The Global War on Christians in the Muslim World
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isadore
Yes when nominal Christians committ genocide they are acting in unChrist like. And if only became truly Christ like it would end.dwccrew;1081762 wrote:I'm just saying they're not hypocrites. You have told us time and time again that their founder taught them to participate in the genocide and they are. Christians preach peace, however, they go out and kill everyday. What was the religion of the people that were killing all the Jews during the Holocaust that you learned from? What was the religion of those that were ethnically cleansing the native americans? I'm guessing it was muslims.
When Muslms commit one of their many mass murders they are acting just like Muhammed and the only possible redemption for them and protection for their potential victims is their rejection of the example of thier Prophet. -
isadore
Really Muslims seem so ready to kill army recruiter in Arkansas, a dozen people at Fort Hood, and 150 Americans at the Pentagon and 3000 people at the twin towers. In all cases modeling the behavior of their Prophet.dwccrew;1082548 wrote:Ok? I wasn't arguing who kills more people today or throughout time. I was merely stating that there is Christians today that preach about their religion and then go out and kill in the name of it. I never said it was on as grand of a scale than what muslims are doing over in SE Asia and the Middle East. Also, I hardly believe those muslims in the ME and SE Asia are much of a threat to the United States. They seem to be killing people half a world away. -
majorspark
Thank you. Anytime.isadore;1082632 wrote:It is always nice to get the input of a committed Christian fundamentalist.
+infinityisadore;1082632 wrote:The truth will set you free. -
I Wear Pants
So you ignore the old testament entirely then?isadore;1080758 wrote:Yes there are, mainly in the Old Testament. But if we look at the example of the Christ, the founder of the religion, we have an example of someone not commiting genocide and telling those people stoning a "fallen woman" "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." to prevent her execution. The example of Muhammed from his life is to order assassinations, wars of conquest, ethnic cleansing and genocide. When Muslims participate in campaigns of terror they are following the example of their founder. -
isadore
I have not been discussing the Old Testament or the Quran. My point is the very different natures of the founders of Christianity and Islam.I Wear Pants;1082763 wrote:So you ignore the old testament entirely then?
Oh, did Christians do anything in the Old Testament? -
believer
repsisadore;1082818 wrote:Oh, did Christians do anything in the Old Testament? -
Footwedge
And Isidore...had you been born in Lybia, Jordan, Iraq, Pakistan, or Turkey, you'd be bowing towards Mecca every sundown too. Pretty remarkable, eh?isadore;1080602 wrote:I think if we examined Muslim countries we would find child molestation even more prevalent. They have this example Muhammed married Aisha at 7 and consumated the marriage when she was ten.
People in that part of the world were born in the image and likeness of God too...with their own free will...to choose living a good religious life as both the Qur'an and the Bible teach...or they choose the mantra of "live by the sword and die by the sword".
Yes Mohammed was a warrior. Mainly because he lived in a country that was in a civil war.
Most Christians and Muslins do not want to die in wars...or conquer others through wars. You will always encounter exceptions to the rule...no matter where your Supreme Being allegiances lie...or what geographical lotteries you win. -
isadore
You know I might have had a chance of being non-Muslim in one of those countries if they did not follow the ethnic cleansing and genocidal programs of their Prophet.Footwedge;1083056 wrote:And Isidore...had you been born in Lybia, Jordan, Iraq, Pakistan, or Turkey, you'd be bowing towards Mecca every sundown too. Pretty remarkable, eh?
People in that part of the world were born in the image and likeness of God too...with their own free will...to choose living a good religious life as both the Qur'an and the Bible teach...or they choose the mantra of "live by the sword and die by the sword".
Yes Mohammed was a warrior. Mainly because he lived in a country that was in a civil war.
Most Christians and Muslins do not want to die in wars...or conquer others through wars. You will always encounter exceptions to the rule...no matter where your Supreme Being allegiances lie...or what geological lotteries you win.
The extermination of one and half million Christians in Turkey during WWI cuts down my chances of being born Christian there.
The pogroms in Libya make it impossible for me to be born Jewish in the country. There in1931, there were 21,000 Jews living in the country (4% of the total population of 550,000), now there are none. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_Jews.
Iraq drove out or killed its Jews and in the process of doing it to its Christians. In Pakistan Christians are denied basic rights and attacked with impunity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_Pakistan#Islamist_violence_against_Christians.
Christ was not born into a time of peace and tranquility but it did not cause him to try to spread his faith by genocide or ethnic cleansing. Muhammad set the precedent for his successors and spread his religion through conquest. He lived by the sword (seems to be some question what he died of but it was not the sword) Al Queda and Taliban are just chips off the old block.
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Footwedge
Actually, followers of Islam view Jesus as a prophet sent to earth via vigin birth (Mary)...and many view Him with as much reverance as Mohammed or even moreso than Muhammed..isadore;1083119 wrote:
Christ was not born into a time of peace and tranquility but it did not cause him to try to spread his faith by genocide or ethnic cleansing. Muhammad set the precedent for his successors and spread his religion through conquest. He lived by the sword (seems to be some question what he died of but it was not the sword) Al Queda and Taliban are just chips off the old block.
So your ill fated comparison between the 2 shows me that you do not understand some basic tenets of Islam.
But you did make me chuckle...that you would "choose against Islam" if born in the Middle East...but for the "warmongering religion" of Islam...who would have you killed.
Funny stuff...good imagination there. -
isadore
Oh really, gosh my comparison seems well fated.Footwedge;1083279 wrote:Actually, followers of Islam view Jesus as a prophet sent to earth via vigin birth (Mary)...and many view Him with as much reverance as Mohammed or even moreso than Muhammed..
So your ill fated comparison between the 2 shows me that you do not understand some basic tenets of Islam.
But you did make me chuckle...that you would "choose against Islam" if born in the Middle East...but for the "warmongering religion" of Islam...who would have you killed.
Funny stuff...good imagination there.
it is really is not important what they think of Jesus but what they think of his followers and how they act toward them. Heck they have a positive view of Abraham and Moses but they sure don’t think too much of Jews. But of course good old Muhammad ethnically cleansed and exterminated Jewish tribes. And his modern adherents are just modeling the Prophets behavior toward Jews, Christians and others. -
believer
This.isadore;1083340 wrote:Oh really, gosh my comparison seems well fated.
it is really is not important what they think of Jesus but what they think of his followers and how they act toward them. Heck they have a positive view of Abraham and Moses but they sure don’t think too much of Jews. But of course good old Muhammad ethnically cleansed and exterminated Jewish tribes. And his modern adherents are just modeling the Prophets behavior toward Jews, Christians and others.
For whatever bizarre reason Footwedge (Mr. I Loathe the American War Mongering Machine) has become an apologist for radical Islam.
Most religions have had violent periods in their histories, but one can easily argue that Islam - as a whole - is undeniably the most noticeably and openly violent major world religion at this time in human history.
The so-called "religion of peace" is anything but. -
Footwedge
I've never apologized for Islamic Extremists. Never. I think I've made it pretty clear where I stand. If what is highlighted is true, then why is my link below stating the exact opposite?believer;1083530 wrote:This.
For whatever bizarre reason Footwedge (Mr. I Loathe the American War Mongering Machine) has become an apologist for radical Islam.
Most religions have had violent periods in their histories, but one can easily argue that Islam - as a whole - is undeniably the most noticeably and openly violent major world religion at this time in human history.
The so-called "religion of peace" is anything but.
Evangelicals like yourself have an extremely distorted view on this subject and the broad based hatred for an entire group of people is so unChrist like...and so very un New Testament like, it defies logic. Remember "do not judge...lest ye be judged."
Now take about 10 minutes and read the link below...and you will find that other than some minor prejudices, Christian sects live quite safely and without fear all across the Middle East. Amd they have done so for centuries. These data are fact checked and foot noted showing pretty clear, empiracle proof that you and Isi are factually full of it. Pretty remarkable, indeed, given your warped belief that Islam's supposed tenets include "wiping out all infidels".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-15239529 -
isadore
Gosh your cited source only covers a small part of the Muslim world. And even in the article we getFootwedge;1083581 wrote:I've never apologized for Islamic Extremists. Never. I think I've made it pretty clear where I stand. If what is highlighted is true, then why is my link below stating the exact opposite?
Evangelicals like yourself have an extremely distorted view on this subject and the broad based hatred for an entire group of people is so unChrist like...and so very un New Testament like, it defies logic. Remember "do not judge...lest ye be judged."
Now take about 10 minutes and read the link below...and you will find that other than some minor prejudices, Christian sects live quite safely and without fear all across the Middle East. Amd they have done so for centuries. These data are fact checked and foot noted showing pretty clear, empiracle proof that you and Isi are factually full of it. Pretty remarkable, indeed, given your warped belief that Islam's supposed tenets include "wiping out all infidels".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-15239529
Lebanon “The country fought a civil war from 1975-1989 largely along religious lines, and relations between the patchwork of Lebanon's religious communities remain delicate,” and now “There is a widespread perception among Christians that their numbers and influence are declining.” “, tensions increased in 2005 with the assassination of former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri, the withdrawal of Syrian troops and a wave of bombings in Christian areas.”
West Bank and Gaza, “Christian communities in the West Bank and Gaza have been declining for several decades because of conflict, economic decline and low birth rates.”
“Some Christian leaders also cite the rise of radical Islam in the area as a growing pressure on Christian communities.
Egypt-”Christian-Muslim relations have deteriorated in recent years, with outbreaks of violence by radical Islamists against Christians and their places of worship. Egyptian Christians have accused the post-Mubarak governing military council of being too lenient on the perpetrators of the attacks. Copts also complain of discrimination, including a law requiring presidential permission for churches to be built. “
Iraq-”A rise in attacks on Christians after the US-led invasion in 2003 led to up to half the Christian population leaving, although there are no official statistics.
In November 2010, 52 people were killed as security forces stormed a Catholic church in Baghdad to free dozens of people held hostage. A Sunni militant group claimed responsibility for the attack, the deadliest such incident suffered by Iraq's Christians in modern times.”
Saudi Arabia-”In Saudi Arabia, public expressions of non-Muslim religion are banned.”
We can see the future fate of Christians in Muslim dominated countries by looking at what happened to the Jews. Many of these nations had appreciable Jewish populations that have been ethnically cleansed. Just the way the Prophet did it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_and_Muslim_countries -
believer
this and thank youisadore;1083615 wrote:We can see the future fate of Christians in Muslim dominated countries by looking at what happened to the Jews. Many of these nations had appreciable Jewish populations that have been ethnically cleansed. Just the way the Prophet did it.
Footie, you amaze me...you really do. You'll go out of your way to persuade us that Muslims want to live side-by-side with persons of other faiths in peace and harmony and then make equally absurd statements about Santorum and Gingrich as chomping at the bit to "kill me some Muslims" if they become POTUS.
Can, will, and do some Muslims live peacefully with their non-Muslim neighbors? Sure. But in my lifetime I have yet to see Christians, Jews, Hindus, etc. flying airliners full of innocent people into skyscrapers full of innocent people to please their God.
Allahu Akbar -
Footwedge
Their beef is political, not religion related. That is the fundamental difference between you and me on this issue.believer;1083731 wrote:this and thank you
Can, will, and do some Muslims live peacefully with their non-Muslim neighbors? Sure. But in my lifetime I have yet to see Christians, Jews, Hindus, etc. flying airliners full of innocent people into skyscrapers full of innocent people to please their God.
I was born and raised Catholic...practiced for 50 years...and then succumbed to my wife's wishes of leaving that Church. I spent 4 months with her and my daughter at a Baptist Church, and had to leave because of the Muslim crap rhetoric.
Now we are attending (3 more months) another "born again" type Christian faith church, and I stormed out of there today....for the exact same reason.
I will be going back to the Catholic Church where they preach "Blessed are the peace makers for they are the children of God"...and not "the Muslims are expanding their base and plan to annihilate us Christians".
You say.."sure Footie. there are some Muslims that live peacefully over there...blah, blah, blah, blah"...."some?"
War torn countries in the ME kill for political reasons...not because Mohammed was a warrior during a civil war.
What we need is Otrap to come back and explain the fundamental differences between Christianity, Judaism and Islam. The little that I've read on Judaism and Islam have told me that those 2 religions have a lot in common with each other.
Take your final shot Believer...I'm done discussing this thread. You and I will never be in agreement...and I'm not gonna waste my time doing a google off with Isidore, and his radical views on the overall beliefs of Islam. I heard enough of it at church. -
believer
I was Catholic once myself. Now I'm a member of an evangelical church and have been associated with several evangelical churches for 15 years. In that time I have never heard any pastor specifically preach about "Muslims wanna annihilate us Christians"...ever.Footwedge;1083969 wrote:Now we are attending (3 more months) another "born again" type Christian faith church, and I stormed out of there today....for the exact same reason.
I will be going back to the Catholic Church where they preach "Blessed are the peace makers for they are the children of God"...and not "the Muslims are expanding their base and plan to annihilate us Christians".
They have, however, preached about the persecution Christians will face and how Jesus and his disciples forewarned us of it.
It's odd that your church experiences have had very specific instances of "Muslims gonna get us" messages. If so - and I have my doubts - that is indeed sad and troubling.
If going back to Catholicism will insulate you from your probably exaggerated evangelical paranoia, by all means do it. -
believer
I was Catholic once myself. Now I'm a member of an evangelical church and have been associated with several evangelical churches for 15 years. In that time I have never heard any pastor specifically preach about "Muslims wanna annihilate us Christians"...ever.Footwedge;1083969 wrote:Now we are attending (3 more months) another "born again" type Christian faith church, and I stormed out of there today....for the exact same reason.
I will be going back to the Catholic Church where they preach "Blessed are the peace makers for they are the children of God"...and not "the Muslims are expanding their base and plan to annihilate us Christians".
They have, however, preached about the persecution Christians will face and how Jesus and his disciples forewarned us of it.
It's odd that your church experiences have had very specific instances of "Muslims gonna get us" messages. If so - and I have my doubts - that is indeed sad and troubling.
If going back to Catholicism will insulate you from your probably exaggerated evangelical paranoia, by all means do it. After all, Catholicism has never gotten involved in killing or persecuting non-Catholics for their beliefs. -
believer
I was Catholic once myself. Now I'm a member of an evangelical church and have been associated with several evangelical churches for 15 years. In that time I have never heard any pastor specifically preach about "Muslims wanna annihilate us Christians"...ever.Footwedge;1083969 wrote:Now we are attending (3 more months) another "born again" type Christian faith church, and I stormed out of there today....for the exact same reason.
I will be going back to the Catholic Church where they preach "Blessed are the peace makers for they are the children of God"...and not "the Muslims are expanding their base and plan to annihilate us Christians".
They have, however, preached about the persecution Christians will face and how Jesus and his disciples forewarned us of it.
It's odd that your church experiences have had very specific instances of "Muslims gonna get us" messages. If so - and I have my doubts - that is indeed sad and troubling.
If going back to Catholicism will insulate you from your probably exaggerated evangelical paranoia, by all means do it. After all, Catholicism has never gotten involved in killing or persecuting non-Catholics for their religious beliefs....unless, of course, those beliefs were political in nature.
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believer
I was Catholic once myself. Now I'm a member of an evangelical church and have been associated with several evangelical churches for 15 years. In that time I have never heard any pastor specifically preach about "Muslims wanna annihilate us Christians"...ever.Footwedge;1083969 wrote:Now we are attending (3 more months) another "born again" type Christian faith church, and I stormed out of there today....for the exact same reason.
I will be going back to the Catholic Church where they preach "Blessed are the peace makers for they are the children of God"...and not "the Muslims are expanding their base and plan to annihilate us Christians".
They have, however, preached about the persecution Christians will face and how Jesus and his disciples forewarned us of it.
It's odd that your church experiences have had very specific instances of "Muslims gonna get us" messages. If so - and I have my doubts - that is indeed sad and troubling.
If going back to Catholicism will insulate you from your probably exaggerated evangelical Islamic paranoia, by all means do it. After all, Catholicism has never gotten involved in killing or persecuting non-Catholics for their religious beliefs....unless, of course, those beliefs were political in nature. -
believer
I was Catholic once myself. Now I'm a member of an evangelical church and have been associated with several evangelical churches for 15 years. In that time I have never heard any pastor specifically preach about "Muslims wanna annihilate us Christians"...ever.Footwedge;1083969 wrote:Now we are attending (3 more months) another "born again" type Christian faith church, and I stormed out of there today....for the exact same reason.
I will be going back to the Catholic Church where they preach "Blessed are the peace makers for they are the children of God"...and not "the Muslims are expanding their base and plan to annihilate us Christians".
They have, however, preached about the persecution Christians will face and how Jesus and his disciples forewarned us of it.
It's odd that your church experiences have had very specific instances of "Muslims gonna get us" messages. If so - and with all due respect I have my doubts - that is indeed sad and troubling.
If going back to Catholicism will insulate you from your probably exaggerated evangelical Islamic paranoia, by all means do it. After all, Catholicism has never gotten involved in killing or persecuting non-Catholics for their religious beliefs....unless, of course, those beliefs were political in nature. -
ptown_trojans_1
The Lebanese civil was initially, Christian (Maronite) vs. Islam (Sunni), but it was largely way more complex. The Syrians initially sided on the side of the Christians, and aided them. Then, the Israelis invaded in 82 and sided with the Christians, but also some Muslim sects.isadore;1083615 wrote:Gosh your cited source only covers a small part of the Muslim world. And even in the article we get
Lebanon “The country fought a civil war from 1975-1989 largely along religious lines, and relations between the patchwork of Lebanon's religious communities remain delicate,” and now “There is a widespread perception among Christians that their numbers and influence are declining.” “, tensions increased in 2005 with the assassination of former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri, the withdrawal of Syrian troops and a wave of bombings in Christian areas.”
West Bank and Gaza, “Christian communities in the West Bank and Gaza have been declining for several decades because of conflict, economic decline and low birth rates.”
“Some Christian leaders also cite the rise of radical Islam in the area as a growing pressure on Christian communities.
Egypt-”Christian-Muslim relations have deteriorated in recent years, with outbreaks of violence by radical Islamists against Christians and their places of worship. Egyptian Christians have accused the post-Mubarak governing military council of being too lenient on the perpetrators of the attacks. Copts also complain of discrimination, including a law requiring presidential permission for churches to be built. “
Iraq-”A rise in attacks on Christians after the US-led invasion in 2003 led to up to half the Christian population leaving, although there are no official statistics.
In November 2010, 52 people were killed as security forces stormed a Catholic church in Baghdad to free dozens of people held hostage. A Sunni militant group claimed responsibility for the attack, the deadliest such incident suffered by Iraq's Christians in modern times.”
Saudi Arabia-”In Saudi Arabia, public expressions of non-Muslim religion are banned.”
We can see the future fate of Christians in Muslim dominated countries by looking at what happened to the Jews. Many of these nations had appreciable Jewish populations that have been ethnically cleansed. Just the way the Prophet did it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_and_Muslim_countries
Also add in Hezbollah and Shia Islam, which was against all sides.
So it was not so simple as Christian vs. Islam. There is a reason why it was, and is, one of the most complex civil wars of the past 100 years.
As to today, that has nothing to do with Christian vs. Muslim. It is more the state of Lebanon (Christian and Muslim) vs. Hezbollah and Syria. -
ptown_trojans_1
Yes, God is great isn't he?believer;1083731 wrote: Allahu Akbar -
believer
Indeed..I always shout it out right before I behead someone. I kid of course.ptown_trojans_1;1084080 wrote:Yes, God is great isn't he? -
Footwedge"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities” - Voltaire
“ War is the Terrorism of the Rich... Terrorism is the War of the Poor.” - Peter Ustinov -
isadore
Thanks for the information, it may be more complicated in this instance but around the world from Nigeria to even Indonesia the attacks are on. They drove the Jews out and the Christians are some of the few Dhimmi left and they are beginning to vanish.ptown_trojans_1;1084077 wrote:The Lebanese civil was initially, Christian (Maronite) vs. Islam (Sunni), but it was largely way more complex. The Syrians initially sided on the side of the Christians, and aided them. Then, the Israelis invaded in 82 and sided with the Christians, but also some Muslim sects.
Also add in Hezbollah and Shia Islam, which was against all sides.
So it was not so simple as Christian vs. Islam. There is a reason why it was, and is, one of the most complex civil wars of the past 100 years.
As to today, that has nothing to do with Christian vs. Muslim. It is more the state of Lebanon (Christian and Muslim) vs. Hezbollah and Syria.