Hillary Clinton
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like_that
Trump has defied all logic, so I wouldn't put it against him. I also think you are underestimating the hatred the majority of republicans have for Hillary. It's hard to speculate on all of this until we move into the general election cycle, but Hillary will be in the spotlight (something she really has tried to avoid) and I think it will only heighten the anger of the voting base. I think it's too early to make confident predictions on who will win at this point.ZWICK 4 PREZ;1784200 wrote:And you may want to open your eyes. Trump will drive Dems who don't even like Hillary to vote for her just so they don't have a Trump presidency. Repubs are turning out in record numbers because that's what happens in elections when a 2 term president opposite of yours is leaving office. Repubs aren't overwhelmingly supporting Trump. Repubs aren't anywhere close to being behind Trump. He's winning because the party is too stupid to trim the field down. There's no way Donald Trump is ever the POTUS. -
BoatShoes
I don't disagree. I was just giving an example of an argument that I would personally find more worthwhile than calling Bernie a socialist when the term itself is meaningless IMHO when you have actual socialists who sit there and laugh at Bernie calling him a Bourgeosie Capitalist. Shit is a waste of time.gut;1784168 wrote:Health Insurance providers have very little to do with the rising cost of healthcare. They have actually kept costs down trying to eke out a profit. Demagogues like to talk about the billions Insurance providers make, but the reality is they make very slim profit margins.
Healthcare costs are driven by pharma and medical devices.
But to your point I really think the path to cost control is going to have to come through FDA deregulation and patent reform. I am sorry but IMHO Eli Lilly should not get a whole new level of IP protection for 5mg "daily use" Cialis vs. the old 20mg pill which now faces generic competition and then go rig deals with doctors to prescribe the expensive version. Abbvie shouldn't get new IP protection for "low volume" AndroGel 6.12% because Androgel 10% now faces generic competition, etc. - especially considering that the "disease state" that androgel probably doesn't even really exist.
America bears the brunt of pharma R&D but these companies should be plowing back into new products and not playing games to extend the rents from previous R&D...and part of that could probably be fixed with drug dereg IMHO.
Bodybuilders have done all of the research that AbbVie replecated to bring Androgel to market on the black market for decades w/o inventing a "disease state" necessary to satisfy the FDA.
Then you throw in the personal injury lawsuits, the FTC suits, etc. and it's a mess and a complete waste of production.
But to get back on topic - Bernie is toast but dems ought to be happy that Bernie at least got Hillary talking about some of the things they really want. -
ptown_trojans_1
Warhawk=liberal interventionist. She was in support of going into Libya as well as she wanted to go into Syria in 2012. (She looks right after the fact now). Her SECSTATE tenure was ok, not great, but she wasn't awful.like_that;1784201 wrote:I can actually see her being a warhawk to prove she is tough since she is a woman, but that's just pure speculation on my part.
What if during the general Donald provided his advisors and you like those people? Would you second guess your vote for Hillary? Hillary may have 20 years of experience, but that's just a quantity. I don't think any reasonable person can say she has had a successful 20 years. She was mediocre at best as Secretary of State.
Trump said he would release a list of foreign policy advisers last week. Still waiting on them....Ooops....
Perhaps I may like them, I don't know. That's the thing. I have no clue, other than "Trust me." -
ZWICK 4 PREZ
If there's one thing we know about America is we love the status quo. Sure we like candidates who say they're different yet we all know they're Washington's finest insiders. It makes us feel safe. We can't go wrong with someone who knows Washington and has been in Washington. That's why Hillary wins against Trump. If it were Rubio or Kasich.. sure..I can see them beating her. because it's the same thing.. They're politicians.. they're Washington guys.. what's the worst that could happen? But too many people would be afraid to give Trump the keys to the bus and say hey drive us off the cliff. It's one thing to catch attention in a primary, and a completely different thing to keep it going in a general election.like_that;1784202 wrote:Trump has defied all logic, so I wouldn't put it against him. I also think you are underestimating the hatred the majority of republicans have for Hillary. It's hard to speculate on all of this until we move into the general election cycle, but Hillary will be in the spotlight (something she really has tried to avoid) and I think it will only heighten the anger of the voting base. I think it's too early to make confident predictions on who will win at this point. -
BoatShoes
Totally agree. Crazy. Honestly if the path to victory for the GOP was to make a dent in one of the minority voting blocks and somehow pick up more white men than Romney got this has got to be it. the GOP thought the minority block would be hispanics but Trump could actually pick up some of the black vote IMHO and do even better with white men.gut;1784170 wrote:I'm not so sure....Trump starts talking single payer and protectionism he will pick up more Dem votes than you realize. -
BoatShoes
You don't think Hillary was a disaster of epic proportions?? ​COMMIE PINKO!ptown_trojans_1;1784204 wrote:Her SECSTATE tenure was ok, not great, but she wasn't awful. -
ZWICK 4 PREZ
How in the world do you see Trump picking up the black vote lol? Have you not watched his campaign at all?BoatShoes;1784206 wrote:Totally agree. Crazy. Honestly if the path to victory for the GOP was to make a dent in one of the minority voting blocks and somehow pick up more white men than Romney got this has got to be it. the GOP thought the minority block would be hispanics but Trump could actually pick up some of the black vote IMHO and do even better with white men. -
ZWICK 4 PREZ
Also... the "well we hate Hillary so we wouldn't let her win!" mantra is retarded... you guys hated Obama and he won a second term.. and that was with a Washington moderate candidate, not Trump.
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BoatShoes
This could happen too. Take a look at a state like Oklahoma which was a "closed primary" meaning (if it is like Ohio anyway) you have to already be listed as a Republican due to having voted in a previous Republican primary election in order to vote in a republican presidential primary - Ted Cruz won there.ZWICK 4 PREZ;1784178 wrote:Yeah and he'll leave even more Republicans at home after that.
So maybe enough "True Conservatives" sit it out even while independents and some dems flock to Trump??? -
like_that
I actually think the hate for Hillary is much more than for Obama. Also I don't think the black vote turnout will be the same as the last two general elections.ZWICK 4 PREZ;1784209 wrote:Also... the "well we hate Hillary so we wouldn't let her win!" mantra is retarded... you guys hated Obama and he won a second term.. and that was with a Washington moderate candidate, not Trump. -
like_that
Nothing will shock me at this point. Hillary wins in a blow out, hillary wins in a close one, trump wins in a blow out, trump wins a close one. Wouldn't be surprised with any outcome.BoatShoes;1784210 wrote:This could happen too. Take a look at a state like Oklahoma which was a "closed primary" meaning (if it is like Ohio anyway) you have to already be listed as a Republican due to having voted in a previous Republican primary election in order to vote in a republican presidential primary - Ted Cruz won there.
So maybe enough "True Conservatives" sit it out even while independents and some dems flock to Trump??? -
ZWICK 4 PREZ
It definitely wont.. which is why you could win with a Rubio or Kasich.. but not a Trump.like_that;1784212 wrote:I actually think the hate for Hillary is much more than for Obama. Also I don't think the black vote turnout will be the same as the last two general elections. -
BoatShoes
I don't think he picks up a lot of the black vote but I am pretty sure polling thus far shows him doing better with blacks than any conventional republican for years and years and years.ZWICK 4 PREZ;1784208 wrote:How in the world do you see Trump picking up the black vote lol? Have you not watched his campaign at all? -
like_that
Lol ok, you also have been predicting Bernie was going to take the primary since last summer, so I will take your absolute predictions with a grain of salt. Too early to make those type of predictions, especially when each candidate isn't focusing on each other.ZWICK 4 PREZ;1784214 wrote:It definitely wont.. which is why you could win with a Rubio or Kasich.. but not a Trump. -
ZWICK 4 PREZ
Put it this way.. If Rubio or Kasich is the candidate, I'm voting for Jill Stein. If Trump or Cruz is the candidate, I'm making sure those two fuckheads aren't ever POTUS. And there's a lot of Bernie supporters who don't care for Clintons like me that feel the same way.
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ZWICK 4 PREZ
You're full of shit. I've always admitted Hillary would win but I was never going to support her. Do I have to pull the posts up for you? I'm pretty sure you already know otherwise.like_that;1784217 wrote:Lol ok, you also have been predicting Bernie was going to take the primary since last summer, so I will take your absolute predictions with a grain of salt. Too early to make those type of predictions, especially when each candidate isn't focusing on each other. -
like_that
Is this the same type of comment you made about all corporations? You have a few friends who feel this way and somehow you apply it to ever Bernie supporter. I know quite a few Bernie supporters myself and they despise Hillary. They won't vote if it comes down to Hillary and trump. I also know people who will vote for anyone that is running against Hillary.ZWICK 4 PREZ;1784219 wrote:And there's a lot of Bernie supporters who don't care for Clintons like me that feel the same way.
See how that works? -
BoatShoes
Same. Could plausibly end up with Hillary indicted and getting replaced at the Dem convention while Trump is ousted at the GOP convention and end up with Biden v. Romney or something cray.like_that;1784213 wrote:Nothing will shock me at this point. Hillary wins in a blow out, hillary wins in a close one, trump wins in a blow out, trump wins a close one. Wouldn't be surprised with any outcome. -
like_that
Lol I specifically remember a post talking about how Bernie's movement is already making the move blah blah. Not digging it up because I'm posting from my phone.ZWICK 4 PREZ;1784220 wrote:You're full of shit. I've always admitted Hillary would win but I was never going to support her. Do I have to pull the posts up for you? I'm pretty sure you already know otherwise.
The only bullshit here are your way too early absolute predictions. LOL at getting butthurt once again because somebody provides opposition to your posts. -
ZWICK 4 PREZ
I personally couldn't imagine any Bernie supporters being in the same room with you or more than 10 min so I doubt you know their preferencelike_that;1784221 wrote:Is this the same type of comment you made about all corporations? You have a few friends who feel this way and somehow you apply it to ever Bernie supporter. I know quite a few Bernie supporters myself and they despise Hillary. They won't vote if it comes down to Hillary and trump. I also know people who will vote for anyone that is running against Hillary.
See how that works?
im joking before you go crazy lol -
ZWICK 4 PREZ
and do you remember you (yes you personally) asking if I think that means he'll win and me saying no, probably not, but its nice seeing him gain ground on her lol?like_that;1784223 wrote:Lol I specifically remember a post talking about how Bernie's movement is already making the move blah blah. Not digging it up because I'm posting from my phone.
The only bullshit here are your way too early absolute predictions. LOL at getting butthurt once again because somebody provides opposition to your posts. -
like_that
Lol, I live in DC. My views are in the minority. I am highly outnumbered by my friends.ZWICK 4 PREZ;1784224 wrote:I personally couldn't imagine any Bernie supporters being in the same room with you or more than 10 min so I doubt you know their preference
im joking before you go crazy lol -
ZWICK 4 PREZ
like_that;1784227 wrote:Lol, I live in DC. My views are in the minority. I am highly outnumbered by my friends.
lol I know.. believe it or not I don't mind you at all, like_that. Ive got a very good friend who calls me out on my hyperbolic shit which I admittedly have a terrible tendency to do... you're that role on here. Well you and QCB. -
ptown_trojans_1
This may surprise you, but same here.like_that;1784227 wrote:Lol, I live in DC. My views are in the minority. I am highly outnumbered by my friends.
I am considered the R in my group of friends. Then again, they are pretty freaking liberal. -
ZWICK 4 PREZ
I'm very liberal even compared to my liberal friends. But I don't think that surprises anyone lolptown_trojans_1;1784234 wrote:This may surprise you, but same here.
I am considered the R in my group of friends. Then again, they are pretty freaking liberal.