From my cold dead hand

• dwccrew

  

  isadore;1157914 wrote:lol read and learn little man.

  isadore;1158089 wrote:gosh Con I thought you actually read these threads, my mistake. The little man, DWC

  When being proved wrong by nearly everyone on a thread, resort to namecalling.
• majorspark

  

  isadore;1158249 wrote:No, popular sovereignty precedes the creation of the Constitution. The popular will acting through its elected representatives created the Constitution. WE THE PEOPLE ….. Do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. The People are sovereign not the government. And if they wish, they can do away with any government institution or rule including “the pesky 10[SUP]th[/SUP] Amendment.” They had their representative abolish the Articles of Confederation which allowed the states to be too powerful. As it should be in a representative democracy when a government institution does not serve the people.

  Stronger state sovereignty preceded the constitution. I am sure you would love to do away with that pesky 10th amendment. Seriously man we do not even elect our president with a popular majority. Just ask Al Gore. What governs that. That is right the constitution says the president is not elected by a popular majority but by the states electors. Hence we are a constitutional republic. The constitution rules. Your argument is foolish.
• isadore

  dwccrew;1158344 wrote:When being proved wrong by nearly everyone on a thread, resort to namecalling.

  I took the guy you were giving reps an showed him to be a liar purposely completely misrepresenting.
• dwccrew

  

  isadore;1158353 wrote:I took the guy you were giving reps an showed him to be a liar purposely completely misrepresenting.

  Good for you. You're still wrong about the country being a representative democracy.
• isadore

  majorspark;1158346 wrote:Stronger state sovereignty preceded the constitution. I am sure you would love to do away with that pesky 10th amendment. Seriously man we do not even elect our president with a popular majority. Just ask Al Gore. What governs that. That is right the constitution says the president is not elected by a popular majority but by the states electors. Hence we are a constitutional republic. The constitution rules. Your argument is foolish.

  the outstanding example of state sovereignty was abolished with the end of the Articles of Confederation government which claimed states were sovereign. But which failed utterly and was quickly done away with. The people when they wish can abolish anything in the Constitution. We THE PEOPLE ordained it and can abolish it.
• isadore

  dwccrew;1158357 wrote:Good for you. You're still wrong about the country being a representative democracy.

  The people from the get go, from 1776 had the ultimate power and they used it to create and then abolish the Articles of Confederation and then WE THE PEOPLE ordained the Constitution and could abolish it, they have the power as they should in a representative democracy.
• majorspark

  

  isadore;1158362 wrote:the outstanding example of state sovereignty was abolished with the end of the Articles of Confederation government which claimed states were sovereign. But which failed utterly and was quickly done away with. The people when they wish can abolish anything in the Constitution. We THE PEOPLE ordained it and can abolish it.

  Just ask Al Gore if he thinks state sovereignty was abolished with the end of the articles of confederation.
• dwccrew

  

  isadore;1158371 wrote:The people from the get go, from 1776 had the ultimate power and they used it to create and then abolish the Articles of Confederation and then WE THE PEOPLE ordained the Constitution and could abolish it, they have the power as they should in a representative democracy.

  LOL, the people have no power. They have the illusion of power.
• isadore

  dwccrew;1158384 wrote:LOL, the people have no power. They have the illusion of power.

  that is what the guys in the Articles of Confedertion government said, just before the people put them out of business
• isadore

  majorspark;1158376 wrote:Just ask Al Gore if he thinks state sovereignty was abolished with the end of the articles of confederation.

  whenever the people desire a change the electoral college, the Presidency, the states can all be abolished, the people are sovereign not man made institutions.
• isadore

  all this state sovereigny crap and 10th amendment bs , I seem to remember a bunch of states thought they were sovereign. then the majority of people in this country in their representative democracy showed them otherwise. And that we had a government "of the people, for the people and by the people.' a representative democracy.
• majorspark

  

  isadore;1158405 wrote:whenever the people desire a change the electoral college, the Presidency, the states can all be abolished, the people are sovereign not man made institutions.

  The people don't desire a change. There is no movement for it.
• believer

  

  majorspark;1158410 wrote:The people don't desire a change. There is no movement for it.

  Only some discussion on it and a realization that our Constitutional republic electoral "system" is the best the world has ever known.
• Con_Alma

  isadore;1158089 wrote:gosh Con I thought you actually read these threads, my mistake. The little man, DWC brought this up on 207# on the thread. did you look at the site and check out Daneen, PHD. You used to at least try to get someone with a little acedemic standing, now you have gone completely over the edge. To quote myself from 208# on the thread

  isadore wrote:1. The writer is Daneen Peterson, PHD, Sounds good right, she is a PHD in “behavioral science research methodology and statistics. And now at this far right flake site
  
  http://www.unitedpatriotsofamerica.com/Home/Articles/Params/arcticlecategory/1730/default.aspx
  With their ravings about the coming North American Union

  
  
  Huh? Where they are at doesn't concern me. It's another explanation. Nothing more.
  
  I am far right enough that such an explanation would be representative of my view.

• Con_Alma

  isadore;1158091 wrote:"the people's wishes", the sovereign people acting through their representatives in a representative democracy, the overarching definitive characteristic of American government.

  Yes. Those wishes are displayed in a document. We are those wishes and that document. We are a Constitutional Republic.
• isadore

  majorspark;1158410 wrote:The people don't desire a change. There is no movement for it.

  The idea is not whether they want to change a transient government institution or document but rather they have the power in our representative democracy as you admit.
• isadore

  believer;1158457 wrote:Only some discussion on it and a realization that our Constitutional republic electoral "system" is the best the world has ever known.

  which of course can be changed by the people as the ultimate power and their representatives.
• isadore

  Con_Alma;1158458 wrote:

  isadore;1158089 wrote:gosh Con I thought you actually read these threads, my mistake. The little man, DWC brought this up on 207# on the thread. did you look at the site and check out Daneen, PHD. You used to at least try to get someone with a little acedemic standing, now you have gone completely over the edge. To quote myself from 208# on the thread

  isadore wrote:1. The writer is Daneen Peterson, PHD, Sounds good right, she is a PHD in “behavioral science research methodology and statistics. And now at this far right flake site
  
  http://www.unitedpatriotsofamerica.com/Home/Articles/Params/arcticlecategory/1730/default.aspx
  With their ravings about the coming North American Union
  
  Huh? Where they are at doesn't concern me. It's another explanation. Nothing more.
  
  I am far right enough that such an explanation would be representative of my view.

  as Abraham Lincoln, Vampire Hunter is an explanation of the events leading to the Civil War. Of course the Lincoln book is better written and researched.

• isadore

  Con_Alma;1158460 wrote:Yes. Those wishes are displayed in a document. We are those wishes and that document. We are a Constitutional Republic.

  "We the People" are the ultimate power and act through their representatives in our representative democracy.
• dwccrew

  

  We get it; you wrongly believe that we are not a constitutional republic and that we are a representative democracy. There is no need for you to post that in 5-10 posts. We understood your incorrect understanding the first 3 times.
• Con_Alma

  isadore;1158497 wrote:"We the People" are the ultimate power and act through their representatives in our representative democracy.

  That doesn't change the fact that we the people choose to have a Constitution to refer to for our actions.
• isadore

  dwccrew;1158634 wrote:We get it; you wrongly believe that we are not a constitutional republic and that we are a representative democracy. There is no need for you to post that in 5-10 posts. We understood your incorrect understanding the first 3 times.

  I elaborate, cite sources at time, provide an analysis of points offered. But of course you can chose to ignore them which is of course your right in our representative democracy.
• isadore

  Con_Alma;1158708 wrote:That doesn't change the fact that we the people choose to have a Constitution to refer to for our actions.

  the people choose, the people choose, the people who have ultimate sovereignty choose by having their representatives create whatever transient government document and institutions they wish in our representative democracy.