Governor Kasich

• ManO'War

  

  I lose any respect for people who bring up "high speed rail" in the USA.
  
  It's totally absurd considering 99.99% of the people don't live within walking distance of the train station, so you would need a ride to get where you are going anyways.
  
  The market dictates what will work anyways, so if trains were the way to go, then they would have been doing it a long time ago, instead of ripping out tracks.
• BGFalcons82

  

  OMG...enough already with the blazing image of dump truck-esque "high speed" 49 MPH rail lines crap. Just stop. It's insulting anymore. Unless private industry wants to come up with a train that goes over 200 mph and will challenge the airline industry, it just won't work here. I don't give a shit how many trillions Obama throws at it. It's a failure and to spend 1 dime of taxpayer money is graft/payoff.
• Bigdogg

  BGFalcons82;719069 wrote:OMG...enough already with the blazing image of dump truck-esque "high speed" 49 MPH rail lines crap. Just stop. It's insulting anymore. Unless private industry wants to come up with a train that goes over 200 mph and will challenge the airline industry, it just won't work here. I don't give a shit how many trillions Obama throws at it. It's a failure and to spend 1 dime of taxpayer money is graft/payoff.

  
  Do you have any freaking clue on how much us taxpayers have subsidized the interstate highway system. Why one over the other?
• Bigdogg

  Meet Kasich the candidate vs Kasich the Dictator Governor.
  
  [video=youtube;SJiH5QsLbFw][/video]
• stlouiedipalma

  Hey, those were just snippets of campaign spots. You can't expect a candidate to keep all of his promises. Good lord, where would we be if that ever happened?
• stlouiedipalma

  ManO'War;718192 wrote:I lose any respect for people who bring up "high speed rail" in the USA.
  
  It's totally absurd considering 99.99% of the people don't live within walking distance of the train station, so you would need a ride to get where you are going anyways.
  
  The market dictates what will work anyways, so if trains were the way to go, then they would have been doing it a long time ago, instead of ripping out tracks.

  
  Typical valley mentality at work here. I didn't realize how many people walked to the airport to catch their flights. Are you sure you're not on the other side of the river down there?
• BGFalcons82

  

  Bigdogg;719128 wrote:Do you have any freaking clue on how much us taxpayers have subsidized the interstate highway system. Why one over the other?

  
  This subject has been discussed ad infinitum on here. It's been whipped, drawn, quartered, analyzed, debated, criticized and tossed aside. It's not worthy of debate anymore as it has been determined as a total waste.
  
  To equate a 49 MPH high speed rail system to the interstate highway system is to stretch a rubber band from Cleveland to Cincinnati. Is that all you've got in your quiver?
• Bigdogg

  BGFalcons82;719170 wrote:This subject has been discussed ad infinitum on here. It's been whipped, drawn, quartered, analyzed, debated, criticized and tossed aside. It's not worthy of debate anymore as it has been determined as a total waste.
  
  To equate a 49 MPH high speed rail system to the interstate highway system is to stretch a rubber band from Cleveland to Cincinnati. Is that all you've got in your quiver?

  
  O.K. I will listen to your point of view. please answer this first:
  
  1. What are your qualifications as an expert on Ohio's high speed rail plan (hint if you actually read the proposal you would know it was also about infrastructure improvements for fright also)
  2. If you are not an expert, then please cite the report that you reviewed that found Ohio's proposal was not feasable.
  3. if this is just your opinion, Who the hell cares?
• Writerbuckeye

  

  Bigdogg;719128 wrote:Do you have any freaking clue on how much us taxpayers have subsidized the interstate highway system. Why one over the other?

  
  Because one actually DOES pay for itself in terms of keeping commerce moving (which pays taxes) and providing the most efficient means for people to get about, go to jobs and be productive citizens -- again paying taxes, including the gasoline tax which funds so much of our freeway system. It's more of a users fee than a tax...and you'll never, ever see the day when high speed train can accomplish the same thing without putting trillions of dollars into upgrading the rail system across the country. This country is just too massive in size and not at all conducive to such a system.
  
  We can't afford that -- not now -- not ever.
• Writerbuckeye

  

  As for the video...using dollars EFFECTIVELY and creating healthy competition (charter schools, votures) and choice will make Ohio's schools better faster than simply dumping dollars into a system that is otherwise failing -- especially in cities like Columbus.
  
  If the dollars for school systems have to mostly come from local communities, you can bet there will be far more accountability in how and where those dollars are used, as opposed to just funneling millions of state dollars to the schools from Columbus.
  
  This effort to make the whole SB5 thing look like it goes against his views of education is an abject failure.
  
  No surprise there. All of the anti-SB5 stuff has been the same way.
• Gblock

  Writerbuckeye;719764 wrote:As for the video...using dollars EFFECTIVELY and creating healthy competition (charter schools, votures) and choice will make Ohio's schools better faster than simply dumping dollars into a system that is otherwise failing -- especially in cities like Columbus.
  
  If the dollars for school systems have to mostly come from local communities, you can bet there will be far more accountability in how and where those dollars are used, as opposed to just funneling millions of state dollars to the schools from Columbus.
  
  This effort to make the whole SB5 thing look like it goes against his views of education is an abject failure.
  
  No surprise there. All of the anti-SB5 stuff has been the same way.

  while i am not against charter schools as a concept. currently there isnt enough regulation and there are way too many charter schools in ohio specifically in columbus that are a straight up scam. every year there is at least one or two of them that shut down often without notice halfway through the year after making millions and send the kids back to ccs after recieving no education for the year and then they are counted with our scores after only being in our schools for a few weeks. kids tell stories of no books, no lunch, teachers who dont care what you do an just give everyone an A. Charter schools should be required to take the same OAA tests as well as the public schools. currently 1 in 5 charter schools are failing.
  
  
  evaluating some of the statistical studies that seek to compare charter vs. public school performance, recent investigations conducted by the Center for Research on Education Outcomes at Stanford University reveal that students' test scores may prove that public schools are now outperforming charter schools. As CREDO, a national organization devoted to charter school research reveals, the Stanford analysts compared reading and math state-based standardized test scores between charter school vs. public school students in 15 states, as well as scores in the District of Columbia. In fact, in further evaluating the data, experts found that 37 percent of charter schools posted improvements in math scores; however, these improvement rates were significantly below the improvement rates of students in the public school classrooms. Furthermore, 46 percent of charter schools experienced math improvements that were "statistically indistinguishable" from the average improvement rates shown by public school students.
  
  
  Ultimately, this data surmises that in the category of math alone, only 17 percent of charter schools have reported achievement rates that surpass public school performance results. Similarly, charter school students' reading scores improvement rates were also below their public school counterparts.
• redstreak one

  

  When schools are mainly funded by each community, poor urban and poor rural schools will take a hit! Piketon schools have right around 1500 students k-12. Nearly 30% of people living here live at or below the Federal poverty level. Piketon schools are an effective district according to past state test statistics. Piketon gets 10% of its school funding from local property taxes, 10% from Federal funds and 80% from state funding.
  
  There are 2 private schools who have k-12 classes. Pike Christian and Miracle City, they graduate about 6-10 kids each year. There are no charter schools within a 30 mile radius of us.
  
  If the state keeps slashing and putting the emphasis on the community funded us, how long before our district starts severely lagging behind your more affluent areas? Not long at all! Then the pain clinics, meth labs and copper thefts will start spreading like wildfire even more than they are already!
• teh awsum juan

  Gblock;719778 wrote:while i am not against charter schools as a concept. currently there isnt enough regulation and there are way too many charter schools in ohio specifically in columbus that are a straight up scam. every year there is at least one or two of them that shut down often without notice halfway through the year after making millions and send the kids back to ccs after recieving no education for the year and then they are counted with our scores after only being in our schools for a few weeks. kids tell stories of no books, no lunch, teachers who dont care what you do an just give everyone an A. Charter schools should be required to take the same OAA tests as well as the public schools. currently 1 in 5 charter schools are failing.
  
  
  evaluating some of the statistical studies that seek to compare charter vs. public school performance, recent investigations conducted by the Center for Research on Education Outcomes at Stanford University reveal that students' test scores may prove that public schools are now outperforming charter schools. As CREDO, a national organization devoted to charter school research reveals, the Stanford analysts compared reading and math state-based standardized test scores between charter school vs. public school students in 15 states, as well as scores in the District of Columbia. In fact, in further evaluating the data, experts found that 37 percent of charter schools posted improvements in math scores; however, these improvement rates were significantly below the improvement rates of students in the public school classrooms. Furthermore, 46 percent of charter schools experienced math improvements that were "statistically indistinguishable" from the average improvement rates shown by public school students.
  
  
  Ultimately, this data surmises that in the category of math alone, only 17 percent of charter schools have reported achievement rates that surpass public school performance results. Similarly, charter school students' reading scores improvement rates were also below their public school counterparts.

  
  for what it is worth - charter schools are public schools - they are subject to the same standardized tests as traditional public schools. also, when a student decides to leave a traditional public school and go to a charter school per pupil spending actually goes up in the school - the state funding that is set aside per student follows the student, but local tax dollars remain in the school.
  
  also, regarding test scores, any data can be manipulated to serve the particular viewpoint. most people i've talked to feel that the ohio achievement assessment doesn't tell the whole story - some people test well, some people don't. the state uses a value added assessment, essentially looking at how much a student gains on the test in a given year. in some cases, ohio charter schools outperform traditional public schools when you consider value added methods.
  
  and yes, in the beginning of the charter era in ohio there were lax standards, the legislature has worked to make schools more accountable - now they face a standard that perhaps we should enforce on traditional public schools - when the auditor looks at their books, if they are not in proper order they risk losing their state funding and charter.. essentially - if they aren't spending money appropriately and if they aren't able to show they are spending money appropriately, they will be shut down.
  
  furthermore - if the issue is education, why shouldn't we give families as many options as possible? I have hundreds of options of what toothpaste i want to use in the morning, but I only have one choice for how my student will be educated? that is ridiculous - children are all different, and a one size fits all approach to education is outdated - competition creates a better product and school choice shouldn't be an option that is afforded to only those who are able to pay for private school tuition.
• Gblock

  teh awsum juan;719832 wrote:for what it is worth - charter schools are public schools - they are subject to the same standardized tests as traditional public schools. also, when a student decides to leave a traditional public school and go to a charter school per pupil spending actually goes up in the school - the state funding that is set aside per student follows the student, but local tax dollars remain in the school.
  
  also, regarding test scores, any data can be manipulated to serve the particular viewpoint. most people i've talked to feel that the ohio achievement assessment doesn't tell the whole story - some people test well, some people don't. the state uses a value added assessment, essentially looking at how much a student gains on the test in a given year. in some cases, ohio charter schools outperform traditional public schools when you consider value added methods.
  
  and yes, in the beginning of the charter era in ohio there were lax standards, the legislature has worked to make schools more accountable - now they face a standard that perhaps we should enforce on traditional public schools - when the auditor looks at their books, if they are not in proper order they risk losing their state funding and charter.. essentially - if they aren't spending money appropriately and if they aren't able to show they are spending money appropriately, they will be shut down.
  
  furthermore - if the issue is education, why shouldn't we give families as many options as possible? I have hundreds of options of what toothpaste i want to use in the morning, but I only have one choice for how my student will be educated? that is ridiculous - children are all different, and a one size fits all approach to education is outdated - competition creates a better product and school choice shouldn't be an option that is afforded to only those who are able to pay for private school tuition.

  
  .http://www.publicschoolreview.com/state_charters/stateid/OH
  
  there are some amazing charter schools .....but many of the schools on this list are online schools that give you a computer, free internet and a diploma but not much else....there are some good ones but mostly diploma mills. i agree you should have choices, but the same group runs most of the charter schools currently and they have one goal...$$$$$$$
• teh awsum juan

  Gblock;719837 wrote:.http://www.publicschoolreview.com/state_charters/stateid/OH
  
  ...most of the schools on this list are online schools that give you a computer, free internet and a diploma but not much else....there are some good ones but mostly diploma mills. i agree you should have choices, but the same group runs most of the charter schools currently and they have one goal...$$$$$$$

  
  do you know how e-schooling works? the majority of students who go to virtual schools have dedicated online class time, with a teacher who has the same standards as a traditional brick and mortar school. students have to participate in classroom discussions. the teacher can tell when they're goofing off on the internet. and again, they have to take the same graduation test as the rest of ohio's public schools. there are some self directed courses - but then again, some people do better learning at their own pace.
  
  also i suggest you go here- http://www.ode.state.oh.us/GD/Templates/Pages/ODE/ODEDetail.aspx?page=3&TopicRelationID=1168&ContentID=9473&Content=102082
  
  you'll see that there are several different charter school sponsors, including several school districts. and there are only 28 virtual schools in the state - so, no most of the schools on the list are not online schools.
• Gblock

  88,000 charter school students
  
  24,000 virtual students
• derek bomar

  

  Gblock;719852 wrote:88,000 charter school students
  
  24,000 virtual students

  
  what's your point?
• Gblock

  yes i send some of our very troubled students there to schools like life skills and ecott...when they come back to visit me i ask them what its like and i have not had one student tell me they got less than a B. They also say they dont do much of anything. less than 1.5 hours a day of school. watch a few videos followed by a multiple choice test or something similar to that. they basically laugh and say what a joke it is.
• teh awsum juan

  not really sure what you're point is in identifying the number of students. you claimed many of the charter schools in the state are virtual schools when in fact there are only 28. you also claimed that they give you a computer and internet and no education when in fact they do - the students are taught by teachers with the same qualifications in regular schools, and they take the same achievement tests. in fact- for rural areas it might not be a bad alternative, you certainly would save money on overhead - no building or facility costs for poor districts to deal with.
• Gblock

  i was speaking of the ones in COLUMBUS
• derek bomar

  

  Gblock;719862 wrote:yes i send some of our very troubled students there to schools like life skills and ecott...when they come back to visit me i ask them what its like and i have not had one student tell me they got less than a B. They also say they dont do much of anything. less than 1.5 hours a day of school. watch a few videos followed by a multiple choice test or something similar to that. they basically laugh and say what a joke it is.

  
  again, I don't get your point above with the # of charter school students and virtual students
• teh awsum juan

  Gblock;719862 wrote:yes i send some of our very troubled students there to schools like life skills and ecott...when they come back to visit me i ask them what its like and i have not had one student tell me they got less than a B. They also say they dont do much of anything. less than 1.5 hours a day of school. watch a few videos followed by a multiple choice test or something similar to that. they basically laugh and say what a joke it is.

  
  why would you send your very troubled students to schools by your own opinion don't work?
• derek bomar

  

  Gblock;719864 wrote:i was speaking of the ones in COLUMBUS

  
  24/88 = .2727...how is that a majority? Or am I missing something
• Gblock

  it wasnt a point..just giving a figure. i previously didnt know what it was and then i looked it up....
• Gblock

  again in my first post i said specifically columbus....and most in our county are online learners
  
  those numbers i gave were for the whole state i believe. i dont know what the data would say for columbus, but my guess would be a majority for our county do online school. or lifeskills which although it is a school, it provides a very minimal education as the name suggests