Disgusted with obama administration - Part II

• believer

  

  majorspark;1441709 wrote:Heads need to roll over this. Taxes are necessary function of government. Any notion that the federal tax collecting authority could be used as a political tool must be vanquished posthaste. The political impartiality of the IRS is vital to the internal security of this nation. The commissioner of the IRS should resign immediately. Those responsible should be relieved of their duties.

  Not gonna happen to anyone on Teflon Barry's watch.
  
  The Sunday morning political pundits and the MSM are all going to ignore this or sweep in under the rug and angrily exclaim, "WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE?"
  
  To the left the IRS is a tool for furthering their socialist agenda. They see the IRS as their ally in wealth redistribution when it should be - as you state so aptly - politically impartial. It should simply be a politically neutral agency whose sole job is to enforce tax code and collect revenues for legitimate government business....nothing more.
  
  I'm not surprised at all that Barry's Bunch sees it as something else. Chicago Machine politics in DC should NOT be tolerated.
• gut

  To me the IRS deal is a huge scandal. While I still think it's a huge leap to suggest Obama or someone high up in the administration drove this, this is a form of intimidation that is deeply concerning for a democratic system. It's an attempt to silence the opposition. People SHOULD go to jail for this.
• believer

  

  gut;1441785 wrote:To me the IRS deal is a huge scandal. While I still think it's a huge leap to suggest Obama or someone high up in the administration drove this, this is a form of intimidation that is deeply concerning for a democratic system. It's an attempt to silence the opposition. People SHOULD go to jail for this.

  I don't think it's a stretch at all. The commissioner of the IRS is appointed by the POTUS with a Senate okee dokee.
  
  From Big Sis to Eric Holder to just about everyone else in Barry's Bunch, silencing the opposition - with the complicity of the leftist Obama-worshiping press - has been paramount to pushing their particularly acute socialist agenda.
  
  Will any heads roll? Doubtful. Now, if Barry were a Repub POTUS rest assured there would be sacrificial lambs aplenty.
• gut

  believer;1441813 wrote: From Big Sis to Eric Holder to just about everyone else in Barry's Bunch, silencing the opposition - with the complicity of the leftist Obama-worshiping press - has been paramount to pushing their particularly acute socialist agenda.

  That's actually a fair point, but I can't be that cynical. Obama always seems to try to have legal standing - he may be stretching that, but I don't really think he would do something clearly illegal. Although he may have the narcissism and ego for it.
  
  Again, you can pretty much guarantee plausible deniability from any high ranking official (and the IRS is already pointing the finger at "lone wolfs"). Then again, when the investigations start are these "true believers" willing to go to jail to protect those above them?
  
  But I do agree with you that the administration perhaps tends to hire people that fully support the agenda. It may not even require a wink and a nod, there are certainly plenty out there who might justify questionable means in order to serve the greater good.
  
  Anyway, I think this is and should be bigger than Benghazi. This is coercion and intimidation of political opposition. I will be absolutely appalled if the leftist media looks the other way on this. Sooner or later you think they'd wake-up to the reality that "their guy" to advance their agenda is doing more harm than good.
• fish82

  

  gut;1441785 wrote:To me the IRS deal is a huge scandal. While I still think it's a huge leap to suggest Obama or someone high up in the administration drove this, this is a form of intimidation that is deeply concerning for a democratic system. It's an attempt to silence the opposition. People SHOULD go to jail for this.

  Well, the "lower level employees" story has already been shot to sht, so who knows where it will go.....
  
  http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_IRS_POLITICAL_GROUPS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-05-11-19-11-24
  

  The IRS said Friday that it was sorry for what it called the "inappropriate" targeting of the conservative groups during the 2012 election to see if they were violating their tax-exempt status. The agency blamed low-level employees, saying no high-level officials were aware.
  
  
  But according to a draft of a watchdog's report obtained Saturday by The Associated Press that seemingly contradicts public statements by the IRS commissioner, senior IRS officials knew agents were targeting tea party groups as early as 2011.
  

• gut

  fish82;1441973 wrote:Well, the "lower level employees" story has already been shot to sht, so who knows where it will go.....

  I don't think I'd draw that conclusion just yet. It's not clear to me that they continued to allow it. All that story really says is they learned of it in mid-2011. Doesn't say what internal sanctions were taken - at this point doesn't say anything more to me than a few rogues got busted and senior officials looked for a path to CYA.
  
  What is interesting to me is how it gets discovered. Even assuming a few rogue agents would risk their job and possibly jail time, I can't imagine they would tell anyone. Sounds to me like an open and coordinated effort, relatively speaking, that didn't see it or fear it as wrongdoing. And that sort of culture can only be established/directed by senior managers.
  
  And I could actually see this as NOT politically motivated. It's not hard to imagine a horribly misguided/ignorant liberal believing that people who oppose higher taxes and govt spending are more likely to cheat and evade.
• fish82

  

  gut;1441999 wrote:I don't think I'd draw that conclusion just yet. It's not clear to me that they continued to allow it. All that story really says is they learned of it in mid-2011. Doesn't say what internal sanctions were taken - at this point doesn't say anything more to me than a few rogues got busted and senior officials looked for a path to CYA.
  
  What is interesting to me is how it gets discovered. Even assuming a few rogue agents would risk their job and possibly jail time, I can't imagine they would tell anyone. Sounds to me like an open and coordinated effort, relatively speaking, that didn't see it or fear it as wrongdoing. And that sort of culture can only be established/directed by senior managers.
  
  And I could actually see this as NOT politically motivated. It's not hard to imagine a horribly misguided/ignorant liberal believing that people who oppose higher taxes and govt spending are more likely to cheat and evade.

  I thought the original story stated that it went on through 2012, and the higher-ups "just found out about it, and put a stop to it immediately," or something like that.
• QuakerOats

  gut;1441785 wrote:To me the IRS deal is a huge scandal. While I still think it's a huge leap to suggest Obama or someone high up in the administration drove this, this is a form of intimidation that is deeply concerning for a democratic system. It's an attempt to silence the opposition. People SHOULD go to jail for this.

  \
  
  
  IRS Probe Expands To Groups Opposed To Gov't, Teaching Constitution...
  Scrutiny Was Deeper Than Thought...
  UPDATE: IRS also targeted tax-exempt status of Jewish groups...
  'Absolutely chilling'...
  House committee demands all communications by Wednesday...
  Michelle to grads: Seek out those with different beliefs...
  
  
  
  
  
  
• QuakerOats

  Our country is upside down ......more so than many thought ....... change we can believe in ... wow
• believer

  

  QuakerOats;1442086 wrote:Our country is upside down ......more so than many thought ......

  Not about to change anytime soon. Still have 3 and a half years to endure and the media is already salivating over another Hillary run despite Benghazi.
• gut

  believer;1442088 wrote:Not about to change anytime soon. Still have 3 and a half years to endure and the media is already salivating over another Hillary run despite Benghazi.

  As much as I despise Hillary and think the Clintons are the epitome of "shady politician", she would be head and shoulders better than Obama. Heck, Biden is an idiot and he would probably do a better job than Obama. Maybe that's just because Obama doesn't really do the job.
  
  But I'll tell you what...between Benghazi and the IRS, among other things, Rand Paul's message is really going to resonate.
• believer

  

  gut;1442108 wrote:As much as I despise Hillary and think the Clintons are the epitome of "shady politician", she would be head and shoulders better than Obama. Heck, Biden is an idiot and he would probably do a better job than Obama. Maybe that's just because Obama doesn't really do the job.

  Without a doubt on all counts. The MSM ironically assisted Obama in defeating Queen Hillary 5 years ago, but I have a solid hunch these clowns now regret that decision.
  

  gut;1442108 wrote:But I'll tell you what...between Benghazi and the IRS, among other things, Rand Paul's message is really going to resonate.

  I'd like to hope so but I swear to you that the MSM is so far up Obama's and Hillary's arsses that they'll find a way to help these two skirt the issue. Both issues will get swept under the rug....count on it.
• fish82

  

  Looks like this IRS thing is starting to gain some serious traction. Obviously Lois Learner will fall on her sword, and the hope will be that ends it. With Shulman being out of office, It'll be interesting to get his take on the what/where/why.
  
  I find it hard to believe that a Dubya appointee would sign off on such shenanigans without some "influence."
• QuakerOats

  obama's government targeting American patriots and teachers of the Constitution.
  
  
  We have elected the enemy.
• gut

  fish82;1442167 wrote:Looks like this IRS thing is starting to gain some serious traction. Obviously Lois Learner will fall on her sword, and the hope will be that ends it. With Shulman being out of office, It'll be interesting to get his take on the what/where/why.
  
  I find it hard to believe that a Dubya appointee would sign off on such shenanigans without some "influence."

  It's shocking that the IRS was even targeting political groups to begin with. That they were only targeting "conservative" groups - which these days means any group not perfectly aligned with liberal views - is simply beyond appalling.
  
  Someone had some serious stones to do this. And I have to agree, this isn't a path you'd expect lifers to go down. I don't think intimidation was the purpose of the audits, I think the goal was to find dirt on the opposition for the 2012 elections. You can guess who in the DNC/Obama's campaign might engage such tactics.
• QuakerOats

  Easily an impeachable offense if the dots all connect.
• gut

  Obama on now dismissing the issue of Benghazi talking points. Then why, Mr. President, is the video maker in jail? Wow, Obama is angry, defiant, bitter and indignant. Yeah, Mr. President, a cover-up defies logic...so why do you continue to deny the cover-up to this day?
  
  He also claimed he learned about the IRS stuff on Friday "like most Americans". Seriously? We're to believe the POTUS had no advance warning of this bombshell.
  
  Obama is a liar. Plain and simple.
• BoatShoes

  gut;1442243 wrote:It's shocking that the IRS was even targeting political groups to begin with. That they were only targeting "conservative" groups - which these days means any group not perfectly aligned with liberal views - is simply beyond appalling.
  
  Someone had some serious stones to do this. And I have to agree, this isn't a path you'd expect lifers to go down. I don't think intimidation was the purpose of the audits, I think the goal was to find dirt on the opposition for the 2012 elections. You can guess who in the DNC/Obama's campaign might engage such tactics.

  Actually it's not hard to believe that the IRS might have thought 501(c)(4)'s were not actually organized for "social welfare" purposes. That is the IRS' job to enforce that. However, singling out conservative groups...even if they were the worst offenders...is terrible though and at the very least looks political even if it ends up not being so at the end of the day.
  
  The enforcement of the s501 prohibition on political activity by certain types of groups has always been abysmal and inevitably political. the Bush administration faced scrutiny because the IRS didn't bring cases against a bunch of churches alleged with violating 501(c)(3) and even though it was not a political decision at the top it had the appearance that it was.
  
  The enforcement arm of the IRS ought to be organized as an independent commission like FOMC so they can enforce these prohibitions without political fallout or political pressure.
• majorspark

  

  "We're gonna punish our enemies and we're gonna reward our friends who stand with us on issues that are important to us"
  
  Who knew Obama might actually have been telling the truth.
• QuakerOats

  NEW 'ENEMIES LIST'...
  IRS Began Targeting Conservatives in March 2010...
  Tea Party groups threaten to sue...
  BOOK: IRS retaliates against outspoken business leaders...
  Probe Expands To Groups Opposed To Gov't, Teaching Constitution...
  Scrutiny Deeper Than Thought...
  'Kept shifting targets in tax-exempt groups'...
  Agency accused of leaking confidential tax documents during election...
  FLASHBACK: Romney donor vilified by Obama campaign, then subjected to 2 audits...
  Did Plouffe Justify IRS Targeting Conservative Groups?
• majorspark

  

  gut;1442243 wrote:It's shocking that the IRS was even targeting political groups to begin with. That they were only targeting "conservative" groups - which these days means any group not perfectly aligned with liberal views - is simply beyond appalling.
  
  Someone had some serious stones to do this. And I have to agree, this isn't a path you'd expect lifers to go down. I don't think intimidation was the purpose of the audits, I think the goal was to find dirt on the opposition for the 2012 elections. You can guess who in the DNC/Obama's campaign might engage such tactics.

  There are allegations out there that IRS employees leaked confidential tax information to political enemies. And the IRS are going to be the enforcers of Obamacare.
  
  http://dailycaller.com/2013/05/13/the-irs-admits-to-targeting-conservative-groups-but-were-they-also-leaking/
  
  
  
• gut

  BoatShoes;1442289 wrote: The enforcement of the s501 prohibition on political activity by certain types of groups has always been abysmal and inevitably political. the Bush administration faced scrutiny because the IRS didn't bring cases against a bunch of churches alleged with violating 501(c)(3) and even though it was not a political decision at the top it had the appearance that it was.
  
  The enforcement arm of the IRS ought to be organized as an independent commission like FOMC so they can enforce these prohibitions without political fallout or political pressure.

  I don't disagree, but I would be interested to see these questionnaires and also know who that information was distributed to. It very much has the appearance that these conservative groups were targeted with a primary, or at least secondary, purpose of gathering political dirt.
• fish82

  

  BoatShoes;1442289 wrote:Actually it's not hard to believe that the IRS might have thought 501(c)(4)'s were not actually organized for "social welfare" purposes. That is the IRS' job to enforce that. However, singling out conservative groups...even if they were the worst offenders...is terrible though and at the very least looks political even if it ends up not being so at the end of the day.

  How are conservative groups the "worst offenders?"
  
  There is no logical explanation why it would "not be political." At this point, the only question is how high up it goes in the food chain.
  

  BoatShoes;1442289 wrote:The enforcement of the s501 prohibition on political activity by certain types of groups has always been abysmal and inevitably political. the Bush administration faced scrutiny because the IRS didn't bring cases against a bunch of churches alleged with violating 501(c)(3) and even though it was not a political decision at the top it had the appearance that it was.

  That's some significant false equivalence.
  
  Along those lines, I see the DailyKook has uncovered some singular far-reaching example from 2004 and is trying to hump it into the "everybody does it" position.
  
  There are zero examples of alleged IRS misconduct that are this far-reaching. None.
• gut

  fish82;1442300 wrote: There are zero examples of alleged IRS misconduct that are this far-reaching. None.

  That may very well be true, but I might question the use of "far-reaching". Sounds like it may have been a single field office in Cincy. Of course, that is probably a regional office, but still hardly a smoking gun of some grand corrupt conspiracy.
  
  I'm a little irritated Obama denied or apparently had no knowledge until Friday. I believe that to be total BS. It's also interesting how Obama qualified his condemnation..."IF" it is true. Compare that to blaming a terrorist attack on a youtube video.
• BoatShoes

  fish82;1442300 wrote:How are conservative groups the "worst offenders?"
  
  There is no logical explanation why it would "not be political." At this point, the only question is how high up it goes in the food chain.
  
  
  
  That's some significant false equivalence.
  
  Along those lines, I see the DailyKook has uncovered some singular far-reaching example from 2004 and is trying to hump it into the "everybody does it" position.
  
  There are zero examples of alleged IRS misconduct that are this far-reaching. None.

  I didn't mean to suggest they were indeed "the worst offenders"...I meant to say it hypothetically...like if that's what the IRS thought there still is no good way for them to stereotype conservative groups based on "playing the odds".
  
  I think this is likely politically motivated...but it certainly could be the case that is not. For all the flack the IRS gets, most of their people are pretty professional. If they thought a significant amount of 501(c)(4)'s calling themselves Tea Party groups were not really organizing for "social welfare" purposes they might have targeted them for non-political purposes. Nevertheless it doesn't make it acceptable and undoubtedly appears corrupt and political even if it is not.
  
  I didn't say it was equivalent...simply an example. Even if this ends up not being political...it unavoidably appears to be and this problem with enforcing s501 has plagued the IRS for years...hence the Bush administration example which was not political but liberal groups treated it as such.
  
  The Congress and Obama should use this incident to try to turn the IRS enforcement arm into an idependent commission to avoid these problems in the future. Maybe that is something that Republicans and the President could agree on?