OHSAA "Competitive Balance" initiative fails
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redstreak one
So your comparing a school that has a large boundary such as Canfield 620 boys, and Boardman 380 boys being closed enrollment to Ursuline 160 boys and Mooney 260? If you took the size of Canfields boundary and placed the center of it over either of those two private schools they would be as big if not bigger than either of the other two public schools.
Private schools can block 100% of any student it wants whether they live 20 miles away or right across the street from the actual school and your arguing that since those two publics can block open enrollment it is the same? Come on man!
I could move my family right across the street from a private school and STILL have to meet the admittance guidelines set up by that school. Its called PRIVATE for a reason! lol -
sherm03
And as I've said on here before...the only private schools that have admissions standards are the large private schools. Mooney, Ursuline, and smaller school need as many students as possible to stay open. Students do not have to take a test to determine if they can enroll at the school.redstreak one;1179439 wrote:So your comparing a school that has a large boundary such as Canfield 620 boys, and Boardman 380 boys being closed enrollment to Ursuline 160 boys and Mooney 260? If you took the size of Canfields boundary and placed the center of it over either of those two private schools they would be as big if not bigger than either of the other two public schools.
Private schools can block 100% of any student it wants whether they live 20 miles away or right across the street from the actual school and your arguing that since those two publics can block open enrollment it is the same? Come on man!
I could move my family right across the street from a private school and STILL have to meet the admittance guidelines set up by that school. Its called PRIVATE for a reason! lol -
redstreak one
http://www.ursuline.com/prospective-families-admissions-process.aspx
From a Catholic grade school must meet the following to High School at Ursuline:- Satisfactory performance on the placement exam (Explore),
- Completion of the admission forms, and
- Average or better achievement in their eighth grade course of study
- Satisfactory performance on the placement exam (Explore),
- Completion of the admission forms,
- Average or better achievement in their eighth grade course of study, and
- Satisfactory Disciplinary & Attendance Records
- Completion of the admissions forms,
- Satisfactory High School Transcript,
- Satisfactory Disciplinary & Attendance Records, and
- An interview with the Associate Principal
http://www.cardinalmooney.com/?page_id=189
All eighth graders planning to apply to Cardinal Mooney High School must take the ACT Explore High School Placement Test.
Looks like pretty strict entrance standards when compared to a Public schools requirements which are; 1. living in district, 2. under 19, or 23 years of age if on an IEP, 3. not currently serving an expulsion at previous school~! lol -
Mooney44Cards
It's a placement test. It's purpose is to place a student in an appropriate class for a particular subject. It is not an admission test, nor does it say that a certain score is required.redstreak one;1179584 wrote:Mooneys standards:
http://www.cardinalmooney.com/?page_id=189
All eighth graders planning to apply to Cardinal Mooney High School must take the ACT Explore High School Placement Test. -
sherm03
This.Mooney44Cards;1179600 wrote:It's a placement test. It's purpose is to place a student in an appropriate class for a particular subject. It is not an admission test, nor does it say that a certain score is required.
Placement test =/= Admission test -
Mooney44Cards
The funny thing is, the whole "private schools can deny admission to any student" argument is hypothetical at best. I have yet to hear of any student being denied admission to any Catholic schools. And while I'm sure there are examples of it here or there, it is nowhere near the institutional-level that people make it out to be.
I mean if you're argument is that a Catholic school is at an advantage because they CAN do something that they rarely if ever do, then its not a very strong or solid argument. -
Old Rider
Many of the questions on this placement test read as such...- Whats your 40 yrd dash time?
- How much can you bench?
- What position do you play?
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sherm03
None of those questions were on my placement test that I took.Old Rider;1179634 wrote:Many of the questions on this placement test read as such...- Whats your 40 yrd dash time?
- How much can you bench?
- What position do you play?
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Old Rider
Thats because they gave you the band placement test...not the football one!sherm03;1179759 wrote:None of those questions were on my placement test that I took. -
sherm03
I was never in the band.Old Rider;1179842 wrote:Thats because they gave you the band placement test...not the football one! -
redstreak one
Mooney44Cards;1179632 wrote:The funny thing is, the whole "private schools can deny admission to any student" argument is hypothetical at best. I have yet to hear of any student being denied admission to any Catholic schools. And while I'm sure there are examples of it here or there, it is nowhere near the institutional-level that people make it out to be.
I mean if you're argument is that a Catholic school is at an advantage because they CAN do something that they rarely if ever do, then its not a very strong or solid argument.
Youngstown East and Chaney high schools were on Academic Emergency on the State Report card last year, East moved to Academic Watch. Because of that status every student at those two schools could have taken a voucher and went to another school. Ursuline and Mooney are about 3 miles or less from those two schools. Their academics are top notch and they send plenty of kids onto college and other areas of higher learning.
It might be hypothetical, but why wouldnt every kid at East and Chaney run to those two schools with voucher in hand and apply? Why does Ursuline sit with 159 boys in grades 9-11? Why does Mooney only have 260 boys same grades. East has around 700 plus boys in the same grades? Ursuline is the only private school I found that put on their website that you MUST have "Average or better achievement in their eighth grade course of study, and Satisfactory Disciplinary & Attendance Records!"
They might be the only to put it on their website, but my gut says they arent the only ones to enforce the idea of MUST have good marks in academics, attendance and no to little disciplinary problems. Do I have to remind you that publics cannot do it?
Yet, it is just hypothetical why their numbers stay low. They dont do it intentionally, but their standards of operation are higher, heck thats why its appealing to parents, a safe, tough learning environment. Does that sound like East high school to you? LOL
Unfortunately it is something you cannot put a direct number on, thats why the committee tried with the socio economic factor. Historically, students on assistance usually dont move to better districts to better themselves, and once again I said usually not always! -
sherm03
Its tough to type out a full response to this on my phone. So I withhold commenting back until I get to a computer later.redstreak one;1180428 wrote:Youngstown East and Chaney high schools were on Academic Emergency on the State Report card last year, East moved to Academic Watch. Because of that status every student at those two schools could have taken a voucher and went to another school. Ursuline and Mooney are about 3 miles or less from those two schools. Their academics are top notch and they send plenty of kids onto college and other areas of higher learning.
It might be hypothetical, but why wouldnt every kid at East and Chaney run to those two schools with voucher in hand and apply? Why does Ursuline sit with 159 boys in grades 9-11? Why does Mooney only have 260 boys same grades. East has around 700 plus boys in the same grades? Ursuline is the only private school I found that put on their website that you MUST have "Average or better achievement in their eighth grade course of study, and Satisfactory Disciplinary & Attendance Records!"
They might be the only to put it on their website, but my gut says they arent the only ones to enforce the idea of MUST have good marks in academics, attendance and no to little disciplinary problems. Do I have to remind you that publics cannot do it?
Yet, it is just hypothetical why their numbers stay low. They dont do it intentionally, but their standards of operation are higher, heck thats why its appealing to parents, a safe, tough learning environment. Does that sound like East high school to you? LOL
Unfortunately it is something you cannot put a direct number on, thats why the committee tried with the socio economic factor. Historically, students on assistance usually dont move to better districts to better themselves, and once again I said usually not always!
But until then, East only has 368 boys...not 700 plus. -
redstreak one
Is this not the East high school in Youngstown?
East I.D. #483 Northeast Dist. Mahoning County 474 Bennington Ave Youngstown, 44505-3508 E-mail: [email protected] Principal Holly Seimetz School FAX Number (330) 742-6464 Superintendent Connie Hathorn - Athletic Department Phone Athletic Department FAX 3307426464 Athletic Trainer Colors Light Blue / Black / Silver Nickname Panthers Primary Conference/League Youngstown City Series Web Site www.youngstown.k12.oh.us/schools/east/east.html Track & Field/Cross Country Uniform Numbers 701-799 Boys Class AA (735) Girls Class AA (780) -
redstreak one
According to Joe Eitels website they play in D I in Region 1, so they must have a few kids! lol Privates block enrollment unintentionally with tuition and strict guidelines. You cant put a number on it. I am done arguing with those that arent even willing to try to understand this. They have an advantage, heck just look at Newark and Newark Catholic. D I versus D VI, struggles in D I, has won multiple state championships in D VI. Same kids drinking the same water from the same area, yet 1 small school has great success, the larger public struggles. Come on guys, I am not trying to villify privates, just trying to show how they have an advantage that it wouldnt hurt to look at to try and level. The tradition factor is a joke, but something out there has to help. If not, go back to 1 division!
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Mooney44Cards
Your point is based on your assumptions. (Come ON, there's NO WAY that every kid wouldn't run to Mooney/Ursuline) And you want me to concede the point because that's what you think is going on, without ANY proof?redstreak one;1180530 wrote:According to Joe Eitels website they play in D I in Region 1, so they must have a few kids! lol Privates block enrollment unintentionally with tuition and strict guidelines. You cant put a number on it. I am done arguing with those that arent even willing to try to understand this. They have an advantage, heck just look at Newark and Newark Catholic. D I versus D VI, struggles in D I, has won multiple state championships in D VI. Same kids drinking the same water from the same area, yet 1 small school has great success, the larger public struggles. Come on guys, I am not trying to villify privates, just trying to show how they have an advantage that it wouldnt hurt to look at to try and level. The tradition factor is a joke, but something out there has to help. If not, go back to 1 division!
And then you totally dismiss tradition as having anything to do with it, yet you want us to consider your point. -
sherm03
From the OHSAA website:redstreak one;1180525 wrote:Is this not the East high school in Youngstown?
East I.D. #483 Northeast Dist. Mahoning County 474 Bennington Ave Youngstown, 44505-3508 E-mail: [email protected] Principal Holly Seimetz School FAX Number (330) 742-6464 Superintendent Connie Hathorn - Athletic Department Phone Athletic Department FAX 3307426464 Athletic Trainer Colors Light Blue / Black / Silver Nickname Panthers Primary Conference/League Youngstown City Series Web Site www.youngstown.k12.oh.us/schools/east/east.html Track & Field/Cross Country Uniform Numbers 701-799 Boys Class AA (735) Girls Class AA (780)
The numbers are probably higher because the East team takes kids from East High School AND Chaney High School. So the reason why they play D1 is because it's two different schools of about 360 kids combined to form one team.483 EAST Youngstown NORTHEAST 368 AA 387 AAA -
redstreak one
Mooney44Cards;1180642 wrote:Your point is based on your assumptions. (Come ON, there's NO WAY that every kid wouldn't run to Mooney/Ursuline) And you want me to concede the point because that's what you think is going on, without ANY proof?
And then you totally dismiss tradition as having anything to do with it, yet you want us to consider your point.
You cant prove it, thats the problem. It isnt something tangible you can wrap your hand around, its common sense to understand that if you CHARGE for something, a segment of the population wont be able to budget it into their monthly funds! The only way to track it would be for every parent in the state of Ohio to enroll their child into a private school and the percentage turned down would be it! lol Just the thought of jumping through hoops, filling out paperwork, having to pay to fill out paperwork, paying for tuition or working or filling out paperwork for a scholarship is more than they want to do.
Tradition has something to do with it, but I dont believe you should punish a team for being successful. I still believe you should take the average square miles for every school district in Ohio, and any school without uses that average and it is placed around their school and however many kids fall into that radius is your division.
And by the way, I love Ursulines benign system of using the words average and satisfactory. Wow, that is completely open ended and could be swayed one way or another.
Sherm, so Chaney not having sports the Ohsaa allows them to play for East but say 60 athletes comes to East to play but 300+ numbers follows them for their division classification! Yeah, sounds right. LOL -
rmolin73
That's because it is right.redstreak one;1181621 wrote:You cant prove it, thats the problem. It isnt something tangible you can wrap your hand around, its common sense to understand that if you CHARGE for something, a segment of the population wont be able to budget it into their monthly funds! The only way to track it would be for every parent in the state of Ohio to enroll their child into a private school and the percentage turned down would be it! lol Just the thought of jumping through hoops, filling out paperwork, having to pay to fill out paperwork, paying for tuition or working or filling out paperwork for a scholarship is more than they want to do.
Tradition has something to do with it, but I dont believe you should punish a team for being successful. I still believe you should take the average square miles for every school district in Ohio, and any school without uses that average and it is placed around their school and however many kids fall into that radius is your division.
And by the way, I love Ursulines benign system of using the words average and satisfactory. Wow, that is completely open ended and could be swayed one way or another.
Sherm, so Chaney not having sports the Ohsaa allows them to play for East but say 60 athletes comes to East to play but 300+ numbers follows them for their division classification! Yeah, sounds right. LOL -
redstreak one
^^^^^^ Everything I said is right, thanks! lol
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rmolin73
Haha no. East and Chaney have combined athletics. If everything you said was right you would know this.redstreak one;1181745 wrote:^^^^^^ Everything I said is right, thanks! lol -
Al Bundy
If there are 300+ kids in the school to choose from for sports, why shouldn't they all count? For athletic purposes, the Youngstown City Schools are treated as one school with two campuses. Under this model, you have to count all of the kids that they have.redstreak one;1181621 wrote:
Sherm, so Chaney not having sports the Ohsaa allows them to play for East but say 60 athletes comes to East to play but 300+ numbers follows them for their division classification! Yeah, sounds right. LOL
On a side note, it is sad that Chaney no longer has football. They have a great tradition. -
Sykotyk
redstreak one, in the PIAA co-op teams are very common. And by forming a co-op, all the students from the two co-op schools get counted together. Whether they participate in sports or not doesn't matter. That's their available pool of athletes, so they all get counted.
The school I went to had a sports-sharing agreement with several sports. My HS had the football team, while the other school had soccer, baseball, and softball. What was funny was in Basketball, Track, Cross Country, Volleyball, etc when the two schools would play against each other.
Unlike the northern midwest that uses a co-op 'name', the schools in PA that do co-ops simply choose one school's name that is hosting the sport to go by. -
redstreak one
Lets not get off track here guys, the co op thing is a just tangent.
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rmolin73
Once proven wrong you want to change the subject lol.redstreak one;1182339 wrote:Lets not get off track here guys, the co op thing is a just tangent. -
redstreak one
^^^^Really, that isnt how things are done around here. To be right on here you just have to share an opinion with the majority! lol It was just my opinion that East shouldnt be penalized for having to share, so if I am wrong in your opinion, no problem. I belive I have made multiple good points about the advantages privates have.