Describe How You Think a Merit Based Pay System Would Work
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BRF
BRF;755617 wrote:You will see "the real world" in November on the Referendum. And I'll bet that many of the SB5 booster club on here won't even bother to show up at the polls. (Probably not even registered to vote, too)
What? No responses to this! I know that I will now be hurting our cause by ticking off OC "know-it-alls" to go register to vote. -
sleeper
BRF;756200 wrote:Glory Days! Unemployed with SB5.
Fixed.
BRF;756228 wrote:What? No responses to this! I know that I will now be hurting our cause by ticking off OC "know-it-alls" to go register to vote.
What is there to respond to? I'm registered to vote and I will be voting for SB5. -
BRF
sleeper;756289 wrote:Fixed.
What is there to respond to? I'm registered to vote and I will be voting for SB5.
Dude, I don't appreciate the "fixed" on my quote. But, what ever. You seem to take great delight in inferring that someone loses their job. I find that sad. BTW, I will be cancelling your vote. -
sleeper
BRF;756300 wrote:Dude, I don't appreciate the "fixed" on my quote. But, what ever. You seem to take great delight in inferring that someone loses their job. I find that sad. BTW, I will be cancelling your vote.
QQ.
And yes, after reading the posts of this thread from the anti-SB5 crowd, I've lost all respect for public sector employees. I don't hope that they lose their job, I just hope the wind up wasting their life flippin' burgers at McDonalds rather than waste my taxpayer money and crying because they're finally going to be paid what they deserve. -
BRF
See, your post says it all. Hater. And in early November we will line up and cast our votes. Then we will see who is "QQ".
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CenterBHSFan
BRF: Why do you, as a teacher, believe that you cannot account for yourself concerning pay raises and everything else that comes along with being employed?
I mean, as a teacher, you've obviously got some talking skills and are able to reason. So... I'm not understanding the fear. -
BRF
As I've said before, none of this will affect me. But I have colleagues who I care about. I am speaking for them. Maybe I should tell them to start speaking for themselves?
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sleeper
BRF;756485 wrote:As I've said before, none of this will affect me. But I have colleagues who I care about. I am speaking for them. Maybe I should tell them to start speaking for themselves?
Way to dodge the question. -
dwccrew
Crime isn't always a problem in urban areas. In SOME it is, but cities like NYC have really reduced crime over the past several decades. All I am hearing from you is excuses. Crime can be lowered in urban areas just as much as it can in suburban and rural areas.Glory Days;756153 wrote:No its not a good thing, citizens already hate when cops do their job.
And for the 4001th time, the public sector is not a business, your argument fails everytime. And I thought someone of your superior education would have a better answer than “they will figure it out”.
Also, when you are done crying, you should have become a public worker since they are so well off.
Not only is money collected, but points can be assessed on the driver’s license etc. so there is more than just money involved. Also, officer’s merit is based on several things, citations(sometimes taillight tickets haha) is one of them. Unless an officer is arresting 10 felons a day (which isn’t likely anywhere), having 0 citations will not look good.
Crime going down and less fires though are not always and often results of outside factors, not police or firemen. Plus, cops in urban areas where crime is always a problem will never get paid more no matter how much work they do? That doesn’t make sense. -
CenterBHSFan
BRF;756485 wrote:As I've said before, none of this will affect me. But I have colleagues who I care about. I am speaking for them. Maybe I should tell them to start speaking for themselves?
Ok, so let's hypothetically turn the clock back... let's say 5 years.
Five years ago you could not have managed what it took to be employed on your own?
BTW, any policemen, firefighter, etc. can answer this question also. -
BigdoggYes Governor, we need more schools like this:
http://www.plunderbund.com/2011/05/01/mr-governor-shut-this-school-district-down/The 21st largest school district in the state has had flat or declining test scores for a nine year period; graduation rates of below 35% over that entire time are consistently 20 points lower than Cleveland Schools’ scores, a district that is being discussed for state takeover. Attendance rates are consistently below the state average, while student achievement scores are significantly below state averages. And instead of intervening in year 3 or 4 according to State regulations, the state allowed enrollment to increase at one of the highest rates in the state, allowing a net growth of nearly 2,600 students in the last five years. And instead of taking a financial penalty, the district received 36% more in per pupil funding than the state average. All of this while being run by an unlicensed superintendent and unlicensed assistant superintendent who are each being paid over $100,000 per year (above statewide averages) and teachers are paid an average salary of $34,450, well below the state average of %55,812. -
Glory Days
dwccrew;756589 wrote:Crime isn't always a problem in urban areas. In SOME it is, but cities like NYC have really reduced crime over the past several decades. All I am hearing from you is excuses. Crime can be lowered in urban areas just as much as it can in suburban and rural areas.
crime in any urban area though will always be more than any rural area, thats a fact that will always be true just based on pure numbers. and yes, NYC has reduced crime, but not soley because of the police department. there were no excuses in my response. I never said crime couldnt be lowered, my point was that crime will rise and fall, not always the direct result of police. -
BRF
sleeper;756510 wrote:Way to dodge the question.
Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize that a response was required. Shame on me, given the bullying tone of OC SB5 proponents on here, I should have known.
Sure, I could have negotiated for myself if I had to, but the question is moot because I paid my union dues for this thing called collective bargaining. -
WebFireBullying tone? I am just waiting for good, factual info from you on why SB5 is bad. Not emotional BS about your friends.
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BRF
You just proved my point on the bullying tone.
SB5 will get rid of collective bargaining. Fact. I don't like it. Fact. I will be voting against it. Fact. -
sleeper
BRF;757612 wrote:Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize that a response was required. Shame on me, given the bullying tone of OC SB5 proponents on here, I should have known.
Sure, I could have negotiated for myself if I had to, but the question is moot because I paid my union dues for this thing called collective bargaining.
If you can do something yourself, why do you want to pay someone else to do it? -
BRF
sleeper;757650 wrote:If you can do something yourself, why do you want to pay someone else to do it?
My time? Quite possibly the union doing a better job than I alone with steps set up, etc.?
And, oh, I have done my time by being on the union negotiating team. I did good. It's a good feeling to be able to help out your colleagues, as well as yourself. I feel that many of you union haters don't understand that.....helping others. -
Glory Days
WebFire;757618 wrote:Bullying tone? I am just waiting for good, factual info from you on why SB5 is bad. Not emotional BS about your friends.
Why is SB5 good? because it saves money by adding to the unemployment? (an estimated 55,000 people will lose their jobs). sorry i dont have the link, i heading out the door on the way to work. -
WebFire
No, that HAS to have a link. I don't buy this without proof.Glory Days;757783 wrote:Why is SB5 good? because it saves money by adding to the unemployment? (an estimated 55,000 people will lose their jobs). sorry i dont have the link, i heading out the door on the way to work. -
majorspark
Points are only assessed on moving violations and serious traffic offenses. Not on a citation for a broken taillight. An officer's merit is based on much more than the number of citations. It is based on their wise judgment of a situation. Writing a citation for any broken taillight or for going 3 mph over the speed limit just to get citations shows lack of good judgment. Its bad for public relations. Outsiders will avoid traveling through your locality and state whenever possible.Glory Days;756153 wrote:Not only is money collected, but points can be assessed on the driver’s license etc. so there is more than just money involved. Also, officer’s merit is based on several things, citations(sometimes taillight tickets haha) is one of them. Unless an officer is arresting 10 felons a day (which isn’t likely anywhere), having 0 citations will not look good.
Those paying the bills (the taxpayers) do not want to employ incompetent officers who have no discernment concerning these matters. Follow your supervisor's direction and use wise judgment when pushing yourself to meet or exceed your supervisors guidelines you will be fine. Why don't you come up with a good argument against SB5 instead on these dumb threats that it will cause us to get citations for broken taillights. -
sleeper
Glory Days;757783 wrote:Why is SB5 good? because it saves money by adding to the unemployment? (an estimated 55,000 people will lose their jobs). sorry i dont have the link, i heading out the door on the way to work.
lol wow. Unions are amazing at brainwashing the people that pay their salary. -
CenterBHSFan
Oh I think that some people will most definitely lose their jobs. And maybe rightfully so.
But 55,000? I mean it could happen, I suppose...but...
On the other hand, if 55,000 DO lose their jobs, without hiring any replacements, then I suppose that alot of fat will have been trimmed. I know that sounds harsh and insensitive, but streamlining places of employment isn't a new concept.
That doesn't necessarily mean that quality will fall, though. -
Glory Days
Yup, my bad. The job loss will be the results of the millions of dollars worth of funding Kasich is cutting to cities, not SB5. Although I think SB5 is the result of him cutting the funding, he is trying to fix the state while putting the burden on the cities. I know my city was doing fine(fine is a relative term if you know about my city), then Kasich cut the funding and now lay offs will be taking place soon to make up for 1-2 million lost in funding.WebFire;757799 wrote:No, that HAS to have a link. I don't buy this without proof.
This tactic also leads to low crime rates and is generally the tactic used by small communities to keep criminals out of their community.majorspark;757888 wrote: Writing a citation for any broken taillight or for going 3 mph over the speed limit just to get citations shows lack of good judgment. Its bad for public relations. Outsiders will avoid traveling through your locality and state whenever possible.
Wow, what original anti union rhetoric. :rolleyes:sleeper;757907 wrote:lol wow. Unions are amazing at brainwashing the people that pay their salary. -
WebFire
So your "fine" city was being funded by the state? And now that they have to do it more on their own they can't pay for themselves? Do you not see why we are in this mess?Glory Days;758028 wrote:Yup, my bad. The job loss will be the results of the millions of dollars worth of funding Kasich is cutting to cities, not SB5. Although I think SB5 is the result of him cutting the funding, he is trying to fix the state while putting the burden on the cities. I know my city was doing fine(fine is a relative term if you know about my city), then Kasich cut the funding and now lay offs will be taking place soon to make up for 1-2 million lost in funding.