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Vegas shooting thead

  • isadore
  • jmog
    queencitybuckeye;1874732 wrote:Agreed, saw some dumbass congressman (please excuse the redundancy) hitting the "silencer" talking point and nothing was going to un-stick him from it even though it would take an AR or AK down from "really fucking loud" to "really loud".
    Studies have shown an AR-15 firing a .223 is about 150-155 dB.
    An AR-15 with a surpressor is about 139 dB.

    So your statement is correct, goes from "louder than a jet air plane taking off" to "same as jet air plane taking off"
  • O-Trap
    isadore;1874692 wrote:Here are a few of several off that thread that were allowed because they represent "acceptable" political opinions . Names not used to protect the guilty.
    “But I don't think new or even the existing gun control laws are going to help. Crazy people are going to do what crazy people do.”
    “There's too many guns for any ban or regulation to be effective at this point. The problem is our country decided decades ago we don't want to pay for mental health anymore. Maybe we'll see the light. It won't just help gun violence, but drug epidemic too.”
    “It's like everything that ends up in some sort of "mass violence" has to be labeled as "terrorism." And, it has to be labeled that immediately.”
    “IMHO this simply a matter of hysterical left-wing whataboutism. Rather than focus on the tragedy at hand. Elements of the left want to play gotcha with those on the right who they perceive as demanding everything involving a Muslim mass shooter be referred to as terrorism vs. the claim that the right appeals to "lone wolves" or "mental health" when the shooter is white. A good example,might have been constant complaints from the right that Obama referred to the fort hood shooting as workplace violence or would say "act of terror" vs. "Radical Islamic Terrorism." Frankly IMHO the whole semantic dispute is pretty much public discourse at its very worst.”
    “BS and I hardly agree on political discussions, but he is right here. Both sides are caught up in labels. My personal opinion is the left is far worse at it, but both sides do it.”
    “To me, "say the white shooter is a terrorist!" crowd is the left-wing version of the "say the minority shooter committed a hate crime!" crowd. People generally just adding white noise to the narrative, although it does get sort of funny when a person who decries one of those incidents of labeling is in favor of the other.”
    All acts of violence denote an element to one degree or another of terrorism. "Terrorism" in the current public discourse involves some sort of political or other ideological motive. Which I think is a fair judgment. The problem is politicians have corrupted an otherwise wise assessment of these acts of violence for their own political gain. Rest assured politicians have been working hard all day how to "handle" the facts as they become available to the public with this current atrocity in a manner favorable to themselves.
    This evening, if these are all still up, I'll go have a look.

    Rest assured, isadore, nobody's trying to censor you.
  • jmog
    fish82;1874739 wrote:Not to mention in full auto, it would melt the suppressor in about 15 seconds.
    Yes, going after supressors is stupid, go after add ons that ramp up the firing rate and capacity to near automatic machine guns, and you will have much more support even from conservatives.
  • fish82
    So Infowars just tweeted a supposed pic of Paddock on the floor with a pretty sizeable leak in the back of his head.
  • HitsRus
    BoatShoes;1874699 wrote:More tldr at least when it comes to the "gun control wouldn't have stopped this guy or violence" type of argument.

    As I read commentary on this Vegas shooting elsewhere, I find it interesting that say, when a crime is committed by a migrant - the same people who say there is nothing more we can do about gun violence, that gun control doesn't work, bad guys will always find a way to either get guns or kill with knives, trucks or pressure cookers, etc., - they use the exact opposite logic in advocating for more restrictive immigration policy.

    If someone says, "yeah well illegal immigrants break laws now why wouldn't they just break those laws too? Won't they just climb the wall?" The response is like "Obviously if it makes it HARDER to illegally migrate or even turns back,one illegal migrant, or reduces illegal immigration at all then that is worth it!"

    It just shows IMHO that we will completely change our logic to defend our different beliefs. If I am strongly against gun control I will find away to argue against gun control and then completely swap my reasoning to argue for more efforts to reduce illegal immigration if I am strongly against illegal immigration.

    Whether the particular policies proposed will work rarely is considered in good faith if they conflict with our moral values.
    Spot on assessment....although I would change "moral values" to "political ideology". This blind adherence to political ideology when it comes to solving this country's problems is what is truly doing us in. Most certainly, it would behoove us to explore if there are any ways to reduce gun violence, as well as ways to come up with immigration policies that are both fair and enforceable. Unfortunately, almost all our political leaders and most of our citizens are more interested in using these issues as political weapons rather than actually solving them.....and moderation in any form is immediately attacked by both sides, and is seen as 'weakness'.
  • O-Trap
    fish82;1874761 wrote:So Infowars [...]
  • fish82
    O-Trap;1874766 wrote:
    The comments are filled with aspiring medical examiners. It's actually pretty funny.
  • QuakerOats
    fish82;1874709 wrote:*a ruddies
    He was in such full speed mode to get to "automatic weapon" that he skipped right past *a ruddies
  • O-Trap
    fish82;1874770 wrote:It's actually pretty funny.
    THAT I believe.
  • Heretic
    O-Trap;1874775 wrote:THAT I believe.
    As can I; there's a part of me interested in what the tinfoil-hat-wearers have concocted as far as explanations for any of this.
  • O-Trap
    Heretic;1874778 wrote:As can I; there's a part of me interested in what the tinfoil-hat-wearers have concocted as far as explanations for any of this.
    Not me. Pretty much anything you could make up for a D-level action movie is probably being postulated. I've had enough of that nonsense.
  • fish82
    Heretic;1874778 wrote:As can I; there's a part of me interested in what the tinfoil-hat-wearers have concocted as far as explanations for any of this.
    No shortage of lunacy from both ends on the Twitter.
  • fish82
    O-Trap;1874780 wrote:Not me. Pretty much anything you could make up for a D-level action movie is probably being postulated. I've had enough of that nonsense.
    IMO there won't be any new info to speak of until his girlfriend gets home and the feds have a sitdown with her.
  • O-Trap
    fish82;1874784 wrote:IMO there won't be any new info to speak of until his girlfriend gets home and the feds have a sitdown with her.
    Frankly, there may not even be any even after his girlfriend gets home and the suits talk to her. To my knowledge, there's nothing to necessarily suggest she knew anything about his plans. I mean, maybe she knew that he was "being erratic" or something, but the difference between knowing someone's personality or recent behavior is a far cry from knowing his ultimate motives or plans.
  • salto
    I'll be darn! The weapons were purchased legally and he was indeed using a bump stock.

    queencitybuckeye;1874409 wrote:Not remotely.
    queencitybuckeye;1874425 wrote:

    What does either have to do with the situation in Las Vegas? Answer: Nothing, you can't win on the facts so you create distractions.
    Go fuck yourself.


    http://www.businessinsider.com/las-vegas-gunman-bump-stock-automatic-weapon-2017-10

    http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/10/03/whats-the-bump-fire-stock-that-the-vegas-killer-may-have-used-to-killed-59-people/
  • Commander of Awesome
    like_that;1874471 wrote:Going full Japan and Australia is never going to happen in this country. It is a pipe dream for gun control activists.

    As for your bolded, I am curious how you came to this conclusion? Gun crime statistically has decreased. Are you speaking more in the sense that people don't even react to gun crime?
    [LEFT]Gun Violence in on the rise since 2014. I would argue that even if they were on the decline as you state its still way too high. I'll let you do the research for yourself, but essentially the more guns there are the more homicides.

    https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/

    In general, in the US it's easier to buy a gun than vote, and the GOP see gun ownership as a right and health care as a privileged.
    [/LEFT]
  • queencitybuckeye
    Commander of Awesome;1874796 wrote:[LEFT]and the GOP see gun ownership as a right and health care as a privileged.
    [/LEFT]
    Not the GOP, the Constitution of the United States of America.
  • fish82
    O-Trap;1874792 wrote:Frankly, there may not even be any even after his girlfriend gets home and the suits talk to her. To my knowledge, there's nothing to necessarily suggest she knew anything about his plans. I mean, maybe she knew that he was "being erratic" or something, but the difference between knowing someone's personality or recent behavior is a far cry from knowing his ultimate motives or plans.
    That's certainly possible. That said, she lived with him since the beginning of the year, so I'm interested in what she has to say.
  • Commander of Awesome
    like_that;1874702 wrote:Yes, there are hypocrites on both sides. It's no different than the people who cry about cops, yet they want to ban all weapons to the point where cops are the only ones who can have them. Congrats for providing that ground breaking revelation.

    And since you brought up immigration to poke flaws into logic... There are people that actually think it is impossible to round up and deport 10M-15M illegal immigrants, but somehow think it is possible to confiscate over 300M guns in the US. Just so we don't go down the immigration rabbit hole, I don't think either can be achieved.

    I will say it again, decriminalize drugs and we will see a drastic drop in gun crime.
    That's a common belief but not a cure all. It wouldn't stop the mass shootings for example. [LEFT]Opiods are already killing thousands each year without them being criminalized, not a gun violence metric, but something to bring up as opposition to decriminalizing all drugs. Maybe we're ok with that, probably a different thread. [/LEFT]
  • iclfan2
    Commander of Awesome;1874796 wrote:[LEFT]Gun Violence in on the rise since 2014. I would argue that even if they were on the decline as you state its still way too high. I'll let you do the research for yourself, but essentially the more guns there are the more homicides.

    https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/

    In general, in the US it's easier to buy a gun than vote, and the GOP see gun ownership as a right and health care as a privileged.
    [/LEFT]
    Per the 2014 FBI stats, more gun ownership shows no correlation to firearm murders. Please take accidental deaths and suicides out of your studies. Also, how do you plan to take all of the guns and/ or stop the inner cities from killing each other?
  • like_that
    Commander of Awesome;1874796 wrote:[LEFT]Gun Violence in on the rise since 2014. I would argue that even if they were on the decline as you state its still way too high. I'll let you do the research for yourself, but essentially the more guns there are the more homicides.

    https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/

    In general, in the US it's easier to buy a gun than vote, and the GOP see gun ownership as a right and health care as a privileged.
    [/LEFT]




    Just wanted to add this in addition to the chart above. Gun crime has taken a dive the last twenty years and sales have gone up. As I said earlier, obama was the best salesman and nra recruiter the last 8 years and him crime deceased.
  • justincredible
    Commander of Awesome;1874796 wrote:In general, in the US it's easier to buy a gun than vote, and the GOP see gun ownership as a right and health care as a privileged.
    [video=youtube;gXOEkj6Jz44][/video]
  • isadore
    Suicide accounts for more than two-thirds of the 32,000 firearms deaths the United States averages every year. Or, to come at the issue a different way: Suicide is the second-leading cause of death for Americans aged 15 to 34, and more than 50 percent of cases involve guns. A big reason for the prevalence of firearms in suicides is the deadliness of guns themselves: When a firearm is used in a suicide attempt, there’s an 85 percent chance of it being successful.
    Firearm violence is firearm violence, whether it’s committed against oneself or committed against others.
    https://www.thetrace.org/2015/11/gun-suicides-mental-illness-statistics/
    More Americans are killing themselves with guns, with the absolute number of gun suicides rising by 4,735 from 1999 to 2014.
    https://www.thetrace.org/2016/04/cdc-study-gun-suicides-getting-worse/
  • like_that
    Commander of Awesome;1874801 wrote:That's a common belief but not a cure all. It wouldn't stop the mass shootings for example. [LEFT]Opiods are already killing thousands each year without them being criminalized, not a gun violence metric, but something to bring up as opposition to decriminalizing all drugs. Maybe we're ok with that, probably a different thread. [/LEFT]
    Never said it was a full cure, but it’s a better start than any legislation that has been proposed against guns. The majority of gun crime is committed in low income urban areas. Gang activity is related to this crime.

    I would also like to add 80% of gun crime is committed by hand guns (this includes the majority of “mass shootings”). Most proposed legislation I see is against “assault” (that term is also used loosely) weapons. What’s the next step when that 20% of the crime shifts to hand guns?