posted by Ironman92

Detroit is a problem!

Aged like milk

Gee Dan, just because you can go for it on 4th down doesn’t mean you always should. 

Campbell really fucked this game up. Just awful.

posted by MontyBrunswick

Aged like milk

I mean problems get solved…or in this case the problem becomes the problem 

Campbell can cry in the postgame 

Chiefs: Kadarius Toney is hurt. He won’t be playing today.

Toney: they’re liars. I’m not hurt. 

Chiefs : 🙄 fine. You suck and we don’t want you playing so we were trying to be nice. There, happy? 

posted by justincredible

Campbell really fucked this game up. Just awful.

Strong disagree. But I seem to be in the minority on this. 

posted by Laley23

Strong disagree.  

I get the counter argument, as he obviously wasn't the one dropping passes or fumbling in his own territory, but some of his decisions just seemed suspect given the situation.

You have a chance to take the lead from 2 to 3 scores with a field goal, you kick the damn ball.

First one to end half, I can go either way. Either way is a fine decision. The benefits of going for it that far down the field is forcing the opposition to go 97/98/99 yards if you are stopped. That goes out the window when its the end of the half, so kicking and taking the points is a perfectly fine option. That isn't him forgetting his aggressive nature. It is him understanding one of the main factors in that risk is the nature of pinning the offense back, and without that benefit, the risk makes the reward much less desirable.

Badgley is a bad kicker. He probably shouldn't be on a team this good, but to ask him to kick a 46 yard FG on the road outdoors? He is 77% from 40-49 in his career -- and half those games he was on a dome team, and the other half in San Diego. It was 4th and 2, momentum completely in your favor, in plus territory. Go for that and the kill on the road every time. 77% is a very real number at this point in his career, coupled with probably a 60% conversion rate at 4th and 2 from there, and this isn't even a close decision. Factor in the Lions success this year at 4th and 2+ yards, and I don't really see the other side of this argument. 

The last one is the easiest decision of the 3. Kick it and you give yourself probably a 50-50 at best chance to tie. Badgley is still the same shitty kicker from that distance, and its even close to 50 yards where he is 5/13 on his career. So at best, we are looking at a tie game, and giving the ball back to an offense that is humming, with all the momentum, vs a defense who has already given up 20 points in the half. They were another 10 yards from me thinking they should kick it -- though I still wouldnt have hated going -- and 20 yards away from me saying they need to tie the game here. 

The only real thing I thought he did poorly and actively hurt the Lions chance of winning was running in the goal to go at the end of the game. IF you are going to design a run play, you have to have a 2nd play dialed up and immediately hurry to the line and try and snap it within 10 seconds of being tackled. Using a timeout ended the game, pending an onside recovery. That was abysmal coaching. Frankly, all run plays at that point should have been lit on fire. All plays needed to go into the endzone. If you wanted to have the option, they needed to burn the timeouts as the marched up the field, so they would've been scoring on the other side of the 2-minute warning, potentially significantly so. That would still allow for a 3 and out and getting the ball back should the onside be unsuccessful. I actually just went back and did the math. They could've saved almost an entire minute 19 + 17 + 16 seconds between the kickoff and score if they used timeouts on offense. You have to do that, or use none. Using one of them after that run was coaching malpractice and ended the game. 

posted by Laley23

First one to end half, I can go either way. Either way is a fine decision. The benefits of going for it that far down the field is forcing the opposition to go 97/98/99 yards if you are stopped. That goes out the window when its the end of the half, so kicking and taking the points is a perfectly fine option. That isn't him forgetting his aggressive nature. It is him understanding one of the main factors in that risk is the nature of pinning the offense back, and without that benefit, the risk makes the reward much less desirable.

Badgley is a bad kicker. He probably shouldn't be on a team this good, but to ask him to kick a 46 yard FG on the road outdoors? He is 77% from 40-49 in his career -- and half those games he was on a dome team, and the other half in San Diego. It was 4th and 2, momentum completely in your favor, in plus territory. Go for that and the kill on the road every time. 77% is a very real number at this point in his career, coupled with probably a 60% conversion rate at 4th and 2 from there, and this isn't even a close decision. Factor in the Lions success this year at 4th and 2+ yards, and I don't really see the other side of this argument. 

The last one is the easiest decision of the 3. Kick it and you give yourself probably a 50-50 at best chance to tie. Badgley is still the same shitty kicker from that distance, and its even close to 50 yards where he is 5/13 on his career. So at best, we are looking at a tie game, and giving the ball back to an offense that is humming, with all the momentum, vs a defense who has already given up 20 points in the half. They were another 10 yards from me thinking they should kick it -- though I still wouldnt have hated going -- and 20 yards away from me saying they need to tie the game here. 

The only real thing I thought he did poorly and actively hurt the Lions chance of winning was running in the goal to go at the end of the game. IF you are going to design a run play, you have to have a 2nd play dialed up and immediately hurry to the line and try and snap it within 10 seconds of being tackled. Using a timeout ended the game, pending an onside recovery. That was abysmal coaching. Frankly, all run plays at that point should have been lit on fire. All plays needed to go into the endzone. If you wanted to have the option, they needed to burn the timeouts as the marched up the field, so they would've been scoring on the other side of the 2-minute warning, potentially significantly so. That would still allow for a 3 and out and getting the ball back should the onside be unsuccessful. I actually just went back and did the math. They could've saved almost an entire minute 19 + 17 + 16 seconds between the kickoff and score if they used timeouts on offense. You have to do that, or use none. Using one of them after that run was coaching malpractice and ended the game. 

I knew you’d be on his side for this and I do appreciate the lengthy detailed reason for each scenario. I believe your initial thought answers this question but I will ask as I may have some counters here.

In the Dallas game during the regular season….once the refs messed up and then it became 4th and 7 for the 2 point conversion…..would you have went for it there or tried XP to tie and defense hold?

I would have kicked. 100% go at the 2, better chance at the win. 100% kick at the 7, cause the risk of losing goes wayyyy up. 

posted by Laley23

I would have kicked. 100% go at the 2, better chance at the win. 100% kick at the 7, cause the risk of losing goes wayyyy up. 

Ok…so point 1

Campbell never hesitated and went for 2 there ridiculously sticking to his guns in a game where the offenses weren’t dominating or even doing well.

Before the half last night Campbell had the steam rolling between his ears in contemplating to kick FG or go for it…..yes he realized the correct play but it felt automatic due to your reasoning above and he struggled mightily.

I’m not convinced he’s on top of the best decisions and why….and the contemplating before half really was a red flag IMO.

No question. I don’t think any coach is all over it. They have people in their ears and making decisions on the fly in real time. 

I was just saying, if the 3 debates ones yesterday, I think he went 3/3.

posted by Laley23

No question. I don’t think any coach is all over it. They have people in their ears and making decisions on the fly in real time. 

I was just saying, if the 3 debates ones yesterday, I think he went 3/3.

I have more tomorrow 

Laley….so

Here are my thoughts on the not kicking the FG mid 3rd qtr

I would’ve attempted the FG in hopes of regaining the lead from half and keeping the momentum basically in the middle. ESPN showed the analytics (these numbers are super close but maybe not what they posted) kicking a FG 90.5 win %……going for it on 4th and 2 91.3 win %.  By attempting the kick in also doing a couple other things. If Badgley makes that FG, it gives him the kicker confidence, an on field rep and confidence to me if he is needed to do it again in this huge game…..IF he misses, he’s not getting anymore chances unless dire case scenario (FG to win it, send OT)…..no attempt, no rep, no confidence.

I also believe the defense making a stop on 4th and 2…..boosts the defense marginally more than a missed FG.

The numbers for win % are basically the same….I felt kicking the FG takes the 49ers back to where they were but with 8 less minutes to do it.

It’s also near the end….it’s about execution but the more a team does 4th and 2, the more that play has been seen. I definitely would’ve used a better play there if you must go for it.

I’ll blame Campbell and staff for allowing it to fall apart after it failed. 2 crucial dropped passes, bad fumble, crazy missed interception. I think after the missed 4th down each position coach/Campbell needed to refocus everyone to pick him up….to get this momentum back. Make the catches, secure the ball….if a big play comes about, make it. Do this to ensure we win this game. The unnecessary trickle down of terrible happenings after that 4th and 2, lost 27 points before they regained anything late…..I blame Campbell and staff there.

SF was maybe always going to make a run and maybe the Lions collapse was inevitable either way….I believe the kicking the FG there was the way to go, but we’ll never know.

He drills that one…..I’m letting him drill the 50 yarder to take the lead late. He misses….I’m going for the 4th downs with Dan

I just simply don’t think people are realizing how bad Badgley is. There is a very real reason he hasn’t been a staple for anyone, basically out of the league multiple times if not for injuries to starters. He was Detroit's THIRD CHOICE this season, and that’s after they had him on the team last year for a bit. The internal confidence is obvious broken with him thru the entire league.

I mentioned his stats before. Went a bit deeper. He is 8/16 outdoors. 

Again, the issue is with the GM for having him on the roster. But the coach can’t control that. He can control not letting him kick in conditions that are detrimental to the team — so he did that. 

posted by Laley23

I just simply don’t think people are realizing how bad Badgley is. There is a very real reason he hasn’t been a staple for anyone, basically out of the league multiple times if not for injuries to starters. He was Detroit's THIRD CHOICE this season, and that’s after they had him on the team last year for a bit. The internal confidence is obvious broken with him thru the entire league.

I mentioned his stats before. Went a bit deeper. He is 8/16 outdoors. 

Again, the issue is with the GM for having him on the roster. But the coach can’t control that. He can control not letting him kick in conditions that are detrimental to the team — so he did that. 

Halfway thru 3rd qtr against the Rams the Lions were clear down to the Rams 29, bad play call back to 34, sack back to 40, short pass for about 3 yards. Badgley makes an outdoor 54 yard FG (the longest of the postseason so far) to give Lions 24-17 lead

Lions win 24-23…..are the Lions advancing beyond the wildcard round if Badgley misses?

posted by Ironman92

Halfway thru 3rd qtr against the Rams the Lions were clear down to the Rams 29, bad play call back to 34, sack back to 40, short pass for about 3 yards. Badgley makes an outdoor 54 yard FG (the longest of the postseason so far) to give Lions 24-17 lead

Lions win 24-23…..are the Lions advancing beyond the wildcard round if Badgley misses?

Law of regression, he was due to miss the next lol

posted by Ironman92

Halfway thru 3rd qtr against the Rams the Lions were clear down to the Rams 29, bad play call back to 34, sack back to 40, short pass for about 3 yards. Badgley makes an outdoor 54 yard FG (the longest of the postseason so far) to give Lions 24-17 lead

Lions win 24-23…..are the Lions advancing beyond the wildcard round if Badgley misses?

Definitely was a great kick

So good

https://x.com/dwf57/status/1752446155806396535?s=46&t=C2WPcF6lbnPsYusDnwucFQ

Pat Mahomes Sr. arrested in Texas for DWI last night. Minus Patrick that whole family fucking sucks. 

posted by friendfromlowry

Pat Mahomes Sr. arrested in Texas for DWI last night. Minus Patrick that whole family fucking sucks. 

Man he looks like a drunk and/or crack addict

posted by Ironman92

Man he looks like a drunk and/or crack addict

Looks like or is one