New League for Wooster, Orrville, West Holmes?

• riders1

  

  Driving miles to some of the mentioned schools from Orrville High School
  
  Mansfield Senior 46 miles
  Clear Fork 49 Miles
  Lexington 53 miles ( longest distance for OHS in the OCC)
  Claymont 42 miles
  Ontario 50 miles
  Shelby 55 miles
  Galion 60 miles
  
  Claymont , Dover , New Philadelphia , Barberton , Cloverleaf , CCC , Northwest , Canton South would all be closer than Mansfield. Lexington , and Clear Fork, with Madison about the same as Claymont for distance, with Stark county and most Summit county schools probably all closer than the Mansfield area.
  Thankfully we are no longer in with Marion and Vermilion, those were long trips.
• Red Right 21

  

  THE4RINGZ;1081328 wrote:That is a good point. However, the football program should make the athletic department money or at least cover their own costs. Yes, even at Wooster this should happen. Added to that is the pay to play and I can't see how travelling to far away games actually "costs" the school money,again talking just football and boys basketball here. All the other sports struggle to break even or lose the school money, but you have to provide an opportunity for the kids to play the sports.

  You have to remember that the band would go to away games and you need to figure 10 buses plus 10 drivers and the gas! Now that is more than most schools entire budget!!! lol
• THE4RINGZ

  

  scarface1;1081375 wrote:according to the schedule the team does go to pickerington this year for lacrosse, has that been cancled?

  
  Perhaps I saw a different schedule than you.
• THE4RINGZ

  

  Red Right 21;1081443 wrote:You have to remember that the band would go to away games and you need to figure 10 buses plus 10 drivers and the gas! Now that is more than most schools entire budget!!! lol

  
  I wasn't including the band other than for attendance at home games adding revenue. The bands travel expenses are not part of the football budget.
• Red Rum

  

  RedRider1;1080573 wrote:There's no way to defend Orrville without sounding full of arrogance.....
  
  I'll give you Norwayne because it happened...and maybe the best Smithville team over the last decade could hang...but not Waynedale or Dalton. Sorry.
  
  Norwayne's basketball team beat Orrville in 1994....and that team was one of their best ever.
  
  That's the point...it's those once a decade, or once a generation teams (Norwayne football 2011) that can hang with Orrville. No question about it. But not year in and year out.
  
  Flame away.....

  I agree that it's hard to defend Orrville without sounding arrogant. I also agree Orrville would be pretty dominant at a few sports in the WCAL.
  
  What I'd like to point out is the future.
  
  20 years ago, the gap between Orrville and the WCAL was huge.
  10 years ago, the gap was still big, but not as much.
  Last Year, Orrville was beaten in football and basketball by WCAL teams.
  10 years from now, what will the picture look like?
  
  The one constant is change and things are changing. The WCAL is gaining.
  
  That being said, the climate still isn't right for a 10 team WCAL with Orrville & Triway.
  I know the Orr faithful hate it, but considering the future climate of economics and competition. The WCAL may be your fate....in the future.
  
  That is, if you can hang
• THE4RINGZ

  

  Red Rum;1081472 wrote:I agree that it's hard to defend Orrville without sounding arrogant. I also agree Orrville would be pretty dominant at a few sports in the WCAL.
  
  What I'd like to point out is the future.
  
  20 years ago, the gap between Orrville and the WCAL was huge.
  10 years ago, the gap was still big, but not as much.
  Last Year, Orrville was beaten in football and basketball by WCAL teams.
  10 years from now, what will the picture look like?
  
  The one constant is change and things are changing. The WCAL is gaining.
  
  That being said, the climate still isn't right for a 10 team WCAL with Orrville & Triway.
  I know the Orr faithful hate it, but considering the future climate of economics and competition. The WCAL may be your fate....in the future.
  
  That is, if you can hang

  
  Red Rum is running on the platform of change we can believe in.
• Red Right 21

  

  THE4RINGZ;1081465 wrote:I wasn't including the band other than for attendance at home games adding revenue. The bands travel expenses are not part of the football budget.

  Lighten up! It was a dig at where the focus is at Wooster!
• 1_beast

  

  Redrider1....dont forget the 2003 Bears were in the same region as Orrville and was playing a week later that year....its not as uneven as you may want to believe. There seems to be at least a Team every year this decade that would of been able to hang.
  
  But...whatever...i really dont care, join the MAC if you want...you would just beat on them too...:rolleyes:
• RedRider1

  

  Beast,
  So 1 Waynedale team 8 years ago could've hung. OK.
  
  since that '03 playoff year for the Bears..Orrville has made 6 more playoff appearances and have played a total of 17 playoff games from 2004-11.
  
  But that one team in '03...they could've hung. Yessir.
  
  Red Rum,
  You make a good point about the gap being smaller than it was 25 years ago. But anyone that saw Rittman & Chippewa this year knows that there is still a gap.
• THE4RINGZ

  

  The gap may be closing due in part to the growth in students at the WCAL schools. Chippewa used to be the only D4 school in the league, but both Northwestern and Norwayne were bumped ot D4 this season. I see that trend continuing as the county schools seem to have a better fiscal management system inplace than some other schiils in the area. So an increase in the student population has helped close the gap. However, the gap remains. And to continually use both Rittman and Chippewa as examples isn't really an argument at all. Sure the two bottom feeder teams in any league would be no match for bigger schools in a more cometitve league.
  
  I am still convinced that all WCAL schools ride waves of talent. The league hasn't developed one or two consistent powerhouse, Smithville is probably the best excample of consistentcy, but the catalyst of that is now gone. I have said it one hundred times if not more, the WCAL is not good enough top to bottom to attract larger teams with a more successful track record (not that the league is looking to expand).
  
  At any rate, Orrville WILL NOT join the WCAL so the discussion is moot (not mute, you are welcome BRF). The whole discussion reminds me of an old Harry Anderson line, "if a chicken and a half lays an egg and a half in a day and a hlaf, how long does it take a monkey with a wooden leg to kick all the seeds out of a dill pickle?" The answer just doesn't matter.
• Red Rum

  

  THE4RINGZ;1081609 wrote: how long does it take a monkey with a wooden leg to kick all the seeds out of a dill pickle?"

  After I tasered him a few times, it took about 4 minutes.
• Flash

  

  I agree with Ringz it isn't going to happen. They don't want us and we don't want to come. WCAL teams can beat us. Smithville in cross country, Waynedale and Northwestern in wrestling. Norwayne last year in football. Even in our best years Northwestern beat us in basketball ( although I think Smitty let them to knock us down a peg and to tell us we weren't as good as we thought). Trust me, we won't join the WCAL, but as they've got better we've known enough to schedule them. Know thy enemy. Were in the same division as them and it helps to know their style of play. We don't want to play in a league where we will kick the snot out of 4 of the 8 teams. We'd rather lose 5 out of the 8 and be a contender in the play offs. Its the way it is. Call us whatever, its the attitude we have and I don't see it changing unless we go on a long losing streak.
• Old Rider

  

  Red Rum;1081472 wrote:I agree that it's hard to defend Orrville without sounding arrogant. I also agree Orrville would be pretty dominant at a few sports in the WCAL.
  
  What I'd like to point out is the future.
  
  20 years ago, the gap between Orrville and the WCAL was huge.
  10 years ago, the gap was still big, but not as much.
  Last Year, Orrville was beaten in football and basketball by WCAL teams.
  10 years from now, what will the picture look like?
  
  The one constant is change and things are changing. The WCAL is gaining.
  
  That being said, the climate still isn't right for a 10 team WCAL with Orrville & Triway.
  I know the Orr faithful hate it, but considering the future climate of economics and competition. The WCAL may be your fate....in the future.
  
  That is, if you can hang

  WCAL teams have beaten Orrville in basketball many times in the past. Just in the three years I played (basketball) at Orrville (92-93, 93-94, 94-95 seasons), we lost to Norwayne in 93 District title and to Northwestern in 94. We also beat a very good Rittman team in the district finals in the 92-93 season.
  
  Waynedale had a really good team with Rick Mast in the early 90's that we struggled to beat. WCAL teams have always played us well because they feel they have a point to prove and the teams today are doing the same. It just gets multiplied 100x's when it is a tournement game and the WCAL knock off the "mighty" Red Riders.
  
  We get the best punch from most every team we play because of the whole "Orrville Brand" that we have created. I get it!
  
  As far as a "gap"...I don't think there has ever been a gap we just didn't play each other as much as we are now. And now that we are playing more, the WCAL is proving they can play with us. For many years, it was enrollment or the way the state aligned the regions that kept us from playing each other. Now we are playing in the regular season and when the WCAL sees the Riders on their schedule, they circle that game instantly and call it a "game where we will find out how good we are".
  
  Orrville fans see the WCAL team on the schedule and know the we are going to get that teams "Super Bowl" effort because thats how much it means to the WCAL to beat Orrville.
• Mr Miyagi

  

  Old Rider;1081899 wrote: WCAL sees the Riders on their schedule, they circle that game instantly and call it a "game where we will find out how good we are".
  
  Orrville fans see the WCAL team on the schedule and know the we are going to get that teams "Super Bowl" effort because thats how much it means to the WCAL to beat Orrville.

  basketball, baseball, wrestling, we aren't circling any dates on the calendar when we play you guys.......football yes, because the games are so rare to happen and we want to keep our streak or "tradition" alive but Miyagi thinks that you guys have the same dates circled on your own calendar and to think we are giving it our "Super Bowl" effort because we are playing the Riders and you guys are not giving your greatest effort when you play us makes Miyagi chuckle.....Miyagi also thinks that maybe us here on this forum have a lot more dates circled so that we can boast to our rivals......Congrats Old Rider you gave Miyagi his first LOL of the day.
• Old Rider

  

  Mr Miyagi;1082113 wrote:basketball, baseball, wrestling, we aren't circling any dates on the calendar when we play you guys.......football yes, because the games are so rare to happen and we want to keep our streak or "tradition" alive but Miyagi thinks that you guys have the same dates circled on your own calendar and to think we are giving it our "Super Bowl" effort because we are playing the Riders and you guys are not giving your greatest effort when you play us makes Miyagi chuckle.....Miyagi also thinks that maybe us here on this forum have a lot more dates circled so that we can boast to our rivals......Congrats Old Rider you gave Miyagi his first LOL of the day.

  Were not circling Norwayne, Northwestern, Rittman and the likes anytime soon...Thank you Slant eyes for my first LOL of the day!
• 1_beast

  

  Old Rider;1082129 wrote:Were not circling Norwayne, Northwestern, Rittman and the likes anytime soon...Thank you Slant eyes for my first LOL of the day!

  
  *​ We're
• Mr Miyagi

  

  Old Rider;1082129 wrote:Were not circling Norwayne, Northwestern, Rittman and the likes anytime soon...Thank you Slant eyes for my first LOL of the day!

  Maybe you should have circled Norwayne in football this year and you could have made it 1 game further....2 LOL's in 1 day, keep em comin
• Old Rider

  

  Mr Miyagi;1082198 wrote:Maybe you should have circled Norwayne in football this year and you could have made it 1 game further....2 LOL's in 1 day, keep em comin

  Just proved my point...once in a "generation" team to beat an 8 win Orrville team...congrats!
• 1_beast

  

  Old Rider;1082209 wrote:Just proved my point...once in a "generation" team to beat an 8 win Orrville team...congrats!

  
  
  The "poor me" 8 win team....SMH, you play the rugged, toughest sschedule in the state to prepare for that type of game. Now you are using the 8 win team "slant". Good stuff.
• Old Rider

  

  1_beast;1082243 wrote:The "poor me" 8 win team....SMH, you play the rugged, toughest sschedule in the state to prepare for that type of game. Now you are using the 8 win team "slant". Good stuff.

  *schedule
  
  I'm just trying to justify our loss to something other than getting beat by a better team. Makes me feel better..
• 1_beast

  

  I'm just busting your crack. It's so easy to get the Orrville faithful fired up.
  
  
  Helping in Apple Creek
  
  
  Edit: You didn't fix a mistake I made.... I was typing with a stutter.
• Dr. KnOiTaLL

  

  Norwayne obviously controlled the game against Orrville. A great majority of us were there and witnessed it. I agree, Orrville will never join the WCAL, not because they ARE on a different level, but because they THINK they are on a different level. However, that confidence has allowed Orrville to get into the playoffs numerous times over the last decade because they are confident that is where they belong. That's how winning programs conduct themselves. They don't "think" they are better, in their minds, they KNOW they are better. Therefore, excellence is expected. THAT confidence, in my opinion, is the greatest difference between Orrville and the teams in the WCAL. However, I do think some teams have gone through stretches like that (i.e. Smithville during its stretch of 6 consecutive league titles in the late 90's early 2000's and Norwayne may be building something similar to that now).
• Old Rider

  

  Dr. KnOiTaLL;1082324 wrote:Norwayne obviously controlled the game against Orrville. A great majority of us were there and witnessed it. I agree, Orrville will never join the WCAL, not because they ARE on a different level, but because they THINK they are on a different level. However, that confidence has allowed Orrville to get into the playoffs numerous times over the last decade because they are confident that is where they belong. That's how winning programs conduct themselves. They don't "think" they are better, in their minds, they KNOW they are better. Therefore, excellence is expected. THAT confidence, in my opinion, is the greatest difference between Orrville and the teams in the WCAL. However, I do think some teams have gone through stretches like that (i.e. Smithville during its stretch of 6 consecutive league titles in the late 90's early 2000's and Norwayne may be building something similar to that now).

  Great post! A WCAL fan making sense of this whole thing.
• RedRider1

  

  We've also been blessed with superior athletes to go along with that "swagger."
  
  You can "think" you're the better team all you want...but you have to back it up. We've backed it up to the tune of 3 state basketball titles, a football title, a volleyball title and a track title in the last 20 years. That's not even counting track or wrestling individual titles.
  
  Hiland is the only other area team that can claim 6 state titles (4 in girls hoops, 2 in boys) in that same stretch.
  
  The WCAL has 8 team state titles in the last 20 years.....7 of them in softball.
• Old Rider

  

  ..and not too mention multiple regional titles and appearances in boys basketball and football!