Free community college
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isadore
TheCon_Alma;1695484 wrote:I didn't make an argument. I asked a question.
Where is it defined as a basic right to receive "free" collegiate level services?
I am open to learnign that this is indeed a right but can't find it legally stated as so.
Northwest Ordinance of 1787 called for a public university as part of the settlement and eventual statehood of the Ohio Territory: "Religion, morality and knowledge being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio_University#18th_and_19th_centuries
The Ohio State Constitution requires the General Assembly to provide and fund "a thorough and efficient system of common schools throughout the State."
http://www.schoolfunding.info/states/oh/lit_oh.php3
A thorough 21[SUP]st[/SUP] education includes a post secondary schooling for all who wish it. -
isadore
[h=3]Money for College[/h]State and local funds per full-time student (not including financial aid, research, etc.) have dropped in nearly every state since 2007. Figures in 2012 dollarsCon_Alma;1695483 wrote:The percentage may but the total dollars spent has increased.
Ohio $4997 to $3,663 one year drop of 13% 5 year drop of 26.7%
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2013/09/02/state-funding-declines-raise-tuition/2707837/ -
isadore
We see what the President is offering.Con_Alma;1695487 wrote:Don't be so sure about that. Society hasn't pushed their representatives to put free collegiate services through legislatively.
I think you are speaking wishfully as opposed to reality. -
Spock
welcome to 10 years ago. Kids already do this. Its called PSEOAl Bundy;1695469 wrote:Why not fix some things in the k-12 system first? Give high school juniors/seniors the opportunity to take community college courses as their electives. It would give students an idea of what the expectations would be and it could just incorporate tax dollars that are already there. -
Ytowngirlinfla
Shit they were doing this when I was in High School and I graduated in 1998.Spock;1695505 wrote:welcome to 10 years ago. Kids already do this. Its called PSEO -
rmolin73
It was meant in jest due to gut's mindset. I support anyone as well who seeks higher education whether it be by grants, scholarships, or student loans.Con_Alma;1695489 wrote:Big generalisation here. I never took a student loan out and I support those who think they are increasing their marketability from their education to be able to pay loans for said education. It has nothing to do with "since I went into debt, everyone should. That's garbage.
I have a problem with people taking out student loans for living expenses. That poor financial decision making. You don't go into debt for operating expenses. There's no return on that investment. I understand taking a loan for the educational services to increase your market value but to do so for living expenses isn't very smart.
I also have a problem with people using the majority of their student loan money for the wrong things and then drop out. -
Con_Alma
I have. The people through their representatives aren't likely to make it happen. I think you even commented as such in a condescending manner earlier in this thread.isadore;1695497 wrote:We see what the President is offering. -
Con_Alma
Ahh. I didn't catch on to that. My apologies.rmolin73;1695514 wrote:It was meant in jest due to gut's mindset. I support anyone as well who seeks higher education whether it be by grants, scholarships, or student loans.
I also have a problem with people using the majority of their student loan money for the wrong things and then drop out. -
Con_Alma
...or even the new program College Plus.Spock;1695505 wrote:welcome to 10 years ago. Kids already do this. Its called PSEO -
Con_Almaisadore;1695495 wrote:Money for College
State and local funds per full-time student (not including financial aid, research, etc.) have dropped in nearly every state since 2007. Figures in 2012 dollars
Ohio $4997 to $3,663 one year drop of 13% 5 year drop of 26.7%
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2013/09/02/state-funding-declines-raise-tuition/2707837/
Total dollars are at their highest level.
The easy money to be found by students has increased tuition dramatically and why not. More money doesn't make things more affordable. It just pushed prices higher and makes them more expensive.
The current offer by the President will have the same effect. There's no reason for a CC to be a cost effective, affordable solution any longer. -
Con_Alma
Lol . None of those define a free college education as a right.isadore;1695492 wrote:The
Northwest Ordinance of 1787 called for a public university as part of the settlement and eventual statehood of the Ohio Territory: "Religion, morality and knowledge being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio_University#18th_and_19th_centuries
The Ohio State Constitution requires the General Assembly to provide and fund "a thorough and efficient system of common schools throughout the State."
http://www.schoolfunding.info/states/oh/lit_oh.php3
A thorough 21[SUP]st[/SUP] education includes a post secondary schooling for all who wish it. -
isadore
I am sorry for you that you can not see the obvious.Con_Alma;1695529 wrote:Lol . None of those define a free college education as a right. -
isadore
unbelievable, how completely stupid of you.Con_Alma;1695527 wrote:Total dollars are at their highest level.
The easy money to be found by students has increased tuition dramatically and why not. More money doesn't make things more affordable. It just pushed prices higher and makes them more expensive.
The current offer by the President will have the same effect. There's no reason for a CC to be a cost effective, affordable solution any longer.
According to you view, the cut in state funding should be lowering tuition. -
isadore
gosh a ruddies the President is one of two representative elected by the whole nation. Therefore he would be most representative of the American people.Con_Alma;1695520 wrote:I have. The people through their representatives aren't likely to make it happen. I think you even commented as such in a condescending manner earlier in this thread. -
Con_Alma
Nope...but the massive increase in easy funds does raise tuition. The current greater than inflation raise in tuition price is an example.isadore;1695546 wrote:unbelievable, how completely stupid of you.
According to you view, the cut in state funding should be lowering tuition. -
Con_Almaisadore;1695552 wrote:gosh a ruddies the President is one of two representative elected by the whole nation. Therefore he would be most representative of the American people.
He's not part of the House of Representatives which is what I spoke of. He can't....or at keast he shouldn't,
legislate. -
Con_Alma
It is quite obvious from a legal perspective. I see it it just fine.isadore;1695545 wrote:I am sorry for you that you can not see the obvious. -
isadore
we have less and less per student support by states.Con_Alma;1695555 wrote:Nope...but the massive increase in easy funds does raise tuition. The current greater than inflation raise in tuition price is an example.
"The Surprising Causes of Those College Tuition Hikes
The main reason tuition has been rising faster than college costs is that colleges had to make up for reductions in the per-student subsidy state taxpayers sent colleges"
http://www.usnews.com/education/articles/2009/01/15/the-surprising-causes-of-those-college-tuition-hikes -
isadore
When he presents potential legislation he is the highest representative elected by all the American people. He reflects their will more than any other individual.Con_Alma;1695558 wrote:He's not part of the House of Representatives which is what I spoke of. He can't....or at keast he shouldn't, legislate. -
isadore
yes it is, a "thorough" education would include post secondary schooling.Con_Alma;1695560 wrote:It is quite obvious from a legal perspective. I see it it just fine. -
Con_Almaisadore;1695609 wrote:yes it is, a "thorough" education would include post secondary schooling.
Thorough is subjective my friend and hardly legally binding as to create a right. Lol -
Con_Alma
Huh? Since when has the President ever introduced a Bill and refered it to a committee?isadore;1695600 wrote:When he presents potential legislation...
I don't think so. The Executive branch can set *an agenda but he's not introducing a Bill. -
Con_Alma
We have the highest level of total dollars spent in this State no matter what that amount is per student. The State continues to increase the amount it provides for education.isadore;1695592 wrote:we have less and less per student support by states.
"The Surprising Causes of Those College Tuition Hikes
The main reason tuition has been rising faster than college costs is that colleges had to make up for reductions in the per-student subsidy state taxpayers sent colleges"
http://www.usnews.com/education/articles/2009/01/15/the-surprising-causes-of-those-college-tuition-hikes -
Con_Alma
If you believe the States are putting less into the system, which isn't true in total dollars, where do you see them getting an additional $20 Billion from to provide free educational services?isadore;1695592 wrote:we have less and less per student support by states.
"The Surprising Causes of Those College Tuition Hikes
The main reason tuition has been rising faster than college costs is that colleges had to make up for reductions in the per-student subsidy state taxpayers sent colleges"
http://www.usnews.com/education/articles/2009/01/15/the-surprising-causes-of-those-college-tuition-hikes -
isadore
the President and the Executive Branch are the number one source for potential legislationCon_Alma;1695558 wrote:He's not part of the House of Representatives which is what I spoke of. He can't....or at keast he shouldn't, legislate.