saw on the bottom line that he had a heart attack and is expected to make a full recovery. Also said he will be out indefinitely and their offensive coordinator will take over for him.
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karen lotz
I dunno, there are a lot of people on twitter and they break a lot of stories there. Its definitely the easiest way for everyone to say they were the first ones reporting. You should have seen it light up when some of the bigger sports stories break.
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ts1227
Just ran across ESPN's bottom line. He's expected to make a full recovery.
Apparently God didn't like him beating ND on a trick play?
I kid, all the best to coach. -
sherm03
I can't disagree with that. Wood did not look good on the kickoff returns. But that doesn't mean you completely abandon the run. Like I said, State is rushing three and dropping 8 into coverage. Even if Wood is pussyfooting around he should be able to get 3-4 yards against that. And then that brings the safeties in and opens up the pass. You just can't stop running the ball. That's a terrible idea.killer_ewok;489370 wrote:I respectfully disagree with several things.....
Cierre Wood ran like a bitch on kickoff returns. I think he's very talented but you can't go into Spartan Stadium pussyfootin' around and that's what he was doing. I have no reason to believe that he would've got it done when Allen was out.
461 yards of offense...and only 92 of that is on the ground. You have to be at least a little more balanced than that!
Crist is definitely the best option. And he looks good at times. But at other times he looks absolutely atrocious. And maybe this goes back to not running the football to help out the passing game, but he started the game so well and then shit the bed for awhile and had a stretch where he was something like 4 for 18. He got hot again after the half, and looked good again.killer_ewok;489370 wrote:I think Crist is pretty damn good. He's far from perfect and could definitely improve the touch on the deep ball but he is, without a doubt, our best option at QB. His numbers last night were outstanding. Unfortunately, it didn't result in a win. He'll get better with experience. Sure, he threw a couple bad passes but what QB doesn't? Crist is the least of my worries.
Like I said, I blame some of that on Weis not preparing him. The kid is a junior...but playing younger than that because we all know that Weis did not develop younger talent unless they were starters. I just think he looked bad for a good stretch of the first half last night after the TD drive. If he gets the touch on his passes, he could be one of the best QBs in the country. If he doesn't get that touch...he'll be mediocre at best.
Gray didn't play AS bad...but Walls looked like crap all night last night. MSU exposed him, and I can't even begin to count the number of times he was out of position. And I agree, Te'o was the biggest offender of not wrapping up. The defense is eerily similar to last year, and I'm starting to wonder when Kelly's defensive mind that I heard all about when he was hired will show up. They are flying to the ball a lot better than in years past...but the lack of fundamentals (read: wrapping up) and the complete lack of speed on the defense is VERY worrisome to me.killer_ewok;489370 wrote:I thought Gray and Walls played pretty decent last night and have been pretty good this year. I'll agree about Harrison Smith playing like ass. And Te'o shouldn't get a pass here either. He misses too many tackles. There was a 3rd and long for MSU late in the 3rd qtr and Te'o had the MSU player dead to rights and he failed to wrap him up. That's become a problem for Te'o this season. The defense is worrying me. The numbers are awful but somehow they still look better than they have in year's past IMO. But, the results are still the same so it doesn't mean much.
killer_ewok;489370 wrote:As far as the "ballsy" comment. I still think ND went for it at the end of the half last week because they weren't sure Crist was coming back so those opportunities to score TD's might not be there in the 2nd half so try to get 6 now. Last night, he went conservative there I guess but I didn't have a big problem letting the clock run out to go to OT. If not for a phantom block in the back call on ND's punt return right before that.....I think Kelly would've went for it as they would've had better field position.
I'll be pissed if ND is still losing like this in year 3 under Kelly. But in the first 3 games of year 1......I mean, we've got to have patience and assume/hope that they'll get better and not make some of the same errors that they make now. Weis' teams were as good as they were going to right off the bat....and then they regressed. Maybe it will be the opposite under Kelly. I'm sure as hell hoping that's the case. We'll see.
I have a huge problem with him letting the clock run out to end regulation. You are in your first big road game in a hostile environment. Going to OT does not favor you in that situation. So if you have the chance to go for the win...do it! You have 33 seconds, a timeout, and the ball on your 37 yard line. You have to get about 25-30 yards to give your kicker a chance to win the game...and with the weapons available, I think that's very doable. It's not likely, but you have to at least try to put yourself in a position to win.
I just hate seeing coaches play it not to lose instead of playing it to win. Especially when you are on the road and you have the chance to at least TRY for the win.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not ready to string Kelly up and run him out of town. But I came into this season cautiously optimistic about him and he hasn't won me over yet. -
Fly4Fun
Guess it was true. I'm still not a fan of twitter though and never will be. I'll wait the extra hour it takes I guess
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sherm03
Best of luck to Coach Dantonio for a full recovery.
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LJ
killer_ewok;489348 wrote:I can admit that.
I'll remember that, cbf.
And I'll leave it at that.
Oh yeah because "possibly" really changes what he said. :rolleyes:
I guess the thing here is....I've seen a lot of people on here go ballistic when ND benefits from a call. When the shoe is on the other foot.....I guess it's just "part of the game." Yeah, if something similar happens to that person's favorite team...I'll be anxiously awaiting to see how well they take it. Something tells me they'll probably need to take their own advice but we'll see if and when it happens.
To make matters worse, even Mark "I hate Notre Dame" May agreed with Rece Davis on College Football Final that MSU's game-tying TD in regulation should not have been allowed since the WR went out of bounds (he wasn't forced out) and came back in and caught the ball and took it in for a TD. But, this is what happens in East Lansing. Remember Clockgate?
The fact that remains is the game is in the books....it won't be overturned no matter how horrible the calls (or non-calls) were.
I mean, you DO realize that the refs were ND's home refs right? It was a Big East crew. -
rock_knutneLJ;489882 wrote:I mean, you DO realize that the refs were ND's home refs right? It was a Big East crew.
And the booth officials were from the Big 10. What's your point? -
LJ
rock_knutne;489937 wrote:And the booth officials were from the Big 10. What's your point?
claiming conspiracy against your own officials is pretty lol.
The Big East confirmed it was correct.
Also, so it doesn't mean shit who the booth officials were."The responsibility is assigned to the Back Judge, who in this situation was standing beneath the upright. Proper mechanics dictate that his focus be directed to the play clock as it approaches zero. When the play clock display reads zero, he must re-direct his attention to the ball. At that time, if the snap has not started, a flag will be thrown for delay of game. If the snap has begun, no flag will be thrown.
"Under these procedures, there will always be a small amount of lag time between the time the clock reads zero and the time the Back Judge is able to see the football.
"On the play in question, this lag time created the situation where it appears the play clock expired just before the snap. We believe the snap occurred well within the normal lag time for the Back Judge to make this determination.
"This play is not reviewable under current NCAA rules." -
Sonofanump"The responsibility is assigned to the Back Judge, who in this situation was standing beneath the upright. Proper mechanics dictate that his focus be directed to the play clock as it approaches zero. When the play clock display reads zero, he must re-direct his attention to the ball. At that time, if the snap has not started, a flag will be thrown for delay of game. If the snap has begun, no flag will be thrown.
"Under these procedures, there will always be a small amount of lag time between the time the clock reads zero and the time the Back Judge is able to see the football.
"On the play in question, this lag time created the situation where it appears the play clock expired just before the snap. We believe the snap occurred well within the normal lag time for the Back Judge to make this determination.
"This play is not reviewable under current NCAA rules."
Looks like a previous post made on this thread. -
dwccrew
LJ;489943 wrote:claiming conspiracy against your own officials is pretty lol.
The Big East confirmed it was correct.
Also, so it doesn't mean shit who the booth officials were.
/end discussion -
killer_ewok
It goes without saying but ND is independent in football. Big East refs aren't "home" refs IMO. Furthermore, a bad/missed call is what it is. I don't care who fucked it up....all I know is they fucked it up. Just like the phantom block in the back called on ND when receiving the punt near the end of regulation and just like the game tying TD by MSU that should not have counted because the MSU player went out of bounds (unforced) and was the first player to touch the ball as he re-entered the playing field. That's illegal. Now what technicality will you find to rationalize those blown calls?LJ;489882 wrote:I mean, you DO realize that the refs were ND's home refs right? It was a Big East crew.
Anyways, when the play/game clock reads all 0's..........I thought that meant delay of game/end of quarter/half/game. It has in every other instance I've seen in 2+ decades of watching football. Now there are lag times and .99 and all of this other shit. Let it happen to your team. I'm guessing a sizable portion of the fan base would be livid and crying foul. -
killer_ewok
sherm03;489486 wrote:I can't disagree with that. Wood did not look good on the kickoff returns. But that doesn't mean you completely abandon the run. Like I said, State is rushing three and dropping 8 into coverage. Even if Wood is pussyfooting around he should be able to get 3-4 yards against that. And then that brings the safeties in and opens up the pass. You just can't stop running the ball. That's a terrible idea.
461 yards of offense...and only 92 of that is on the ground. You have to be at least a little more balanced than that!
Crist is definitely the best option. And he looks good at times. But at other times he looks absolutely atrocious. And maybe this goes back to not running the football to help out the passing game, but he started the game so well and then shit the bed for awhile and had a stretch where he was something like 4 for 18. He got hot again after the half, and looked good again.
Like I said, I blame some of that on Weis not preparing him. The kid is a junior...but playing younger than that because we all know that Weis did not develop younger talent unless they were starters. I just think he looked bad for a good stretch of the first half last night after the TD drive. If he gets the touch on his passes, he could be one of the best QBs in the country. If he doesn't get that touch...he'll be mediocre at best.
Gray didn't play AS bad...but Walls looked like crap all night last night. MSU exposed him, and I can't even begin to count the number of times he was out of position. And I agree, Te'o was the biggest offender of not wrapping up. The defense is eerily similar to last year, and I'm starting to wonder when Kelly's defensive mind that I heard all about when he was hired will show up. They are flying to the ball a lot better than in years past...but the lack of fundamentals (read: wrapping up) and the complete lack of speed on the defense is VERY worrisome to me.
I have a huge problem with him letting the clock run out to end regulation. You are in your first big road game in a hostile environment. Going to OT does not favor you in that situation. So if you have the chance to go for the win...do it! You have 33 seconds, a timeout, and the ball on your 37 yard line. You have to get about 25-30 yards to give your kicker a chance to win the game...and with the weapons available, I think that's very doable. It's not likely, but you have to at least try to put yourself in a position to win.
I just hate seeing coaches play it not to lose instead of playing it to win. Especially when you are on the road and you have the chance to at least TRY for the win.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not ready to string Kelly up and run him out of town. But I came into this season cautiously optimistic about him and he hasn't won me over yet.
Fair enough, sherm. We can agree to disagree on a couple things.