WebFire;1140837 wrote:You are right. I should have said many, not most. And I should have added that most (all?) name their team after something fierce or honorary, or something of prevalence to the area. And none of these reasons are bad.
You are right...
Polar Bears are honorary AND native to Ohio -- but at least they are fierce right?
Oh, Penguins are also native to Ohio AND honorary...okay, okay, it is a reference to some old timey tale of how they had a cold game...
enigmaax;1141062 wrote:I'm not really sure that anyone who named a team "Indians" had anything to do with systematically destroying a culture.
I'm a little confused by the "using that culture's imagery". On one hand, you said that feathers and war paint aren't what defines current Native Americans. So other than the cases where a team is named for a specific tribe (Seminoles, Sioux, etc.), which living Native American do you feel actually "owns" an artistic impression of a fictional character?
When you determine that, then you can answer the next question - to whom exactly should all this money go that you say a team with a generic mascot (Braves, Indians, etc.) should be shelling out? Do you propose they just pick a random group? Draw straws? Paper, rock, scissors? Again, I can agree that the existing Seminole nation might have some claim to royalties. But nobody owns the terms Indian or Redskin or Brave, etc.
It is funny, though, that you are making it about the use of imagery - (as others have alluded to) is it about racism or ****ing copyright infringement? I can understand the racism stance even if I don't agree with it, but when you start with how insulting it is but then say it'd be okay if they grabbed some cash, you're basically just saying they oughtta be whores. Way to stand up for those people!!!
There is two sides...the stereotyping/racism side AND the "honorary" side. That hasn't been that hard to follow.
A) If you are going to "honor" a specific tribe/people group...then do it right. Sort of like the University of Utah has done with the Utes -- I believe there is some kick-back to the tribe as a means of "thanking" them or "honoring" them with being able to use the Utes name/imagery. Same goes for Florida State. That's proper ways to "honor" a people group. It's not about "grabbing cash" or giving "handouts." It's actually "honoring" and "thanking" a people group for what they've gone through as well as giving homage for the tradition/heritage of the land or region.
B) The racism side is calling all Native Americans "Warriors" or "Braves" or "Chiefs." The racism side is using all the feathers, head dressing, tomahawks, arrowheads, etc. saying that those are the "identifiers" of Native Americans. See how that works? Not all Natives identify with those aspects. Just like not all black people identify with "big lips" or "wide noses" or "afros." See how that is a racism/stereotyping?
I have said it before, I don't mind the "Braves" or "Warriors" being used, but is it necessary to give it Native American imagery? Is it necessary to call the Natives "Braves" or "Warriors?" Use the mascots, but it is possible to come up with different mascots and images -- look at what Golden State has done. Using terms like "Indians" and "Redskins" is completely racist -- especially when you use it with stereotypical images and/or language. Chief Wahoo, really? The term "redskin" has forever been a derogatory term for Native Americans...but is okay for a professional sports team?
This is just an example, but what if the term "Buckeye" were a derogatory reference to Africans raised in Europe. Do you think that'd be okay as a mascot? What if it was always well known as that? If that makes sense or you can follow along with it. Teams or institutions would shy away from such derogatory terminology. What if Akron used an Asian mascot? Do you think they'd get thrown under the bus for their reference to a "zipperhead?" You know it would happen...and it should. But somehow, Native American imagery and language has been allowed, no matter how stereotyping or demeaning it is.
Reps to enigmaax. Well said.