Anderson Varejao = horrid?

• SQ_Crazies

  

  Cleveland Buck wrote: Andy makes $6.4 million per year and is worth every bit of it.

  Every penny. Why do you think fans around the league and other teams hate him? Because he's Andy, he gets in your head, he plays at a different speed than most guys. He's the guy that everyone hates but secretly wants on their team.
• h2thaizzo

  SQ_Crazies wrote: I'm sorry but if you think he isn't a vital part of this team and a hell of a lot better than horrid then you either don't watch much or you just don't understand the game that well. There is no way you can think he's horrid and doesn't bring anything to the team, that's insane.

  I'm pretty sure that in one of last weeks games, they flashed a stat that showed that the Cavs + scoring with Andy on the floor is higher than any other teams player in the league. We have outscored our opponents by 349 points when Andy is on the floor. http://www.82games.com/0910/09CLE12.HTM. When LeBron is on the floor we outscore the opposition by 325 points. Kobe Bryant 321 points. Dwight Howard 269 points. Just to name a few. I'd say that's gotta have some weight into the argument of why Hollinger has him for DPOY right now.
• SQ_Crazies

  

  I mean he has to be considered for some defensive awards. He really is one of the best in the league at a pretty damn consistent basis. Someone on this team has to be considered for something--I know exactly how big LeBron is for this team but he isn't doing it by himself.
• hoops23

  

  He won't win it, but he should be(and according to some analysts) is in the running for 6th man of the year.
• Fab4Runner

  

  I love him. Some of the stuff he does annoys the shit out of me...but I think that's the point. I can only imagine how badly I'd hate him if I was an opposing player or fan of that team. Luckily, I'm a Cavs fan and can appreciate all he does for the team. There are stats to back up what some of us are saying...but it's really that plus all of the small things not measured in stats that make him worth what he is paid.
• just_a_swimmer

  

  I can't understand some of the posts on here. Do you guys watch?
  Andy is vital. He plays hard, gets steals, blocks shots, defends, rebounds and scores when he is asked too, not to mention his free throw shots have improved too. Since he has come to the cavs he has gotten so much better and improved his game every year. This year being his best yet....stay tuned.
  
  About the flops, that doesn't seem to be a big part of his game anymore either. Not that he doesn't do it now and again but everyone does it.
• KnightXC1

  

  John Hollinger is a moron for starters. He said on TV a couple of years ago that Steve Nash and Dirk didn't deserve to be MVP's the years they won and at that point I lost any respect for his opinion. His team rankings are garbage and flawed to no end and like someone said, the Cavs beat the Lakers but the Lakers jumped them? Cmon now. He and Marc Stein are idiots.
  
  As for Varejao, he won't and shouldn't win the DPOY. He is an average defender, nothing more, nothing less; and there is nothing wrong with that. He can get away with things because if he screws up, Lebron, Shaq, and Z are there to help. He does bring energy which every team needs and he does try to be a disruptive guy to upset other teams. He is getting paid exactly what he should be getting paid. Now I personally think he benefits a ton from playing with Lebron and leaving the Cavs would have been extremely detrimental to his career unless he landed with another big time star. He does the dirty work like get rebounds, tip ins, and play aggressive defense. I have never liked him since he is a flopper and flails all over the place then whines like crazy. Even if he were on a team I rooted for, he would annoy the crap out of me with that. Same reason why I hate Turkoglu and a few others who flop like they got hit by a truck. He is a very average player who benefits from playing with a great player and some other very good players. If he played in New Jersey or for the Clippers, or Bobcats, no one would care at all about him. Not sure I would say he is "vital" to the Cavs because they are still a top 2-3 team in the league without him imo, but he is a glue guy and teams need those.
• devil1197

  AV is vital to Cleveland and every Cavs fan knows it.
• hangonsloopy

  

  devil1197 wrote: AV is vital to Cleveland and every Cavs fan knows it.

  Absolutely 100% correct.
• Mulva

  

  h2thaizzo wrote: Anytime Shaq is doubled, and Andy is on the floor, Andy finds an open spot and gets an easy hoop. 13 points, 11 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 steal, I'd take that every night.

  So would I, but he averages 8, 8, 1 and 1, so I'm not sure where you got those numbers.
• Fly4Fun

  

  KnightXC1 wrote: John Hollinger is a moron for starters. He said on TV a couple of years ago that Steve Nash and Dirk didn't deserve to be MVP's the years they won and at that point I lost any respect for his opinion. His team rankings are garbage and flawed to no end and like someone said, the Cavs beat the Lakers but the Lakers jumped them? Cmon now. He and Marc Stein are idiots.

  If you think John Hollinger is a moron for thinking Nash and Dirk didn't deserve the MVP... then you're a moron. Nash definitely did not deserve the MVP... Dirk is borderline. But most people agreed Nash definitely didn't deserve it. Is Nash an all-star? Yes... MVP? Hell no!
  
  John Hollinger actually is a pretty intelligent guy and uses a statistical system to figure out his rankings... are they perfect? No, but they are pretty good. More often than not rankings based on statistics in meaningful categories are generally better tools than the human opinion. Are they perfect? No. But they are usually more accurate.
• bigdaddy2003

  

  Fly4Fun wrote:

  KnightXC1 wrote: John Hollinger is a moron for starters. He said on TV a couple of years ago that Steve Nash and Dirk didn't deserve to be MVP's the years they won and at that point I lost any respect for his opinion. His team rankings are garbage and flawed to no end and like someone said, the Cavs beat the Lakers but the Lakers jumped them? Cmon now. He and Marc Stein are idiots.

  If you think John Hollinger is a moron for thinking Nash and Dirk didn't deserve the MVP... then you're a moron. Nash definitely did not deserve the MVP... Dirk is borderline. But most people agreed Nash definitely didn't deserve it. Is Nash an all-star? Yes... MVP? Hell no!
  
  John Hollinger actually is a pretty intelligent guy and uses a statistical system to figure out his rankings... are they perfect? No, but they are pretty good. More often than not rankings based on statistics in meaningful categories are generally better tools than the human opinion. Are they perfect? No. But they are usually more accurate.

  Nash didn't deserve the MVP the years he won? Wow
• devil1197

  Mulva wrote:

  h2thaizzo wrote: Anytime Shaq is doubled, and Andy is on the floor, Andy finds an open spot and gets an easy hoop. 13 points, 11 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 steal, I'd take that every night.

  So would I, but he averages 8, 8, 1 and 1, so I'm not sure where you got those numbers.

  Those are his numbers from last night.
  
  And no you wouldn't.
• h2thaizzo

  Mulva wrote:

  h2thaizzo wrote: Anytime Shaq is doubled, and Andy is on the floor, Andy finds an open spot and gets an easy hoop. 13 points, 11 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 steal, I'd take that every night.

  So would I, but he averages 8, 8, 1 and 1, so I'm not sure where you got those numbers.

  Try the stat lines from last night's game. It's not rocket science.
• KnightXC1

  

  Nash went to Phoenix and turned them immediately into title contenders. He was very deserving of the MVP both years. Not sure where you got "most people" agree he didn't deserve it because he was very worthy of that award. Dirk was as well seeing as he led Dallas to the finals and one of the best records in the league.
• sleeper

  

  AV is a blob of unathletic ability and has no basketball sense, but he's one of the most underrated players in the league. He's not the typical mold of a high flying, ultra tough, smooth NBA player, but he has the intangibles that are unique and HUGE to a team. Never underestimate the value of having a player willing to do the dirty work and get you those extra possessions, because in close games, possessions are huge.
  
  My only problem with Andy is that he whines after every call, its annoying. But, he's easily a top 10 defender, and should be #1 in the 6th man of the year award, and you can take that to the bank.
• Fly4Fun

  

  KnightXC1 wrote: Nash went to Phoenix and turned them immediately into title contenders. He was very deserving of the MVP both years. Not sure where you got "most people" agree he didn't deserve it because he was very worthy of that award. Dirk was as well seeing as he led Dallas to the finals and one of the best records in the league.

  I didn't say Dirk wasn't worthy, I said it was debatable (which often awards are). But I think you're confusing history a bit as well, the year Dirk won the MVP was the year the Mavs were knocked out in the first round by the 8 seed, Golden State Warriors.
  
  But Nash was not worthy... maybe one, but certainly not back to back. The Suns weren't title contenders as they had nothing resembling a defense... they did well in the regular season playing a style of basketball that can not succeed in the post-season. The SSOL offense is a gimmicky offense that boosts offensive stats while pretty much ignoring defense... It'd be like if the Heisman went to Texas Tech or Hawaii (when June Jones was coach) QB every year because they put up the best offensive stats.
• sleeper

  

  Also, Steve Nash is garbage and didn't deserve the MVP in any of those years. Sorry.
• I drain 3's

  While Nash may not have deserved the MVP, there is no way he should be labeled as "garbage". That dude is one of the best point guards in the league, top 3 easily, and has been for years.
• jpake1

  

  Just a question for some people... is there a difference in comparing great players and ending up discussing rings, and to have somebody say you can't talk like that because it's a team award and this is merely a player discussion-- compared to discussing mvp candidates and ending up discussing team wins, and have nobody ever say you can't say that because it's a team achievment and we're merely discussing players. I've always found that a bit hypocritical. If people can base a player's reputation during an MVP race on his teams success, why can't we base a player's repution during his career on his teams success? I know a lot of people bring up the rings stuff, but I've also seen more people lately say get that weak stuff out of here.
• Fly4Fun

  

  jpake1 wrote: Just a question for some people... is there a difference in comparing great players and ending up discussing rings, and to have somebody say you can't talk like that because it's a team award and this is merely a player discussion-- compared to discussing mvp candidates and ending up discussing team wins, and have nobody ever say you can't say that because it's a team achievment and we're merely discussing players. I've always found that a bit hypocritical. If people can base a player's reputation during an MVP race on his teams success, why can't we base a player's repution during his career on his teams success? I know a lot of people bring up the rings stuff, but I've also seen more people lately say get that weak stuff out of here.

  The reason people bring in team success when talking about the MVP because it is clearly taken into consideration when handing out the award especially in recent history. People speak of MVP worthiness and team success because they are just being realistic with how it is awarded.
  
  The MVP isn't necessarily synonymous with the best player... it just happened to coincide last year.
• Hb31187

  

  Landry, Ginobli, Terry, Smith(homer pick), Crawford.
  
  I think all them will rank above AV in 6th man of the year voting
• jpake1

  

  It's been that way with recent history, and it hasn't always been that way. I'm just saying that in both circumstances, an individual's greatness is being talked about, but the circumstances differ when involving the team accomplishment. People want to throw that team accomplishmen out when talking about careers and titles when comparing players, but they're so eage now-a-days to involve the team accomplishment when talking about an individual MVP accomplishment. Many people say you can't talk about team success when comparing individuals, but that is the exact thing they do when it comes to the MVP. LBJ could have average what he did last year, but if that team was 45-37, he wouldn't have gotten the award. A lesser player would have gotten it because of the teams success. Just doesn't seem right to me now-a-days.
• KnightXC1

  

  Fly - My bad on the year Dirk won, had my years mixed up. But the MVP is not a postseason award so Dirk was deserving that year. Same goes for Nash as he took the Suns from a 29 win team to a 62 win team in one year. That is incredible and won 54 the following year when he got the second MVP. The second one may be up for a little more debate but their is no denying he deserved it over anyone in 2005.
• h2thaizzo

  the 6th man of the year award is the biggest joke of NBA awards IMO.