There is so much jealousy over lebron james that...

• Strapping Young Lad

  

  Why does he assume that players today have 10x's the basketball IQ of those in the past??? Oh wait, because he's an idiot, that's right....
  
  That's just some stupid made up unbelievable "statistic" that he made up to make himself think he knows what he's talking about....
  
  Average playesr Bball IQ is 10 times higher than back in the day??? Prove that!!!
• devil1197

  Strapping Young Lad wrote: Why does he assume that players today have 10x's the basketball IQ of those in the past??? Oh wait, because he's an idiot, that's right....
  
  That's just some stupid made up unbelievable "statistic" that he made up to make himself think he knows what he's talking about....
  
  Average playesr Bball IQ is 10 times higher than back in the day??? Prove that!!!

  This entire argument is based on those examples.
  
  Bo's comment like this is the exact same thing. You have no idea that LeBron would foul out or if those teams would actually hit shots. There is no factual information to back up those claims.
  

  Boston had actual ball movement and would get open look after open look. And yes they would hit those shots. Lebron would foul out via charges and help defense.

• Cleveland Buck

  

  • Zone defense rules clarified with new rules for Illegal Defensive Alignments.
  a. Weak side defenders may come in the pro lane (16’), but not in the college lane (12’) for more than three seconds.
  b. Defender on post player is allowed in defensive three-second area (A post player is any player adjacent to paint area).
  c. Player without ball may not be double-teamed from weak side.
  d. Offensive player above foul line and inside circle must be played by defender inside dotted line.
  e. If offensive player is above the top of the circle, defender must come to a position above foul line.
  f. Defender on cutter must follow the cutter, switch, or double-team the ball.
  • After the first illegal defense violation, the clock is reset to 24 seconds. All subsequent violations result in one free throw and possession of the ball. If any violation occurs during the last 24 seconds of each quarter or overtime period, the offended team receives one free throw.

  http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_history.html
  
  Those were the illegal defense rules from 1981-1997. That was real basketball, I suppose.
• Skyhook79

  

  Anyone else find it ironic that sq_crazies is bringing up the subject of Basketball IQ?
  
  Thats like the Pope describing what its like to be married.
• Footwedge

  SQ_Crazies wrote: LOL yes, well said--except for the fact that zone defense is legal. Which tells me that you haven't watched the NBA any more than you've watched Oprah in 5-6 years. No wonder you don't think it's basketball. Zone defense would kill most teams that ran it in the NBA. Guys are too athletic and learned ways to beat zones as fundamentals. A lot of older guys don't think the NBA is basketball anymore either--what they don't realize is that the average players basketball IQ is 10 times higher than it was back in the day because the game has evolved based on what those former players did so the game is played a lot differently now.

  I've been in your corner on a lot of things Square....and you have an argument about the players being bigger and stronger. You should leave at that...bigger and stronger.....But IQ? I don't think so. That's an insult to the game.
  
  As far as the different eras of the game.....Oscar Roberstson= or > Magic Johnson who was = or> John Stockton who was = or > CP3 or Steve Nash.
  
  Wilt and Kareem were = or > than any center since...including Shaq in his prime.
  
  And other than Jordan, I could list a whole boatload of 3's and 4's that were = or> than today's 3's and 4's.
  
  All I'd have to do is post career numbers of these players comparing and contrasting.
  
  Naismith invented the game a long time ago. Just because you weren't there to see them play, doesn't change the career numbers that some of these guys put up.
• Strapping Young Lad

  

  devil1197 wrote:

  Strapping Young Lad wrote: Why does he assume that players today have 10x's the basketball IQ of those in the past??? Oh wait, because he's an idiot, that's right....
  
  That's just some stupid made up unbelievable "statistic" that he made up to make himself think he knows what he's talking about....
  
  Average playesr Bball IQ is 10 times higher than back in the day??? Prove that!!!

  This entire argument is based on those examples.
  
  Bo's comment like this is the exact same thing. You have no idea that LeBron would foul out or if those teams would actually hit shots. There is no factual information to back up those claims.
  

  Boston had actual ball movement and would get open look after open look. And yes they would hit those shots. Lebron would foul out via charges and help defense.

  Who gives a shit??? I didn't even read what the hell these two were arguing about past the first two posts.....
  
  But claiming that all those great players from the past were relatively basketball stupid??? Give me a fuckin' break. That's an insult to some fantstic players and NBA icons. It's also false and just another example of some Lebrick nutsweating dipshit saying whatever the hell comes to mind if he thinks it will make Lebrick look better than he actually is. Suck it.
• SQ_Crazies

  

  LOL, anyone else care to put words in my mouth?
  
  You're a straight up retard if you don't think that athletics has improved on all fronts since the 1980's.
• Strapping Young Lad

  

  how do you plan on quantifying someone's basketball IQ???? what is the claim that basketball IQ has improved 10 fold since whenever based on??? What does that kind of broad generalization show???? Every player today has a higher IQ than every player before or what???
  
  Looks like you sir are the "retard"......
• Strapping Young Lad

  

  I can name plenty of ways that athletics has gotten worse since the 1980's in fact......
• SQ_Crazies

  

  Ok, do it...
  
  Did I ever say that every player today has a higher IQ than before? No, I clearly said that the average player has a higher basketball IQ than the average player from the 80's. Why? Because the game has evolved, become a lot bigger, studied deeper and in different ways--thats on top of what was already done back then. It's more widely taught and there are smarter teachers--guys that have been in the game 30, 40, 50, 60 years. Technology has made athletes bigger, stronger, faster and more able to achieve their potential. When you're able to do more physically then you're able to move on and learn more about the intricacies of the game. When you know those intricacies and you can study them then you know how to beat them, how to defend them. It's just like QB's studying defenses and knowing what's coming--not that they didn't study them before and try to anticipate, it's just easier to do now with the different technologies available. Why do you think defenses are constantly trying to find different ways to disguise coverages, show a QB something they haven't seen. Back in the day there were teams that would line up in a 4-3 and run 4 plays for 90% of the game. Basketball is no different, baseball is no different, (insert sport here) is no different. Things evolve, that's why you respect the past for what it teaches you but don't be stupid enough to think no one learned anything from it. If we're moving backwards then what is the point?
• Strapping Young Lad

  

  Who exactly do you think is teaching the players of today??? The players from yesteryear.
  
  Trust me these guys today are no rocket scientists. Kobe is probably one of the most crebral players of the day and who taught him to be such? He didn't come into the league with some inherent basketball IQ greater than Phil Jackson's....
  
  You are diminishing the athletes and coaches of the past. There was certainly innovation happening. It's such a egocentric attitude to assume that you're witnessing some advent in sports intelligence. In fact sports was plenty complicated and guys were always developing new ways to succeed.
  
  Like i said, who do you think are the coaches of today??? The smartest players from the past. You think these players are coming into professional sports knowing more than their coaches??? Hell no! Everything they know is b/c the knowledge of the high IQ guys of the past is being taught to them.
  
  And the ways sports has gotten worse??? Concussions in football and drugs in baseball just to name a few. Things don't always necessarily change for the better.
  
  
  There is no way for you to show me or no way for you to know that the average player has a higher basketball IQ. That's just some unfounded idea that you have. It's not true and it's unknowable.
• Footwedge

  SQ_Crazies wrote: Ok, do it...
  
  Did I ever say that every player today has a higher IQ than before? No, I clearly said that the average player has a higher basketball IQ than the average player from the 80's. Why? Because the game has evolved, become a lot bigger, studied deeper and in different ways--thats on top of what was already done back then. It's more widely taught and there are smarter teachers--guys that have been in the game 30, 40, 50, 60 years. Technology has made athletes bigger, stronger, faster and more able to achieve their potential. When you're able to do more physically then you're able to move on and learn more about the intricacies of the game. When you know those intricacies and you can study them then you know how to beat them, how to defend them. It's just like QB's studying defenses and knowing what's coming--not that they didn't study them before and try to anticipate, it's just easier to do now with the different technologies available. Why do you think defenses are constantly trying to find different ways to disguise coverages, show a QB something they haven't seen. Back in the day there were teams that would line up in a 4-3 and run 4 plays for 90% of the game. Basketball is no different, baseball is no different, (insert sport here) is no different. Things evolve, that's why you respect the past for what it teaches you but don't be stupid enough to think no one learned anything from it. If we're moving backwards then what is the point?

  They are bigger and stronger....but not any smarter.
• jpake1

  

  Just because somebody is bigger, stronger, and faster doesn't mean they're better. I thought the NFL Combine and bust NBA draft picks would have proven that by now. As for if the players today are smarter than players of the past... well, I'll leave the for the idiots of the huddle to debate for days and days.
• Strapping Young Lad

  

  There's no way to show that the players of today have higher Bball IQ, so why would someone even want to try and claim it, let alone believe it. How the hell could you possibly know that????
  
  I want to see some type of mathmatical model to support your claim SQ. I'll be waiting.......
• SQ_Crazies

  

  Strapping Young Lad wrote: Who exactly do you think is teaching the players of today??? The players from yesteryear.

  Exactly.
• Strapping Young Lad

  

  So the student knows more than the teacher??? That's what you're trying to say here???
• SQ_Crazies

  

  WTF are you talking about? What do you not understand about the word average?
• Strapping Young Lad

  

  What don't you understand about stating the basis on which you make this claim???? So far, no one has backed you on this claim that the "average" player has a higher basketball IQ now. Back up your claim.....
• jpake1

  

  He doesn't have factual information. Nor is there any true way to collect factual information. It's a belief of his. He has stated, in a long paragraph, as to why he has this belief. Maybe you didn't read that long paragraph? He has beliefs, not facts. But everybody else is in the same boat too. It's one of those debates that'll never really be solved.
• SQ_Crazies

  

  I'll spell it out for you, you've even helped prove my point.
  
  The players from back in the day are teaching the ones of today right? The highest basketball IQ's rise to the top. So you consider that you have the smartest basketball minds teaching kids today, the technology that makes it easier for guys to reach their potential and easier for those basketball minds to teach. Therefore the average player today has a higher basketball IQ than the players from back in the day. Again, if we aren't moving forward then what is the point? You have guys like Dwight Howard who work with some of the all time greats in the offseason and learn everything they know--add that to the fact that his body is more capable than Ewing's ever was and you create a beast. That's just an example, it's all over. Basketball is being played on a much larger scale now, it's introduced to more people than ever before--there are more people playing the game than ever before. There are more camps and things like that to go learn the game. There is no factual basis, I think it's just a pretty logical thought. Like I said, if we aren't moving forward then what is the point? I'm not dissing the past, but it's naive to think that things don't improve after years and years of experience. So again, I never said that there weren't guys back in the day that didn't have incredibly high basketball IQ's, I simply said the average player today has a higher basketball IQ than the average before--there are always exceptions both ways. There are many examples of that--basketball is more competitive now than it ever has been on all levels.
• Skyhook79

  

  "There are many examples of that--basketball is more competitive now than it ever has been on all levels."
  
  There were no New Jersey's in the 80's.
• Pick6

  

  But there were the 76ers in the 70s. So according to your argument, that era sucked.
• bo shemmy3337

  Bigger and stronger means nothing in the game of basketball. A good example was when USA lost in the Olympics the time before the redeem team.
  
  Why do I think the guys from the 80"s would hit open jumpers? because in the games I watched, they shot better than the current NBA player IMO.
• bo shemmy3337

  Just because your are taught by someone, does not make you better than they were IMO. A great example of that is Dale Ernhart jr.Also Micheal Jordan's son. He has the genetics and the teacher yet he is not NBA material IMO.
• hoops23

  

  jpake1 wrote: Just because somebody is bigger, stronger, and faster doesn't mean they're better. I thought the NFL Combine and bust NBA draft picks would have proven that by now. As for if the players today are smarter than players of the past... well, I'll leave the for the idiots of the huddle to debate for days and days.

  You've been rather cranky recently.. What's up?