the rich get richer
-
Al Bundy
California must be a financially stable state since everyone is well educatedisadore;1580937 wrote:maybe something similar to the old California state system:
In the 1950s, the state's legislators and academic administrators foresaw an approaching surge in University enrollment, due to the baby boomers (people born after 1945) coming of age. They needed a plan to be able to maintain educational quality in the face of growing demand. The underlying principles that they sought were:
- that some form of higher education ought to be available to all regardless of their economic means, and that academic progress should be limited only by individual proficiency; and
- differentiation of function so that each of the three systems would strive for excellence in different areas, so as to not waste public resources on duplicate efforts.
The Plan laid out that the top 12.5% (1/8th) of graduating high school seniors would be guaranteed a place at one of the University of California campuses (Berkeley, Los Angeles, etc.); the top third would be able to enter the California State University (San Francisco State, Cal State L.A., etc.); and that the community colleges (Bakersfield College, College of the Canyons, etc.) would accept all applications. Previously the UC's admissions standards allowed the top 15% of the state to enroll, and the CSU would accept the top half. These percentages are now enforced by sliding scales equating grade point average and scores on the SAT Reasoning Test or ACT, which are recalculated every year. No actual rank of the students in high school are used as many schools do not rank students.
Graduates of the community colleges would then be guaranteed transfer to the Cal State or UC systems in order to complete Bachelor's degrees. This practice was carried over from previous years before the Plan was enacted, with graduates from the CCC being accepted as third-year students at the Universities by virtue of their prior coursework. Finally, the Plan established that the University of California would be the sole portion of the system charged with performing academic research, and would award master's and doctoral degrees in support of that mission. The Cal State system, in addition to awarding master's degrees, would be able to award joint doctorates with the UC.
-
Con_Alma
For anyone. Anyone can attend.isadore;1580924 wrote:not for millions. and that is why the number of poor in college in stagnating while the rich number is skyrocketing. -
isadore
the rich and the greedy undermined the program, causing changes that undermined the pledge of free post secondary educationAl Bundy;1580951 wrote:California must be a financially stable state since everyone is well educated -
isadore
not without money for millionsCon_Alma;1580954 wrote:For anyone. Anyone can attend. -
Con_Almaisadore;1580962 wrote:not without money for millions
I'm not sure I even understand what that means but anyone can enter. There are not income or asset requirements. The poor need nothing to get in and attend....nothing. -
isadore
nothing but what the poor do not have, moneyCon_Alma;1580975 wrote:I'm not sure I even understand what that means but anyone can enter. There are not income or asset requirements. The poor need nothing to get in and attend....nothing. -
HitsRus
This means nothing because it only speaks to admission, not financing.The Plan laid out that the top 12.5% (1/8th) of graduating high school seniors would be guaranteed a place at one of the University of California campuses (Berkeley, Los Angeles, etc.); the top third would be able to enter the California State University (San Francisco State, Cal State L.A., etc.); and that the community colleges (Bakersfield College, College of the Canyons, etc.) would accept all applications. Previously the UC's admissions standards allowed the top 15% of the state to enroll, and the CSU would accept the top half. These percentages are now enforced by sliding scales equating grade point average and scores on the SAT Reasoning Test or ACT, which are recalculated every year. No actual rank of the students in high school are used as many schools do not rank students.
It would cost $1 billion/year to provide 'free' tuition to 'all' for The Ohio State University main campus ALONE....on top of the 1/2 billion that the State of Ohio already provides. That does not include room and board.
^^^a useless 'class baiting' charge that is at best inaccurate.the rich and the greedy undermined the program, causing changes that undermined the pledge of free post secondary education
The 'rich' don't have a problem with paying tuition and thus have no reason to undermine the programs.
There are 'greedy' families that do scam the system and they are usually middle class people unwilling to make the smallest sacrifice to support their kids college education.
If you wish I can provide plenty of anecdotes just from people I know personally. In my opinion...which is at least as good as yours, the lagging enrollment/financing is due to a destruction of family values and support, and a system that encourages and rewards irresponsibility. Throwing more money at it would only encourage more 'scamming'. -
isadore
gosh a ruddies do you have a source for that one billion dollar claim. But if its true, so what, it would be money well spent.HitsRus;1580987 wrote:This means nothing because it only speaks to admission, not financing.
It would cost $1 billion/year to provide 'free' tuition to 'all' for The Ohio State University main campus ALONE. That does not include room and board.
^^^a useless 'class baiting' charge that is at best inaccurate.
The 'rich' don't have a problem with paying tuition and thus have no reason to undermine the programs.
There are 'greedy' families that do scam the system and they are usually middle class people unwilling to make the smallest sacrifice to support their kids college education.
duh, the rich don't want to pay the taxes that would provide education for all. -
HitsRus
LOL. You have found and have sources for all your obscure studies and BS speculations, and you can't google TOSU's budget which is common public information?gosh a ruddies do you have a source for that one billion dollar claim
I did understate goverment's current support though. The State pays $1/2 billion and other government sources add $1/2 billion which essentially matches student fees. Apparently 50% support is not enough in your opinion.....and let's not forget that 228,00 donors and alumni added $374 million to the University's income....voluntary 'tax' and support.
I'll indulge you again....
http://www.osu.edu/osutoday/stuinfo.php#budget
More LOL.....How much are you going to raise my taxes so I don't have to pay my kids tuition? I think we might have have a deal!duh, the rich don't want to pay the taxes that would provide education for all. -
isadore
Gosh a ruddies thank you for your indulgence in finding the site for me.HitsRus;1581007 wrote:LOL. You have found and have sources for all your obscure studies and BS speculations, and you can't google TOSU's budget which is common public information?
I did understate goverment's current support though. The State pays $1/2 billion and other government sources add $1/2 billion which essentially matches student fees. Apparently 50% support is not enough in your opinion.....and let's not forget that 228,00 donors and alumni added $374 million to the University's income....voluntary 'tax' and support.
I'll indulge you again....
http://www.osu.edu/osutoday/stuinfo.php#budget
More LOL.....How much are you going to raise my taxes so I don't have to pay my kids tuition? I think we might have have a deal!
As to the expense, I would hope the taxes to support post secondary would be progressive. Or if FICA based would cover all income, so the cost to you would be depend on your level of income and wealth. -
gut
That's actually a really good point...How much does the taxpayer already pay for other people's kids? Between school levies, tax credits (EIC, among others), and the most money spend on education in the world...not to mention all the various FREE financial aid that is available, not counting affordable student loans.HitsRus;1581007 wrote: More LOL.....How much are you going to raise my taxes so I don't have to pay my kids tuition? I think we might have have a deal!
And that's all well and good (aside from the obvious poor ROI on those education dollars), but if a marginal student decides they can't afford a third-rate university (poor ROI) then I don't have a problem with that. That is not denying someone an education, that's the market saving that kid and the taxpayers from wasting their time and money. -
Con_Alma
...nor do they need it to attain a college degree.isadore;1580978 wrote:nothing but what the poor do not have, money -
isadore
they are being denied the chance for social mobility because on the lack of money.Con_Alma;1581195 wrote:...nor do they need it to attain a college degree. -
Con_Almaisadore;1581270 wrote:they are being denied the chance for social mobility because on the lack of money.
They don't need money to get a secondary degree. -
gut
It sound like what Isadore really wants is a free ride to UC at Dayton so he can get paid an extra $0.25/hr to flip burgers.Con_Alma;1581271 wrote:They don't need money to get a secondary degree. -
isadore
but if they want to have a real chance at social mobility they need a post secondary education.Con_Alma;1581271 wrote:They don't need money to get a secondary degree.
the 40-years earnings estimates areabout $1.0 million (in 1999dollars) for high school dropouts,while completing high schoolwould increase earnings by another
quarter-million dollars (to $1.2 million). People who attend-ed some college (but did not earna degree) might expect work-lifeearnings of about $1.5 million, andslightly more for people with asso-ciates degrees ($1.6 million). Overa work-life, individuals who have abachelor’s degree would earn onaverage $2.1 million — about one-third more than workers who didnot finish college, and nearly twiceas much as workers with only ahigh school diploma. A master’sdegree holder tops a bachelor’sdegree holder at $2.5 million.Doctoral ($3.4 million) and profes-sional degree holders ($4.4 million)do even better
And we see the future will make this split increase more rapidly over the years.
Over the past 25 years, earningsdifferences have grown amongworkers with different levels of edu-cational attainment. As Figure 2shows, in 1975, full-time, year-round workers with a bachelor’sdegree had 1.5 times the annualearnings of workers with only ahigh school diploma.
9By 1999, thisratio had risen to 1.8. Workers withan advanced degree, who earned1.8 times the earnings of highschool graduates in 1975, averaged2.6 times the earnings of workerswith a high school diploma in 1999.During the same period, the relativeearnings of the least educatedworkers fell. While in 1975, [FONT=MJFBF K+ Lucida Sans][FONT=MJFBF K+ Lucida Sans]out a high school diploma earned0.9 times the earnings of workerswith a high school diploma; by1999, they were earning only 0.7times the average earnings of highschool graduates. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=MJFBF K+ Lucida Sans][FONT=MJFBF K+ Lucida Sans] [/FONT][/FONT]http://usgovinfo.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ&zTi=1&sdn=usgovinfo&cdn=newsissues&tm=41&f=00&su=p284.13.342.ip_&tt=2&bt=6&bts=6&zu=http%3A//www.census.gov/prod/2002pubs/p23-210.pdf
　
-
Con_AlmaThe poor don't need money to obtain a secondary degree.
-
isadore
they need money to get a post secondary degree that will give them a real chance at social mobility in the new economy.Con_Alma;1581279 wrote:The poor don't need money to obtain a secondary degree. -
believer
I've read with fascination most of this thread. I still shake my head in amazement at people who think that the only way America's "poor" have a shot at a post-high school education is through confiscatory tax policies and wealth redistribution.
Many of you have already pointed out that there are plenty of grants, affordable loans, financial aid, and work study programs available to those who lack economic resources but possess a sincere desire to obtain a decent education.
I can tell you by personal experience this is true. There was no way my family could afford to send me to college. My parents were too "poor" to pay out-of-pocket, but somehow too "rich" to enable me to qualify for any of the multitudes of financial assistance programs available for the genuinely economically challenged.
Although military service, for example, is not for everyone I financed my own college education by first serving three years of active Army duty and subsequently qualifying for the GI Bill.
I then re-enlisted in the Ohio Air National Guard who - in exchange for a 6 year enlistment - agreed to pay for my tuition. The GI Bill covered room and board. In addition, I received a check for 2 days of service each month that covered my "extra-curricular" activities. I always had summer employment because of 2 weeks of active duty I was required to perform each summer. Plus I always volunteered for additional weeks because it certainly beat flipping burgers or painting houses for a summer job.
Again I'm not suggesting my particular path would suit everyone. I'm simply saying that if ANYONE has the motivation to go to college in this country, there are always options. It's a matter of doing personal homework to research the possibilities and not sitting on your dead ass and expecting the politicians to fund your education with someone else's honest labor. -
Con_Alma
They need not $1 dollar. They can obtain a post secondary education without $1 to their name.isadore;1581280 wrote:they need money to get a post secondary degree that will give them a real chance at social mobility in the new economy. -
isadore"your dead ass"
another example of I got mine, screw them philosophy that dominates on this forum and website. -
believer
I got mine because I actually earned it.isadore;1581285 wrote:"your dead ass"
another example of I got mine, screw them philosophy that dominates on this forum and website. -
gut
Work to get yours, like the rest of us....then come talk.isadore;1581285 wrote:"your dead ass"
another example of I got mine, screw them philosophy that dominates on this forum and website. -
isadore
I got my degrees.gut;1581308 wrote:Work to get yours, like the rest of us....then come talk. -
isadore
and I got my degrees but that does not mean I do not realize the problems faced by others.believer;1581289 wrote:I got mine because I actually earned it.