Disgusted with Progressives

• CenterBHSFan

  

  The statues:
  
  I don't think that these statues in various areas should be removed. I don't. A lot of people don't respect these people portrayed, a lot do. Regardless, it's a part of our history. We cannot erase parts of our history, they will always be there. I see it as something to remind all of us of what we removed ourselves from and what we never want to return to. If we are going to regard our history, we have to include all of it not just the pretty parts - speaking particularly in this context of visual reminders.
• Fab4Runner

  

  CenterBHSFan;1866930 wrote:The statues:
  
  I don't think that these statues in various areas should be removed. I don't. A lot of people don't respect these people portrayed, a lot do. Regardless, it's a part of our history. We cannot erase parts of our history, they will always be there. I see it as something to remind all of us of what we removed ourselves from and what we never want to return to. If we are going to regard our history, we have to include all of it not just the pretty parts - speaking particularly in this context of visual reminders.

  Then take them down and put them in a museum. They do not have to be destroyed.
• ptown_trojans_1

  

  CenterBHSFan;1866930 wrote:The statues:
  
  I don't think that these statues in various areas should be removed. I don't. A lot of people don't respect these people portrayed, a lot do. Regardless, it's a part of our history. We cannot erase parts of our history, they will always be there. I see it as something to remind all of us of what we removed ourselves from and what we never want to return to. If we are going to regard our history, we have to include all of it not just the pretty parts - speaking particularly in this context of visual reminders.

  I get that and that's fine if they were accurate representations of what happened. However, most of the statues were created during the 20th century as a reminder of Jim Crow and segregation. They were the glorification of the civil war, or the war of northern aggression as they call it. The statues warp the true sense of history and appear that nothing was wrong with them leaving the union and rebelling against the country. They glorify racism, rebellion, and slavery.
  
  The Confederacy were traitors that do not deserve to be honored. They forfeited that when they rebelled against their country. As such, any statues that glorifies that rebellion in a public square is an front to those who fount to preserve the union and to fight against slavery and Jim Crow.
  
  It is not erasing history, but setting it back in its proper context. The history will be not erased as we still have all the civil war battlefields, cemeteries, and history books. Move the statues to those battlefields, cemeteries, or private lands.
  
  I work in Virginia and drive on Lee Highway and Jefferson Davis Highway. Why the hell are we honoring guys that rebelled against the Union? It is so dumb.
• Automatik

  

  In the words of The Donald....THEY LOST. Fuck the statues and any douchebag that shows up to defend them. Go to work you fuckheads.
• QuakerOats

  CenterBHSFan;1866930 wrote:The statues:
  
  I don't think that these statues in various areas should be removed. I don't. A lot of people don't respect these people portrayed, a lot do. Regardless, it's a part of our history. We cannot erase parts of our history, they will always be there. I see it as something to remind all of us of what we removed ourselves from and what we never want to return to. If we are going to regard our history, we have to include all of it not just the pretty parts - speaking particularly in this context of visual reminders.

  
  Thank you.
• majorspark

  

  Imagine if Trump turned away a ship full of muslim refugees and nearly a third ended up dead at the hands of the government they were fleeing. Or to inter American citizens against their will because they were of Middle eastern decent. Well there is an American president who did just that just with people of a different religion and origin. There is also a statue memorializing him in DC. I wonder when these leftist who supposedly abhore this sort of thing will demand his statue be removed.
• QuakerOats

  CBS devoted their entire newscast to Trump's presser and every way they could try to tie him to racism.
• ptown_trojans_1

  

  majorspark;1866937 wrote:Imagine if Trump turned away a ship full of muslim refugees and nearly a third ended up dead at the hands of the government they were fleeing. Or to inter American citizens against their will because they were of Middle eastern decent. Well there is an American president who did just that just with people of a different religion and origin. There is also a statue memorializing him in DC. I wonder when these leftist who supposedly abhore this sort of thing will demand his statue be removed.

  I stated earlier or in another thread, those statues are fine, as long as we add a proper context to them. For example, Woodrow Wilson was a great President, but a huge racist.
  I would not be in favor of taking those down.
  
  But, for the Confederate statues: Those guys fought against the United States and should not be glorified or honored.
• Belly35

  

  ptown_trojans_1;1866932 wrote:I get that and that's fine if they were accurate representations of what happened. However, most of the statues were created during the 20th century as a reminder of Jim Crow and segregation. They were the glorification of the civil war, or the war of northern aggression as they call it. The statues warp the true sense of history and appear that nothing was wrong with them leaving the union and rebelling against the country. They glorify racism, rebellion, and slavery.
  
  The Confederacy were traitors that do not deserve to be honored. They forfeited that when they rebelled against their country. As such, any statues that glorifies that rebellion in a public square is an front to those who fount to preserve the union and to fight against slavery and Jim Crow.
  
  It is not erasing history, but setting it back in its proper context. The history will be not erased as we still have all the civil war battlefields, cemeteries, and history books. Move the statues to those battlefields, cemeteries, or private lands.
  
  I work in Virginia and drive on Lee Highway and Jefferson Davis Highway. Why the hell are we honoring guys that rebelled against the Union? It is so dumb.

  Maybe was should remove and disband the Democratic Party for a accurate representations of their history of racism.
• ptown_trojans_1

  

  Belly35;1866941 wrote:Maybe was should remove and disband the Democratic Party for a accurate representations of their history of racism.

  That makes no sense....
• QuakerOats

  More than 50 buildings along with the Robert C. Byrd Highway are named after former Senator Robert Byrd from West Virginia, a former KKK member. I assume every one of those buildings and highways are now undergoing the process of taking his name off those buildings and highways. Or, will this not occur because he was a democrat?
• ptown_trojans_1

  

  QuakerOats;1866946 wrote:More than 50 buildings along with the Robert C. Byrd Highway are named after former Senator Robert Byrd from West Virginia, a former KKK member. I assume every one of those buildings and highways are now undergoing the process of taking his name off those buildings and highways. Or, will this not occur because he was a democrat?

  I didn't know Byrd fought in the civil war against the Union?
  
  Let me rephrase. I'll support taking down Confederate statues. That is it. All others could stay up and if we want to add context to them, that is fine. If the people of WV want to add more context to the Byrd items, more power to them.
• iclfan2

  

  ptown_trojans_1;1866940 wrote:I stated earlier or in another thread, those statues are fine, as long as we add a proper context to them. For example, Woodrow Wilson was a great President, but a huge racist.
  I would not be in favor of taking those down.

  My hesitation is that it starts with the confederates, and then BLM and whoever else wants more. There is already a group of people here who want John Calhoun's statue taken down. He was a VP, among other highly held positions in the government, but supported slavery (lived prior to civil war). It's kind of the "If you give a mouse a cookie" slippery slope. Some people will never be satisfied.
  
  I was originally for the confederate memorials, because people down here still had people die and sacrifice for the war, but I've come around to putting them either onto private property or somewhere else. I do not support crazy liberal children pulling statues down though.
• QuakerOats

  All of the buildings and highways with his name (Robert Byrd) plastered on them were paid for by U.S. taxpayers. The thought that taxpayer money supports a former Klansman's memory should be deplorable and I imagine the protests will start as early as today in WVA.
• Heretic

  

  Automatik;1866912 wrote:Don't want to threadjack further, but Jason Whitlock's spot a few weeks ago Cowherd was dead on regarding why he doesn't have a job. Team's don't feel he's fully invested in being a football player. Not a good look when you play the most important position on the field. Combined w/ the unwanted attention he'll bring and regarding play he's meh...it's not surprising. I still think he'll get picked up though....lots of garbage at the QB position these days.

  Yeah, Kap is basically a left-wing Tebow -- a guy of marginal talent who can't get a job over other guys of marginal talent because they're fully focused on football and nothing but football, while Tebow/Kap are invested in other things and creating a personal brand, leading to getting a ton of attention out of proportion to their role on the team as a back-up QB. It's really not that hard to figure out if you're capable of conscious thought.
  

  ptown_trojans_1;1866932 wrote:I get that and that's fine if they were accurate representations of what happened. However, most of the statues were created during the 20th century as a reminder of Jim Crow and segregation. They were the glorification of the civil war, or the war of northern aggression as they call it. The statues warp the true sense of history and appear that nothing was wrong with them leaving the union and rebelling against the country. They glorify racism, rebellion, and slavery.
  
  The Confederacy were traitors that do not deserve to be honored. They forfeited that when they rebelled against their country. As such, any statues that glorifies that rebellion in a public square is an front to those who fount to preserve the union and to fight against slavery and Jim Crow.
  
  It is not erasing history, but setting it back in its proper context. The history will be not erased as we still have all the civil war battlefields, cemeteries, and history books. Move the statues to those battlefields, cemeteries, or private lands.
  
  I work in Virginia and drive on Lee Highway and Jefferson Davis Highway. Why the hell are we honoring guys that rebelled against the Union? It is so dumb.

  Or when you consider they're traitors who, often, fought with valor, just do for them what was done for Benedict Arnold. http://www.neatorama.com/2014/01/01/Americas-Monument-to-Its-Most-Infamous-Traitor-Benedict-Arnold/ Where you create a statue of his boot and refer to him without actually mentioning his name. You know, put them slightly above "American convert to Taliban" on the traitor scale, but definitely many steps below "actual American hero".
  

  ptown_trojans_1;1866942 wrote:That makes no sense....

  Considering the poster, are you surprised?
• majorspark

  

  ptown_trojans_1;1866932 wrote:I work in Virginia and drive on Lee Highway and Jefferson Davis Highway. Why the hell are we honoring guys that rebelled against the Union? It is so dumb.

  ptown_trojans_1;1866932 wrote:But, for the Confederate statues: Those guys fought against the United States and should not be glorified or honored.

  Because we still saw them as brothers who went astray. Fellow countrymen gone astray that had to be brought back by force. Unlike most other civil wars in this world the rebel leaders were not executed or harshly treated when defeated. General Lee and many other confederate officers fought for the for the United States in the war in Mexico with honor.
  
  The initial rebellion was in the deep south. Lincoln's calling on other states to raise arms against the deep south prompted other states to secede. There were constitutional concerns. A lot of loyal Union men wrestled with their decision. Imagine if the California secession movement were successful and Trump ordered arms to be taken up against them. I am a patriotic American who would fight and die for my country. But I would have a very hard time turning my gun on my fellow citizens. Many pro unionist found they could not do it. I do like your idea of adding context to some of the monuments.
  
  It little historical context from the government of Virginia who ended up taking the brunt of the war.
  http://www.nytimes.com/1861/04/22/news/gov-letcher-s-proclamation-his-reply-secretary-cameron-state-affairs-norfolk.html
• ppaw1999

  http://variety.com/2017/legit/news/michael-moore-cnn-interview-trump-racist-1202529456/
  
  I don't know if anybody else saw this but things are getting way out of control. This country is getting more divisive every day.
• Automatik

  

  lol...Michael Moore. I won't bother clicking a link involving that fat turd.
• Heretic

  

  Automatik;1866976 wrote:lol...Michael Moore. I won't bother clicking a link involving that fat turd.

  Yeah, listening to him is like listening to a douche like Hannity. You're leaving reality and entering the mind of a moron whose only true skill is creating his own brand out of political opinions.
• ppaw1999

  lBut the link says legit in it. OTrap would approve
• FatHobbit

  

  ptown_trojans_1;1866932 wrote: The Confederacy were traitors that do not deserve to be honored. They forfeited that when they rebelled against their country. As such, any statues that glorifies that rebellion in a public square is an front to those who fount to preserve the union and to fight against slavery and Jim Crow.

  
  
  How do you feel about the founding fathers of this country? Were they traitors to England? I think a lot of people like to focus on slavery and ignore the argument for state rights. Mainly because history is written by the victors.
  

  ptown_trojans_1;1866932 wrote: It is not erasing history, but setting it back in its proper context. The history will be not erased as we still have all the civil war battlefields, cemeteries, and history books. Move the statues to those battlefields, cemeteries, or private lands.

  To me destroying these statues is the same as the Taliban destroying historical Buddhist statues. It's not a good idea. I love your idea of moving them to battlefields and civil war cemeteries. Can we keep the history without glorifying slavery? I think it's important to do so.
  
  Also arguing against the destruction of these statues and defending the kkk/Nazis leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
• isadore

  QuakerOats;1866946 wrote:More than 50 buildings along with the Robert C. Byrd Highway are named after former Senator Robert Byrd from West Virginia, a former KKK member. I assume every one of those buildings and highways are now undergoing the process of taking his name off those buildings and highways. Or, will this not occur because he was a democrat?

  at least Robert Byrd, apologized for joining the Klan, denounced it and during his later years in the Senate got 100% rating with the NAACP. Jefferson Davis went to his grave supporting the "Lost Cause" of the war fought to protect and extend slavery.
• isadore

  majorspark;1866964 wrote:Because we still saw them as brothers who went astray. Fellow countrymen gone astray that had to be brought back by force. Unlike most other civil wars in this world the rebel leaders were not executed or harshly treated when defeated. General Lee and many other confederate officers fought for the for the United States in the war in Mexico with honor.
  
  The initial rebellion was in the deep south. Lincoln's calling on other states to raise arms against the deep south prompted other states to secede. There were constitutional concerns. A lot of loyal Union men wrestled with their decision. Imagine if the California secession movement were successful and Trump ordered arms to be taken up against them. I am a patriotic American who would fight and die for my country. But I would have a very hard time turning my gun on my fellow citizens. Many pro unionist found they could not do it. I do like your idea of adding context to some of the monuments.
  
  It little historical context from the government of Virginia who ended up taking the brunt of the war.
  http://www.nytimes.com/1861/04/22/news/gov-letcher-s-proclamation-his-reply-secretary-cameron-state-affairs-norfolk.html

  "Constitutional concerns" seven states lead by traitors left the union to protect and expand slavery. The states that joined them were their slave owning accomplices.
• isadore

  CenterBHSFan;1866930 wrote:The statues:
  
  I don't think that these statues in various areas should be removed. I don't. A lot of people don't respect these people portrayed, a lot do. Regardless, it's a part of our history. We cannot erase parts of our history, they will always be there. I see it as something to remind all of us of what we removed ourselves from and what we never want to return to. If we are going to regard our history, we have to include all of it not just the pretty parts - speaking particularly in this context of visual reminders.

  Gosh a ruddies that's right, lets keep up those statutes that depict nobly men who fought to keep African Americans in chattel slavery. A system under they were beaten, tortured, the women raped and the families broken up on a whim.
• QuakerOats

  isadore;1866982 wrote:at least Robert Byrd, apologized for joining the Klan, denounced it and during his later years in the Senate got 100% rating with the NAACP. Jefferson Davis went to his grave supporting the "Lost Cause" of the war fought to protect and extend slavery.

  
  So when a democrat klansman denounces the KKK for personal political gain, it's ok.
  
  When Trump denounces the Klan, it's not ok.