The CT shooting and gun control
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WebFire
I wouldn't quite call it pushing yet. Not saying they won't. But right now it is just one guy saying they can't eliminate the idea, and that if they did it, it would be up to the schools.ccrunner609;1347797 wrote:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/19/ohio-school-safety-training_n_2331992.html
for all of you that called me stupid about training school officials. Look what Ohio is pushing
Read the comments though, to see how much the people support the idea. -
WebFire
Ok, so you can quit claiming you are "right" then?ccrunner609;1347886 wrote:National news organizations report its about 50/50 -
tk421
An interesting read, one I happen to agree with. I doubt Obama seriously thinks anything Biden comes up with has a hope of passing. If you want serious change, you don't put Joe Biden to the task.
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/12/19/3-reasons-gun-control-isnt-going-to-happen -
FootwedgeIn the mid nineties, Australia dealt with a mass shooting of 60 or so people...35 of which were killed. The conservative head of state enacted into law strict gun control measures...passed in 12 short days later.
There has not been one incident of this sort ever since....
One can cite their opinions....but this article's documented facts has convinced me that a drastic overhaul is needed here.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2012/12/16/gun_control_after_connecticut_shooting_could_australia_s_laws_provide_a.html -
tk421
and Australia's gun culture and history is anything like ours because? Why do people keep bringing up other countries like that has anything to do with it? No one else has our history and love of guns. No other country has as many guns in circulation. No other country has it written into the very document that makes this country. Let me remind people, it is called the Bill of Rights, not NEEDS.
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queencitybuckeyeI don't necessarily disagree that changes could be made, but an attempt to mimic their laws would be both cost-prohibitive and would not (or at least should not) pass constitional muster.
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fish82
This.queencitybuckeye;1347960 wrote:I don't necessarily disagree that changes could be made, but an attempt to mimic their laws would be both cost-prohibitive and would not (or at least should not) pass constitional muster.
No one ever mentions in between chanting "we aren't coming for your guns," and "look at Australia," that they did in fact kinda "come for your guns" to get their results. -
LJ
This hasn't been discussed in depth on here at all over the past week or anything.... -
FatHobbit
Someone should start a thread arguing against gun control and use switzerland as an example. -
gut
It's all about appearing to take it seriously and look for "solutions", perhaps even offer a placebo. Aside from a few new gun laws, nothing will be done because when common sense returns people will realize there's little justification for the expense when these kids are more likely to die in a car accident, a fire, or even be kidnapped.tk421;1347920 wrote:An interesting read, one I happen to agree with. I doubt Obama seriously thinks anything Biden comes up with has a hope of passing. If you want serious change, you don't put Joe Biden to the task.
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/12/19/3-reasons-gun-control-isnt-going-to-happen -
MoldyDogSwitzerland actually has "a well regulated militia."
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Footwedge
Well, I'm sure it has. And up until now, I really never thought a gun control plan would make any difference....at all. I never bothered to read the other threads on the subject here or anywhere because the argument for each side is always the same. Always.LJ;1348147 wrote:This hasn't been discussed in depth on here at all over the past week or anything....
So I posted a new thread citing this article....which in essence has changed my mind. I thought it deserved it's own thread. If you want, just call Mr. Redundancy if it makes you feel all fuzzy. -
Footwedge
Nobody is saying that Australia's laws should be aped. But their law model should in fact be viewed very carefully.queencitybuckeye;1347960 wrote:I don't necessarily disagree that changes could be made, but an attempt to mimic their laws would be both cost-prohibitive and would not (or at least should not) pass constitional muster. -
Footwedge
Australia's culture, way of life, is very similar to ours sans the military global intervention. Australia has their own version regarding Bill of Rights.tk421;1347956 wrote:and Australia's gun culture and history is anything like ours because? Why do people keep bringing up other countries like that has anything to do with it? No one else has our history and love of guns. No other country has as many guns in circulation. No other country has it written into the very document that makes this country. Let me remind people, it is called the Bill of Rights, not NEEDS.
They had a real problem (eleven mass killings from deranged individuals), and then finally, they decided to do something about it.
The results of their taking action has been stunning. -
LJ
Footwedge;1348191 wrote: If you want, just call Mr. Redundancy if it makes you feel all fuzzy.
Nah, I'll just merge it into the thread where there have been multiple pages discussing Australia -
Con_Alma
Australia has nothing near the historical significance of guns along with the entertainment influence that originates in the US as it relates to guns.Footwedge;1348198 wrote:Australia's culture, way of life, is very similar to ours sans the military global intervention. Australia has their own version regarding Bill of Rights.
They had a real problem (eleven mass killings from deranged individuals), and then finally, they decided to do something about it.
The results of their taking action has been stunning.
There are no little things as it relates to decisions that relate to our Constitution and the acceptance culturally that firearms have in the U.S.. There's nothing like it in the world for comparative purposes. -
majorspark
Australia is nothing like the United States. It is an island nation with no foreign borders. It has a population of < 23 million. The vast majority of them populate the metropolitan areas and cities along the coast. Australia gives honor and representation to the British crown within its governmental structure. The Union Jack is prominently incorporated onto their national flag.
The United States has long penetrable borders with foreign nations. Most notable the Southern. It has a population > 300 million. It has large population centers in the heart of the country. The USA was born of rebellion by the force of firearms. Codified in its constitution. The Aussies pay cultural homage to the British crown and in American culture the crown is anathema.
You people are going to have to find a unique American solution instead of humping these foreign nations that are nothing like the USA. Neither geographically, demographically, or culturally. -
Footwedge
Bull. The Aussies mirror the US economically and to a degree culturally. They have a very similar tax structure. They employ personal liberties and freedoms that rival the US. They shared the EXACT SAME VIEW as America did regarding gun ownership....until 1996.majorspark;1348407 wrote:Australia is nothing like the United States. It is an island nation with no foreign borders. It has a population of < 23 million. The vast majority of them populate the metropolitan areas and cities along the coast. Australia gives honor and representation to the British crown within its governmental structure. The Union Jack is prominently incorporated onto their national flag.
What the article stated was a 180 in how they would approach the subject of madmen splattering 6 year old brain matter against classroom walls. The old age argument that crime would increase with tighter gun laws has been destroyed by what has happened over the past 16 years in that country.
What do these points have to do with the subject at hand? I see no relevance...if that is your argument.The United States has long penetrable borders with foreign nations. Most notable the Southern. It has a population > 300 million. It has large population centers in the heart of the country. The USA was born of rebellion by the force of firearms. Codified in its constitution. The Aussies pay cultural homage to the British crown and in American culture the crown is anathema.
Us people? Really? So you are OK with the status quo? Maybe you would feel just a little differently if you had to bury your own kindergartener this week.You people are going to have to find a unique American solution instead of humping these foreign nations that are nothing like the USA. Neither geographically, demographically, or culturally.
The idea that "we are America...and therefor we...blah, blah, blah"...is the major reason our foreign policy is criminal, our jail holdings are the highest per capita in the world, and we are by far and away the most hated country around the globe.
Hubris is one on the 7 deadly sins....let me remind you. -
Con_Alma
It lends to the culture that migrated into it's current form.Footwedge;1348646 wrote:...
What do these points have to do with the subject at hand? I see no relevance...if that is your argument.The United States has long penetrable borders with foreign nations. Most notable the Southern. It has a population > 300 million. It has large population centers in the heart of the country. The USA was born of rebellion by the force of firearms. Codified in its constitution. The Aussies pay cultural homage to the British crown and in American culture the crown is anathema.
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We are not going to put the toothpaste back in the tube as it relates to guns in this country. People can pound their fists on the table all they like but time will show that gun will continue to be here to stay. -
FootwedgeAs for Australia's culture being completely different than that of the US.....
From wiki...first sentence after googling Australian culture....
The culture of Australia is essentially a Western culture influenced by the unique geography of the Australian continent, the diverse input of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples, the British colonisation of Australia which began in 1788, and the various waves of multi-ethnic migration which followed.[SUP][1][/SUP] The predominance of the English language, the existence of a democratic system of government drawing upon on British Westminster and American constitutionalist and federalist traditions, Christianity as the dominant religion and the popularity of sports such as cricket and rugby evidence a significant Anglo-Celtic heritage. In the two-and-a-quarter centuries since British settlement, however, Australian culture has diverged significantly, forming a distinct culture.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_Australia
Yeah....no correlation can be made between the 2 countries. Right. -
Footwedge
Guns are "still here to stay" in Australia too. It's the automatic and rapid fire weapons that have strict controls now. Nobody is calling for America to be a gun free country. That's hyperbole of the nth degree from the NRA Lobby.Con_Alma;1348648 wrote:It lends to the culture that migrated into it's current form.
We are not going to put the toothpaste back in the tube as it relates to guns in this country. People can pound their fists on the table all they like but time will show that gun will continue to be here to stay. -
LJ
Footwedge;1348782 wrote:Guns are "still here to stay" in Australia too. It's the automatic and rapid fire weapons that have strict controls now. Nobody is calling for America to be a gun free country. That's hyperbole of the nth degree from the NRA Lobby.
That is patently false, and if you believe that about Australia, you either know absolutely nothing about guns or nothing about their laws. -
LJ
Footwedge;1348779 wrote:As for Australia's culture being completely different than that of the US.....
From wiki...first sentence after googling Australian culture....
The culture of Australia is essentially a Western culture influenced by the unique geography of the Australian continent, the diverse input of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples, the British colonisation of Australia which began in 1788, and the various waves of multi-ethnic migration which followed.[SUP][1][/SUP] The predominance of the English language, the existence of a democratic system of government drawing upon on British Westminster and American constitutionalist and federalist traditions, Christianity as the dominant religion and the popularity of sports such as cricket and rugby evidence a significant Anglo-Celtic heritage. In the two-and-a-quarter centuries since British settlement, however, Australian culture has diverged significantly, forming a distinct culture.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_Australia
Yeah....no correlation can be made between the 2 countries. Right.
Maybe you should research the value of their hunting industry vs ours. -
James Gatz
The USA was also born and largely built with people believing they had the right to take other humans as property. Things change, and on more than one issue, the "rest of the world" has been culturally ahead of the United States.majorspark;1348407 wrote:The USA was born of rebellion by the force of firearms. Codified in its constitution. The Aussies pay cultural homage to the British crown and in American culture the crown is anathema. -
majorspark
And how did that change come about in the USA? By force of firearms and 600,000+ dead Americans. While in most of the "rest of the world" the abolition of slavery was achieved through largely peaceful means. The "gun culture" in the USA is not changing anytime soon. Unless of course we want to fight about it.James Gatz;1348863 wrote:The USA was also born and largely built with people believing they had the right to take other humans as property. Things change, and on more than one issue, the "rest of the world" has been culturally ahead of the United States.