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Republican debates/primaries.

  • HitsRus
    ^^^^ Well, I was hoping for something different.
  • FatHobbit
    Spock;1787781 wrote:any different than what we have now?
    We have a crybaby in the Whitehouse now. I think a reality show would be worse
  • HitsRus
    http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/19/politics/donald-trump-arizona-joe-arpaio/

    I think it's time to reconsider what we dismissed as conspiracy so long ago.

    Donald Trump is a Clinton plant....a Trojan horse to destroy the Republican party from the inside...and to accomplish what no democrat or Supreme Court decision could ever hope to. Even if he is not, he might as well have been.

    Consider:

    He has split the party...and even if they "coalesce" around him he cannot/will not win the election. Not a single poll shows him beating Hillary or Bernie. He makes them the lesser of evils...a feat pretty hard to do.

    consider:

    -Donald has given the Clintons money before...lots of money...and he does like "the deal" above all else. I suggest that one may have been done here.

    -He has split the party as no one else could do. He has marginalized and rendered ineffective the GOP leadership...even bringing the rank and file to dislike and distrust them and even more.

    -He has sullied the only major news source sympathetic to the conservative viewpoint...and he continues to do so.

    -He has tied the Republican party to racism, misogyny and violence and reinforced the democratic assertion that the Republicans really are those things.

    - He has energized a largely lethargic Democratic base hungover from 8 years of a toxic BHO administration...who had an approval rating in the 30% range at the start of the campaign....to approaching 50% now.

    -He has knocked out every appealing candidate that the Republicans could have ran against Hillary.

    And he is not done yet.

    Even if and when the rank and file realize that the warm feeling they are getting from Trump is blood dripping from the styletto in their back, it'll be too late. The GOP leadership has been emasculated and the brokered convention will do even more damage.

    Back in the 2nd(?) debate, Marco Rubio schooled Trump on the nuclear triad, a basic thing that anybody running for prsedent should be more than familiar with....6 or 8 debates later, Trump still had no clue about foreign policy. He had plenty of time to bone up on his stuff. but didn't. Why?...because it doesn't matter to him.
  • gut
    HitsRus;1787980 wrote:He had plenty of time to bone up on his stuff. but didn't. Why?...because it doesn't matter to him.
    That's a really interesting point. The rest can just as easily be dismissed as Trump being Trump.

    But I'm no longer convinced he can't win the general. He defies all the conventional wisdom about winning campaigns. His numbers weren't great starting out, or against other Repubs head-to-head, but he seems to keep increasing support.

    Plus, Trump being Trump he'll not lose momentum when he does the classic pivot to the middle in the general...which could quickly and easily erase any gap he has against Clinton currently.
  • HitsRus
    The Clintons are political animals… And vicious ones at that. I don't put anything past them. I don't put anything past Trump. They've been friends a long time… Follow the money. When he secures the nomination, the ridiculousness continues until 50% of this country cannot vote for him out of good conscience or won't vote for anybody at all... Hillary wins.
  • SportsAndLady
    Take the tin foil hat off Hits
  • HitsRus
    ^^^Yeah...LOL....

    But what makes it funny is that his effect has been such even though unintentional. Just putting it out there for discussion, that if he were a Trojan horse, wouldn't it look like this?

    when he does the classic pivot to the middle in the general...which could quickly and easily erase any gap he has against Clinton currently.
    I don't know...real damage has been done and some wounds are deep, I think what worries me is that he has energized the democratic base.
  • gut
    HitsRus;1788084 wrote:I think what worries me is that he has energized the democratic base.
    I hadn't even thought about it until someone mentioned it...but he energizes the Democratic base and Republicans stay home, then Republicans are going to get creamed in the House and Senate.

    Because the only thing worse than Hillary as POTUS is Hillary with a supermajority in Congress.
  • isadore
    gosh a ruddies energized. really. Participation in Republican Party primaries is at record levels while Democratic participation in the primary drop off precipitously, even with Berne's burn and feminist for Hillary.
  • Al Bundy
    isadore;1788306 wrote:gosh a ruddies energized. really. Participation in Republican Party primaries is at record levels while Democratic participation in the primary drop off precipitously, even with Berne's burn and feminist for Hillary.
    Gosh a ruddies. Those numbers are misleading because many Democrats have chosen to vote in Republican primaries, but they have no intention of voting Republican in November.
  • isadore
    gosh a ruddies The new voters coming out for Trump are all part of a giant Democratic conspiracy. you must be off your medication again.
  • HitsRus
    energizing the base has nothing to do with conspiracy but is about getting people to vote for whatever reason. In Ohio, it was pretty clear that Kasich got a lot of support from Democrats and Independents crossing over who voted "defensively". Trump's rhetoric obviously has stirred people in both directions.
  • QuakerOats
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/03/21/donald-trump-reveals-foreign-policy-team-in-meeting-with-the-washington-post/
  • gut
    HitsRus;1788319 wrote: In Ohio, it was pretty clear that Kasich got a lot of support from Democrats and Independents crossing over who voted "defensively". Trump's rhetoric obviously has stirred people in both directions.
    I don't know if that all follows. People could have crossed over, at least in Ohio, because they prefer Kasich to Clinton. I doubt they are trying to block Trump because they're afraid he'll beat Hillary.
  • HitsRus
    http://wcbe.org/post/dems-think-crossover-voters-helped-kasich-win-gop-primary#stream/0

    http://www.10tv.com/content/stories/2016/03/15/columbus-ohio-defensive-voting-voters-strategy-behind-switching-parties-for-primary.html

    I heard a report that as many as 57% of the crossover votes for Kasich were "defensive".
  • ts1227
    I don't have faith in the electorate being smart enough to cast a defensive vote, or to understand such a concept.
  • gut
    Doesn't appear to be much actual science behind those numbers. I wonder if some of this isn't nervous Democrats trying to hide and explain away the fact that a big chunk of their base doesn't want Hillary. The two most polarizing candidates in recent memory as BOTH our choices - history has shown most who despise a candidate don't crossover or vote the lesser of two evils, they stay home. But maybe there will be some sort of perverse effect because both ARE so polarizing.

    I'm with ts1227 on this...people aren't going to come up with this idea on their own in droves without any indications of significant organization to do so.


    Ahhh, here we go....some numbers with some meat to them:
    http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/gop-primaries/273151-democrats-independents-flood-into-ohio-republican-primary

    7% of primary voters - half of Kasich's winning margin - were crossovers, up from 4% in 2008. Independents up 11 points to 28% from 17% - now I think we are getting somewhere. Where will those independents go in the general, if anywhere? I don't know, but pretty reasonable they simply voted for their former governor as the only decent choice out of the 5 remaining candidates.
  • HitsRus
    The concept is not that complicated...
  • gut
    HitsRus;1788397 wrote:The concept is not that complicated...
  • majorspark
    gut;1788398 wrote:
    Anecdotal but to your point a friend of mine was a poll worker in the Ohio primary. If I understood him correctly he was asked by several voters wanting a republican ballot to assure them they could vote democrat in the general. Just saying there are a number of people who simply do not understand the electoral process.
  • Belly35
    Last week at the voting polls where I voted and where I work a few individual (4) I know change their party to Republican. Asking why. To put it simple... They said that the candidates offered by the Demorcat Party they don't want to be associated with, they see themselves more in favor of the Republican candidates. Which one I didnt ask.
    I think the Hillary or Bernie candidates have turned educated Democrat off and the past 8 years of Democrat agenda have presented knowledgeable voters to vote for anything to turn or change the course of this county .... if that means Democrat to vote Republican they will...
  • isadore
    Gosh a ruddies This morning Isis is doing its best to help Trump win the Arizona primary.
  • isadore
    Gosh a ruddies, I feel safer already. I just listened Donald Trump our future President, talk about how Belgium was a beautiful city 20 years ago.
  • SportsAndLady
    Not to sound insensitive but Belgium let's in all these Syrian refugees, what the hell did you expect to happen? This was unfortunately inevitable.
  • QuakerOats
    http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-03-22/trump-s-republican-turnout-boost-extends-to-battleground-states