Archive

The Indians Mascot

  • lhslep134
    hoops23;1140644 wrote:I think that's a myth. I think they actually changed their name to the Indians because of the Boston Braves.
    It's one of those "half-myths"...the Spiders were sometimes referred to as the Indians when Sockalexis played, so it kind of meshed when it was suggested to change their name and the spin on Braves was brought up.

    So I guess it's not 100% to honor Sockalexis, but if that's a small part of it, it would still be an honor, no?
  • hoops23
    lhslep134;1140669 wrote:It's one of those "half-myths"...the Spiders were sometimes referred to as the Indians when Sockalexis played, so it kind of meshed when it was suggested to change their name and the spin on Braves was brought up.

    So I guess it's not 100% to honor Sockalexis, but if that's a small part of it, it would still be an honor, no?
    I wasn't disagreeing with you or calling you out about your statement... Just heard that it was a myth a while back.. Forget where I heard it at though.
  • OSH
    WebFire;1140622 wrote:And, Chief Wahoo or whatever his name is, isn't mean looking either. So I guess it's ok.
    I am not the one who declared the mascots as "mean."

    I simply showed a picture of their live mascot because you mentioned they were "mean" looking.

    I have never claimed these mascots are used because they are "mean" or anything of the sorts. It's pretty lousy and definitely derogatory if they are used to "strike fear" into their opponents on that athletic field.
    enigmaax;1140624 wrote:This quote(?):
    "it’s about systematically destroying a culture and then using that culture’s imagery as if it belongs to you, which it doesn’t."
    Yessir.
  • Curly J
    hoops23;1140674 wrote:I wasn't disagreeing with you or calling you out about your statement... Just heard that it was a myth a while back.. Forget where I heard it at though.
    Doesn't matter where you heard it hoop23. All that matters is what Wikipedia says about it....(Sarcasm Font and Sarcasm Smiley)
  • WebFire
    OSH;1140680 wrote:I am not the one who declared the mascots as "mean."
    No, but you insinuated it was ok because the mascot you posted wasn't mean.
  • WebFire
    OSH;1140680 wrote:It's pretty lousy and definitely derogatory if they are used to "strike fear" into their opponents on that athletic field.
    LOL. Isn't that the point of most mascots?
  • Pick6
    Maybe the Saints should change their name, it offends all people who aren't Christian.
  • WebFire
    I still want to know about Yankees as well. Certainly not all Northerners like to be called Yankees.
  • Al Bundy
    lhslep134;1140669 wrote:It's one of those "half-myths"...the Spiders were sometimes referred to as the Indians when Sockalexis played, so it kind of meshed when it was suggested to change their name and the spin on Braves was brought up.

    So I guess it's not 100% to honor Sockalexis, but if that's a small part of it, it would still be an honor, no?
    the spiders were a completely different franchise that ended up folding
  • majorspark
    WebFire;1140622 wrote:And, Chief Wahoo or whatever his name is, isn't mean looking either. So I guess it's ok.
    A lot of teams mascots are at times depicted in a cartoonish manner. It has nothing to do with mocking or trying to be derogetory. The old colonel reb mascot of Ole Miss looked pretty cartoonish. I can assure you Ole Miss was not mocking the southern rebs they held dear. But he had to go not because his caricature was mocking confederate rebels and their decendents who fought in civil war, but because some saw colonel reb as a symbol of past southern power. Most teams don't choose mascots because of their percieved inferiority but for their representation of superiorty or because of their positive symbolism.

    Colonel Reb.

  • lhslep134
    Al Bundy;1140702 wrote:the spiders were a completely different franchise that ended up folding
    I know, but it's not like their memory disappeared from the minds of Cleveland baseball fans
  • isadore
    Pick6;1140695 wrote:Maybe the Saints should change their name, it offends all people who aren't Christian.
    more likely Christians are offended by association with the football team. But of course the Christians had better be quiet about it or its concussion time.
  • Al Bundy
    isadore;1140714 wrote:more likely Christians are offended by association with the football team. But of course the Christians had better be quiet about it or its concussion time.
    perhaps the christians should complain about the lions with the history there.
  • bigkahuna
    OSH;1140530 wrote:Like I said, go on a reservation and say "Redskins." What will be the response?

    The SI poll didn't say anything about people saying "Redskins" on the reservation. It's hard to tell what reservations they also polled. But that poll actually is more damaging than others have said...when it says that 69% of Natives and 57% living on reservations feel it's "ok" to use the "Redskins" name. That means there is 30-40% of Native Americans that do not like the usage of the name. That's a pretty large percentage.

    I am definitely not a "bleeding heart liberal." This is something that really opened up my eyes when I spent two years in South Dakota. There just needs to be a sensitivity towards others. It's built around respect -- I feel. I never had this opinion. I would use terms like "Indian giver," "Indian run," "Indian style," or similar terms for things only replace with a different people group. You never know who is around that may be offended, for whatever reason, when using stereotyping terms.

    I know, I know...where does it stop, start, or end? Well, it's pretty simple to not use the term Indian, Jew, or other people group names that may be stereotyping.

    I guarantee you that if the Hawaii Rainbow Warriors used a caricature that happened to stereotype the LGBTQ community...even if 60% were okay with it...that it would be changed. And, rightfully so.

    People don't care how much you know, until they know how much you care. Saying something that may be offensive will never get you anywhere.
    I'm wondering what your take on the bolded part is. Is it ok for Hawaii to call their athletic teams the "Warriors?"

    I'm an all or none type of person. In general people can't spot pick what's ok and what's not. Either it's ok for the Illini, Braves, Redskins, Seminoles, Chiefs, Tarblooders(I always thought this was Native American related) to be named that, or none of them are.
  • majorspark
    bigkahuna;1140730 wrote:I'm wondering what your take on the bolded part is. Is it ok for Hawaii to call their athletic teams the "Warriors?"

    I'm an all or none type of person. In general people can't spot pick what's ok and what's not. Either it's ok for the Illini, Braves, Redskins, Seminoles, Chiefs, Tarblooders(I always thought this was Native American related) to be named that, or none of them are.
    I have always took it as a respect for the fighting spirit of those native groups of people. Rarely does a victor on the battlefield name or allow current names to continue for its states, rivers, lakes, landmarks, and teams of sport after a defeated foe. Perhaps that is why you see native american support to preserve their namesake and fighting spirit in the lands they once held dear.
  • sportchampps
    When I loved in Lawrence Kansas which was home of the second largest Indian college I got to meet many native Americans. The few I got to know or worked with were not offended at all and often joked about the teams. Our one coworker always picked all the indian teams in our office pickem polls each week. The thing people should be worried about is alcohol use amongst native Americans and not some stupid sports team names. If you drove past their college each weekend you would see passed out students in the bleachers from the night before. The drinking led to students dropping out and the school had a 9% graduation rate.
  • believer
    This mascot really pisses me off. It's an affront to oppressed nuts and tree huggers everywhere.

  • bigkahuna
    sportchampps;1140740 wrote:When I loved in Lawrence Kansas which was home of the second largest Indian college I got to meet many native Americans. The few I got to know or worked with were not offended at all and often joked about the teams. Our one coworker always picked all the indian teams in our office pickem polls each week. The thing people should be worried about is alcohol use amongst native Americans and not some stupid sports team names. If you drove past their college each weekend you would see passed out students in the bleachers from the night before. The drinking led to students dropping out and the school had a 9% graduation rate.
    That's a good point, there's more things to worry about then the names of sports teams.
  • OSH
    WebFire;1140693 wrote:LOL. Isn't that the point of most mascots?
    I don't know...is it?

    I guess the Kernels are fierce. So aren't Ceramics. Penguins are too. Boll Weevils are as well.

    Cardinals are fierce too -- I can't tell you how many times the color has scared me. Cornhuskers, Hoosiers, Buckeyes, yada yada yada...
  • OSH
    bigkahuna;1140730 wrote:I'm wondering what your take on the bolded part is. Is it ok for Hawaii to call their athletic teams the "Warriors?"

    I'm an all or none type of person. In general people can't spot pick what's ok and what's not. Either it's ok for the Illini, Braves, Redskins, Seminoles, Chiefs, Tarblooders(I always thought this was Native American related) to be named that, or none of them are.
    Honestly, I don't know the history behind their nickname. There is nothing wrong with the "Warrior" name if there is no alluding to all Native Americans being warriors.

    My guess for Hawaii is that is a permitted nickname to actually honor their heritage. But, I have no idea. It seems the Polynesian people rally around it, I haven't heard of any complaints with it. Something to look into!
    sportchampps;1140740 wrote:When I loved in Lawrence Kansas which was home of the second largest Indian college I got to meet many native Americans. The few I got to know or worked with were not offended at all and often joked about the teams. Our one coworker always picked all the indian teams in our office pickem polls each week. The thing people should be worried about is alcohol use amongst native Americans and not some stupid sports team names. If you drove past their college each weekend you would see passed out students in the bleachers from the night before. The drinking led to students dropping out and the school had a 9% graduation rate.
    I totally agree! It is terrible.

    That's part of the reason why there should be some royalties paid by these big-money teams/institutions. Why not try to help them out? Why not quit using their names and likenesses for your own profit and do something with it?
    bigkahuna;1140781 wrote:That's a good point, there's more things to worry about then the names of sports teams.
    See above. There is something than can be done to help.
  • sleeper
    There goes OSH with his "as long as the tribes are profiting from the teams, then racism is okay" shtick. Really?

    So are you for reparations? Should whites give 10% of their salary to African Americans to help them out?
  • sleeper
    At least I give OSH credit for calling these minorities out for what they really want, money for doing nothing. That is the American way and apparently OSH supports wealth redistribution, probably an Obama supporter.
  • sleeper
    isadore;1140350 wrote:under Republican President we have steadily moved away from equal opportunity as social mobility in our society has declined. Hopefully in Obama's second term we will work toward that goal.
    Could you outlay Obama's plan for increasing social mobility? From what I've seen, he wants to achieve this by taking from the haves and giving to the non-productive have nots. That isn't social mobility, that's enforcing equal outcome not equal opportunity; how did that work for Russia, China, Cuba, North Korea?
  • WebFire
    OSH;1140800 wrote:I don't know...is it?

    I guess the Kernels are fierce. So aren't Ceramics. Penguins are too. Boll Weevils are as well.

    Cardinals are fierce too -- I can't tell you how many times the color has scared me. Cornhuskers, Hoosiers, Buckeyes, yada yada yada...
    You are right. I should have said many, not most. And I should have added that most (all?) name their team after something fierce or honorary, or something of prevalence to the area. And none of these reasons are bad.
  • Raw Dawgin' it
    sleeper;1140832 wrote:I'm a broken record
    yep.