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Monta Ellis claims to be 2nd best player in NBA

  • Hb31187
    25 a game for a stretch, and 25 a game for a season are 2 totally different things
  • trep14
    Hb31187 wrote: 25 a game for a stretch, and 25 a game for a season are 2 totally different things
    Well, Blatche really hasn't shown signs of slowing down since the Wiz shipped everyone off, so I'm not sure I'd call it "for a stretch" at this point. The fact of the matter is the NBA is littered with guys like Monta Ellis, Kevin Martin, Ben Gordon etc. who score a ton of points for bad teams but don't seem to get "it" and are incapable of elevating the play of others around them. Sure Monta would have a few suitors if he hit free agency, but he looks like a guy who is going to suck a lot money away from his lottery bound team every season. Once again, on a good team, some of those guys can fit in if given the right situation and be a third option, but none of them are going to be scoring 25 ppg for a playoff contender.
  • SQ_Crazies
    trep14 wrote: I disagree. There are plenty of players in the NBA that can put up 25 a game
    Complete and utter bullshit. To average 25 a game in an 82 game season, you have to score at least 2,050 points. There have only been [size=large]224[/size] individual seasons in NBA History over 2,050 points. And a good amount of those guys have their names in that 224 list multiple times.

    I'm not sure how many players TOTAL have played in the NBA, but 224 is close to half of how many are playing THIS YEAR.

    Not just anyone averages 25 for a season. Now, Ellis isn't going to make it to 2,050 points, but he isn't going to have 82 games played. Don't overreact about what I posted here, take it for what it is. Just some perspective.
  • trep14
    SQ_Crazies wrote:
    trep14 wrote: I disagree. There are plenty of players in the NBA that can put up 25 a game
    Complete and utter bullshit. To average 25 a game in an 82 game season, you have to score at least 2,050 points. There have only been [size=large]224[/size] individual seasons in NBA History over 2,050 points. And a good amount of those guys have their names in that 224 list multiple times.

    I'm not sure how many players TOTAL have played in the NBA, but 224 is close to half of how many are playing THIS YEAR.

    Not just anyone averages 25 for a season. Now, Ellis isn't going to make it to 2,050 points, but he isn't going to have 82 games played. Don't overreact about what I posted here, take it for what it is. Just some perspective.
    My point was there are plenty of guys who can put up points in bunches if they are the focal point of a bad team. Also, Ellis plays in a system that is very offensive minded, Nelly-ball has the Warriors putting up the second most points in the league. Fact of the matter is, I'm not impressed by Monta Ellis scoring 25 a game because his team absolutely blows, just like I wasn't impressed by Devin Harris putting up 22 a game last year or Kevin Martin finishing top 15 in the league in scoring for the past few years. Because their teams all absolutely sucked and they wouldn't be scoring nearly that much on any decent team. Someone has to score the points on those terrible teams. When Ellis was out, Curry was stepping up and scoring alot more.

    Also, let's not forget that the point of this thread is that Monta Ellis claimed he was on the same level as Lebron, Melo, Durant, Wade, etc.
  • Footwedge
    Monta's teammates can't stand the arrogant mofo as it is. Now he comes out with this? Monta is obviously all about Monta. If the Warriors want to improve next year, they would be best served unloading him.
  • SQ_Crazies
    Yes and he isn't, but some douche bag reporter asks him a stupid question, how do you expect him to respond? If you were his coach would you rather he said he's the 50th best player in the league? It'd make a lot less sense if the guy averaged 6 PPG, but I have no problem with Ellis thinking this.

    And there has ALWAYS been players who can fill it up on a given night. System, coaches, blah, blah, blah. Hundreds of players have played in hundreds of different systems--not many have averaged 25 PPG. I'm not forgetting the original point of the thread, but that isn't the argument here. That wasn't even an argument, everyone disagreed with him. And there were a few of us smart enough to understand that he shouldn't be shit on for saying what he said. The argument turned into how good of a player he actually is. He's definitely above average. And then people want to claim that there are tons of guys who could average 25 for a season. HAHA, proven to be false, obviously. I don't disagree that there are literally hundreds of players who are capable of scoring 25. But there are FEW who are able to do it for a whole season.
  • SQ_Crazies
    Footwedge wrote: Monta's teammates can't stand the arrogant mofo as it is. Now he comes out with this? Monta is obviously all about Monta. If the Warriors want to improve next year, they would be best served unloading him.
    And then there is this guy, who keeps chiming in with shit that has no relevance to anything that this discussion has included.
  • Lovejoy1984
    SQ_Crazies wrote:
    Footwedge wrote: Monta's teammates can't stand the arrogant mofo as it is. Now he comes out with this? Monta is obviously all about Monta. If the Warriors want to improve next year, they would be best served unloading him.
    And then there is this guy, who keeps chiming in with shit that has no relevance to anything that this discussion has included.
    Agree.

    I've heard a lot of Kobe's teammates didn't/don't like him. Doesn't dispute the fact he's a top 2 player in the NBA.
  • jordo212000
    Look, Ellis isn't in the top 10, and it isn't even close. But to say that he is just average is kind of silly. His skill set is nice, but I have to agree, he is another one of those NBA guys who don't get "it." He can score but his defense leaves a little to be desired and from everything I've heard, he isn't well-liked.

    If he played for a contender he probably finishes with about 15 ppg IMO. I could see him being a Jamal Crawford type. Somebody that you bring off the bench for some quick scoring.

    But Ellis being the focal point for a team assures that that team will finish with fewer than 25 wins.
  • SQ_Crazies
    jordo212000 wrote: If he played for a contender he probably finishes with about 15 ppg IMO. I could see him being a Jamal Crawford type. Somebody that you bring off the bench for some quick scoring.

    But Ellis being the focal point for a team assures that that team will finish with fewer than 25 wins.
    I agree with this.

    I never claimed that he was a dominator or a great leader or one of the top 10-20 players in the league or anything like that--just laughed when I read that someone thinks he's average and then some others are talking about him like he's garbage. The numbers don't lie boys.
  • trep14
    So he's averaging 25 ppg and its some rare feat. Its only been done 224 times in the history of the NBA or something, but then I look at names like Chris Bosh, Brandon Roy, etc. who haven't even had a 25 ppg season, yet I think could easily ditch team success and chuck their way to a 25 ppg season if they wanted to. But those guys get "it". Fun fact, Ellis is tied with Melo for most shots per game this season at 22 per game, yet everyone on the scoring list beneath him that are averaging 1 or 2 ppg less are only averaging about 15 to 18 shots a game. I stand by what I said, what Monta Ellis is doing isn't that unique, plenty of guys have the talent to volume score on bad teams. Above average NBA player, yes. But I put him on the level of Jamal Crawford, Kevin Martin, Ben Gordon etc., and I'm not that impressed by those guys, so why should I be with Monta? Just my opinion.
  • hoops23
    trep14 bringing the knowledge!

    I don't think anybody is talking about Monta's skill set, because he has skill.. However, he doesn't implement anything to his game that would elevate his game above "good"...

    Again, I'm not impressed with him scoring 25PPG on a team that sucks ass. Do it on a winner, then I'll be impressed. Especially when you're free to take any and whatever shot you'd like... to the tune of 22 a game.

    Again 22 shots per game for 25 ppg? Not that great.
  • SQ_Crazies
    Actually, what you're both doing is missing the point.

    I don't disagree with any of that. I'm not putting him on the superstar level. Not all guys have "it". That "it" is what separates Kobe Bryant from Monta Ellis. Not all guys are winners either, some are there to collect their check (I'm not saying Ellis is one of those guys--I don't know really). But you don't have to have "it" to be a good player. You can't argue that he doesn't have some incredible basketball skill. You're basing it too much off of the superstars, all I'm saying is he's not an average player. You're misjudging what average means in the NBA, like I said, you're basing it on the superstars too much. There are PLENTY of above average players in the NBA who aren't superstars.
  • Lovejoy1984
    You should be impressed with Martin, for the fact that he gets his points, on far fewer shots.

    Averaging 21 per game on only 14 shots This Season. Been routinely considered one of the most efficient(sp) in the league. I agree his defense is average, same with his other stats, but he certainly isn't a volume scorer like the others

    Career Numbers:

    Ben Gordon
    16 shots for 20 points

    Jamal Crawford
    13 shots for 15 points

    Kevin Martin
    11 shots for 17 points

    Just so you miss the point. I agree that Martin has average defense, and may not have the IT factor, but shouldn't be lumped into the Volume scorer category like the others.
  • SQ_Crazies
    Being a volume scorer doesn't make you a below average player either. If you need 6 shots to get 6 points, then you're a below average and you're a volume scorer. If you score 25 on 22, then you're a volume scorer but you're above average.

    Look at the stats HR posted, aside from Martin (an above average player), those are two other volume scorers. Both are also above average players.
  • hoops23
    SQ_Crazies wrote: Actually, what you're both doing is missing the point.

    I don't disagree with any of that. I'm not putting him on the superstar level. Not all guys have "it". That "it" is what separates Kobe Bryant from Monta Ellis. Not all guys are winners either, some are there to collect their check (I'm not saying Ellis is one of those guys--I don't know really). But you don't have to have "it" to be a good player. You can't argue that he doesn't have some incredible basketball skill. You're basing it too much off of the superstars, all I'm saying is he's not an average player. You're misjudging what average means in the NBA, like I said, you're basing it on the superstars too much. There are PLENTY of above average players in the NBA who aren't superstars.
    No, I think YOU'RE missing the point. Seeing as how you're all over the place with your argument.

    I'm not basing this on anything, Monta Ellis already did that. What I am basing it on is scoring 25 PPG on 22 shots on a team with 20 wins.

    Those numbers don't compute well with me, because they're not efficient.

    I seriously don't understand what is so hard to realize. This guy takes 22 shots a game! He only averages 25 on those 22 shots.

    You guys came in here and tried to defend Monta and call him a great player. I simply said he's "good" at best.

    I'm not denying that he has the skill set, but he doesn't utilize it. He's an average shooter, a bad defender, and an "ok" passer.
  • hoops23
    I'll agree with above average, or "good" as I've been saying.. But he's no where near great or "very good"...
  • SQ_Crazies
    No, it's definitely you that is missing the point. I don't disagree with any of that. And my argument has not been all over the place--my only argument has been that he's an above average player.
  • SQ_Crazies
    LTrain23 wrote: I'll agree with above average, or "good" as I've been saying.. But he's no where near great or "very good"...
    Alright, well absolutely no where will you find where I said he's an elite player. I know you said good, others said average. All I've done is argue that he is not just average--and we have agreed the whole time, so see what I mean, you were missing the point. ;)
  • sleeper
    Monta Ellis is a poor man's AI. He scores a lot because he shoots a lot and his team is absolutely terrible. He's not even top 20 in this league, and maybe not even top 50. I'd take Varejao, Mo, and West over this joker.
  • jordo212000
    sleeper wrote: I'd take Varejao... over this joker.
    I'd love to see you run a team. That would be endless comedy for me. If you think Varejao is a better player, you have even less sports knowledge than I thought you did.
  • SQ_Crazies
    sleeper wrote: Monta Ellis is a poor man's AI. He scores a lot because he shoots a lot and his team is absolutely terrible. He's not even top 20 in this league, and maybe not even top 50. I'd take Varejao, Mo, and West over this joker.
    This is what I was talking about with my argument in the beginning. Total overreaction to what he said. I'd take those 3 over him as well, but what do you expect him to say? LeBron thinks he can win the scoring title any time he wants (and I agree with him) but this is no different. Players on top have to believe they're the best or they never will be. Ellis is a young player, a lot of talent and he believes he's that good. People are totally overreacting to this, it's confidence more than arrogance to him. I'm not saying he's on top, but to get there you have to believe you're that good first. If you don't think you're that good, you won't ever be that good. And he would have never got to the level he's at today without an attitude like that--same can be said for MANY professional athletes. That's the way their minds work, that's how they get there. I'm 6'5, 230 pounds. I was blessed with a big body, there are many professionals that were blessed with good size. Why am I not a professional athlete? People's brains work differently. To be on top it takes a different kind of mindset and attitude than guys like us have. Maybe one of us will go on to be a big corporate CEO someday or on top of whatever it is you're doing--you have that same thing Monta Ellis has, you just applied it to something differently.
  • SQ_Crazies
    jordo212000 wrote:
    sleeper wrote: I'd take Varejao... over this joker.
    I'd love to see you run a team. That would be endless comedy for me. If you think Varejao is a better player, you have even less sports knowledge than I thought you did.
    Refer to a word in your own post. TEAM. If I were building a team I'd want Varejao over Ellis. I can understand other opinions--people already do build teams differently and there is no default winning setup. I'm not saying Varejao is the better player individually (it's apples to oranges anyways) but he helps a team WIN more than Ellis does. Ellis will help your team score points, but WINNING isn't all about scoring points--that's only part of the equation.
  • jordo212000
    SQ_Crazies wrote:
    jordo212000 wrote:
    sleeper wrote: I'd take Varejao... over this joker.
    I'd love to see you run a team. That would be endless comedy for me. If you think Varejao is a better player, you have even less sports knowledge than I thought you did.
    Refer to a word in your own post. TEAM. If I were building a team I'd want Varejao over Ellis. I can understand other opinions--people already do build teams differently and there is no default winning setup. I'm not saying Varejao is the better player individually (it's apples to oranges anyways) but he helps a team WIN more than Ellis does. Ellis will help your team score points, but WINNING isn't all about scoring points--that's only part of the equation.
    Haha. I don't care man, we've already established that Ellis isn't a centerpiece guy. He shouldn't be a focal point guy, but to say you'd take Varejao before Ellis is just silly. Varejao will never be a guy who averages 20 plus regardless of the team he plays on. And now if you counter argue that Varejao is more of a glue guy that hustles and gets rebounds, well those guys are a dime a dozen
  • SQ_Crazies
    Varejao is a 6th man of the year candidate, an All-Defense team candidate and 2nd in the league in +/- (which some say is a pointless stat, but I've always thought that over a stretch of time the stat tells you a lot--it's pointless if it's based on a single game). Those guys are a dime a dozen?

    LOL, here we go again...