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ALDS- New York Yankees vs Cleveland Indians series thread

  • TBone14
    It's still too soon for me to really reflect on the season. Maybe another night. Almost feels like grieving right now. I'm disappointed, sad, angry, bitter.
  • Heretic
    Home plate ump was trash with a strike zone that fluctuated well off the plate often. Offense was trash, with all the great regular season guys batting .100. Defense was trash, giving out errors like crazy. Pitching was better than the rest, except the team's ace was trash and "better than the rest" won't win games when everything else was trash.
  • Crimson streak
    Heretic;1877103 wrote:Home plate ump was trash with a strike zone that fluctuated well off the plate often. Offense was trash, with all the great regular season guys batting .100. Defense was trash, giving out errors like crazy. Pitching was better than the rest, except the team's ace was trash and "better than the rest" won't win games when everything else was trash.
    Yup hit the nail on the head with that one. Also I wouldn't mind them moving in from kipnis


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  • BRF
    F.
  • vball10set
    interesting take from facebook friend...
    Tribe post game analysis . . . Tito's decisions that will be debated for many years by baseball pundits, media, and educated fans . . .
    1) Since Allen had already thrown more than 35 pitches and was over-exposed to the Yankees, why did Tito leave him him to face a very tough left-handed hitter who hits righties way better than lefties? With a lefty hitter coming up in the 9th (Gardner) with 2 guys on, we had a lefty pitcher Olson warmed up in the pen. Why wasn't Olson called upon to upon to face the lefty Gardner? No confidence in Olson? Check out Olson's ERA against lefties since he came to the Tribe. Check out lefties batting average against Olson since he came to the Tribe. Hmmm.
    2) With Allen pitching in the top of the 9th, why did Tito (or whomever calls the pitches from the bench) or Perez the catcher call 9 straight fastballs to Gardner during the critical 12-pitch at bat when it was obvious that Gardner was right on the fastball and kept getting better and better swings each time? (BTW - Allen's fastball has no movement - straight as a string at 94-95 mph).No cut to it. Not tail to it. Why wasn't Allen's best pitch (curve ball) called when the count was 3-2 and Gardner had fouled off 9 consecutive fastballs? We all know what happens the longer a good hitter keeps seeing the same pitch repeatedly and keeps fouling it off. You saw what happened. Strange decision to throw Gardner 9 straight fastballs. Hmmm.
    3) Why was Yandy Diaz left off the post season roster when he was a good right handed hitter who is excellent at taking the ball to the opposite field (exactly what was needed in the two games against Sabbathia). Diaz plays a good 3rd base! Instead we got Gonalez and Urshela who made critical errors and who are both weak hitters. This past season, I saw Diaz at 3rd in person three different times. He was surprisingly good at 3rd base. Mobile, agile, with a very good and accurate arm. Why put Brantley on the roster when he has missed the last two months of the season; could not play the field; and was basically an automatic out at the plate? Why Gonzalez on the post season roster?
    4) Pitchers who start in post season on short rest have an ERA over 5. As I recall, it is almost 6 runs per 9 innings. Therefore, why start Bauer on short rest when you had Tomlin who was fresh and who could have started . . .and who was VERY effective in 2 innings of relief work in game 2? Many times, a soft tosser who changes speeds and hits his spots effectively is more effective against free swinging, home run hitting teams like the Yankees. Each time Tomlin pitched in relief, he was very effective because of the different look and style. If Tomlin would have gotten into trouble, Tito could have made it a bullpen game - which is often more effective in the post-season anyway (again different styles, different arm slots, different release points, different pitches). Variety is the spice of life in post-season baseball.
    5) During the last 2 months of the season, Zimmer's batting average had dropped to .230. He looked terrible at the plate. He was utterly lost. Was not even making much contact. Many strike outs. Tyler Naquin, a true outfielder with speed and a cannon for an arm (who played center field a lot in Columbus and last year in Cleveland) rotted in the bench. Naquin actually won the centerfield job this year coming out of spring training. Naquin had a very good year at Columbus this season. Check out his stats. Why didn't Tito play Naquin the last month or so of the season to get him prepped for post season? Why play Kipnis (a major league 2nd baseman who was not hitting anyway) in centerfield, when you had a very good true outfielder rotting on your bench? Note: One thing that I do not like about Francona is that he stubbornly sticks with veterans who are under-performing (Kipnis, Chisenhall, Brantley) and is slow to give younger players opportunities. Reminds me of Jim Leyland.
    These are the decisions that will be debated for many years.
  • Laley23
    Commander of Awesome;1877098 wrote:Second yr in a row we lose bc Tito wont pitch Salazar. SMDH
    ??? When was Salazar gonna pitch other than game 2? And last year? He wasn't healthy enough to even be in roster until WS, and you want him thrown out there for the first time in over a month?
  • Commander of Awesome
    Laley23;1877114 wrote:??? When was Salazar gonna pitch other than game 2? And last year? He wasn't healthy enough to even be in roster until WS, and you want him thrown out there for the first time in over a month?
    Could have started him over Bauer on short rest and over Klubot who was clearly not healthy. Unpopular opinion, but DGAF.

    As for the WS, yes. I would have. Kids a stud. I'd rather go down with our best players than a guy like fucking Tomlin out there.
  • kizer permanente
    Tiernan;1877046 wrote:I couldn’t be happier...oh wait yes I could...of the Clowns go O-16 I’ll be much happier.
    Lol? Most people experience happiness from their team winning. I couldn't imagine the level of sadness ones life would have to be to watch another team lose to make them happy.
    Misery loves company?
  • Ironman92
    vball10set;1877070 wrote:I thought some people were perma-banned...Ironman92 asleep at the wheel maybe?
    Who tiernan? I didn't ban or unban anyone. Justin fixed everything. Maybe tiernan stalked me on FB, figured out my people's names and typed in 20 tries for my password until he got it. While banning others unbanned himself.

    Seems far but also not tremendously difficult either.
  • Dr Winston O'Boogie
    Tiernan;1877046 wrote:I couldn’t be happier...oh wait yes I could...of the Clowns go O-16 I’ll be much happier.
    Hey, you're back. When were you let loose again? I haven't seen your name anywhere else on here recently. I also see the basement's been taken away. Was that due to you?

    Anyway, welcome back.
  • Classyposter58
    To be frank the Indians showed no fire and that's what was worse about last night. The Yankees were clearly more excited to be in that game, just look at Todd Frazier when he scored the last run, he lost his mind.

    IMO the Indians need some good veteran clubhouse guys to get this team fired up, because you never know when your window is going to close. I never thought Detroit with all that hitting and pitching would only make it to 1 WS, yet they just never put it all together. Cleveland has it all and a top notch bullpen to boot, so the fact that they couldn't even make it to round 2 is shocking. Very odd how they were outplayed for really 4 of the 5 games against an inexperienced team
  • vball10set
    Ironman92;1877117 wrote:Who tiernan? I didn't ban or unban anyone. Justin fixed everything. Maybe tiernan stalked me on FB, figured out my people's names and typed in 20 tries for my password until he got it. While banning others unbanned himself.

    Seems far but also not tremendously difficult either.
    I wasn't implying he had anything to do with the hack--where'd you get that? I just thought that tearnan was banned to the basement and was surprised to see him up here, and I thought maybe you had inadvertently pardoned him-lol...however, after reading the last sentence of your first paragraph, you answered my post
  • Ironman92
    vball10set;1877127 wrote:I wasn't implying he had anything to do with the hack--where'd you get that? I just thought that tearnan was banned to the basement and was surprised to see him up here, and I thought maybe you had inadvertently pardoned him-lol...however, after reading the last sentence of your first paragraph, you answered my post
    I still just think it was someone on this site who did it. I know you didn't imply anything.
  • vball10set
    Ironman92;1877133 wrote:I still just think it was someone on this site who did it. I know you didn't imply anything.
    :sleepy:er?
  • Ironman92
    vball10set;1877139 wrote::sleepy:er?
    Yeah....my first guess
  • like_that
    Commander of Awesome;1877115 wrote:Could have started him over Bauer on short rest and over Klubot who was clearly not healthy. Unpopular opinion, but DGAF.

    As for the WS, yes. I would have. Kids a stud. I'd rather go down with our best players than a guy like fucking Tomlin out there.
    Can Salazar get in the batters box and make an impact? He could have pitched lights out and they still wouldn't have won with our 1-5 batters having less than 10 hits combined. We should have won game 3, and that had nothing to do with utilization of Salazar. Game 4 I can somewhat see the argument, but there is a reason Salazar only pithced 1.5 innings. If you recall, our lineup looked like shit during that game as well.

    I think you should look at Salazar's game logs this season. He wasnt as dominant as you believe he is.
  • like_that
    like_that;1877144 wrote:Can Salazar get in the batters box and make an impact? He could have pitched lights out and they still wouldn't have won with our 1-5 batters having less than 10 hits combined. We should have won game 3, and that had nothing to do with utilization of Salazar. Game 4 I can somewhat see the argument, but there is a reason Salazar only pithced 1.5 innings. If you recall, our lineup looked like shit during that game as well.

    I think you should look at Salazar's game logs this season. He wasnt as dominant as you believe he is.
    BTW, based on how our lineup looked, this might have not been a bad idea, smfh.
  • TBone14
    Cookie was great in Game 3 and we didn't score a fucking run. That's the one that hurts. The only run was a homer off Miller...which doubles the pain. Should have been a sweep. Also...we lost 1-0 and Shaquille O'Neal in right took away a 2 run home run. That was the game.

    I'm fine with Kluber pitching a little dinged up. Can you imagine what some of us would be saying if Kluber hadn't pitched and Tomlin/Salazar/Clevinger had gotten rocked. "WHY ARE WE NOT PITCHING KLUBER? I DON'T CARE IF HE IS HURT...SUCK IT UP! HIM INJURED IS STILL BETTER THAN THOSE BUMS!"

    This shit is easy in hindsight. We all praised Tito all season and as late as last Friday. He didn't get dumb overnight. He made the best decisions with what he had to work with. I trust him and won't second guess every little thing...even if I may have done something different.

    If you are looking for someone to blame....there is plenty to go around. It's not Tito's fucking fault that Lindor, Kipnis, Ramirez and EE went 8-68 in the series. He went back to Urshela when none of us would have and he delivered a big RBI hit. He started Perez when many wouldn't and he had a couple good ABs and the other RBI. Our studs didn't produce. Plain and simple.
  • vball10set
    TBone14;1877148 wrote:Cookie was great in Game 3 and we didn't score a fucking run. That's the one that hurts. The only run was a homer off Miller...which doubles the pain. Should have been a sweep. Also...we lost 1-0 and Shaquille O'Neal in right took away a 2 run home run. That was the game.

    I'm fine with Kluber pitching a little dinged up. Can you imagine what some of us would be saying if Kluber hadn't pitched and Tomlin/Salazar/Clevinger had gotten rocked. "WHY ARE WE NOT PITCHING KLUBER? I DON'T CARE IF HE IS HURT...SUCK IT UP! HIM INJURED IS STILL BETTER THAN THOSE BUMS!"

    This shit is easy in hindsight. We all praised Tito all season and as late as last Friday. He didn't get dumb overnight. He made the best decisions with what he had to work with. I trust him and won't second guess every little thing...even if I may have done something different.

    If you are looking for someone to blame....there is plenty to go around. It's not Tito's fucking fault that Lindor, Kipnis, Ramirez and EE went 8-68 in the series. He went back to Urshela when none of us would have and he delivered a big RBI hit. He started Perez when many wouldn't and he had a couple good ABs and the other RBI. Our studs didn't produce. Plain and simple.
    excellent post, bulldog, and this right here will stay with me the longest--it's incredible that they all sucked so bad
  • Laley23
    Other Kipnis I agree. But, he did what he did all season, not sure why Tito moved him TJ the 2-hole over Jackson. That's the move I simply don't understand.
  • BR1986FB
    TBone14;1877148 wrote:Cookie was great in Game 3 and we didn't score a fucking run. That's the one that hurts. The only run was a homer off Miller...which doubles the pain. Should have been a sweep. Also...we lost 1-0 and Shaquille O'Neal in right took away a 2 run home run. That was the game.

    I'm fine with Kluber pitching a little dinged up. Can you imagine what some of us would be saying if Kluber hadn't pitched and Tomlin/Salazar/Clevinger had gotten rocked. "WHY ARE WE NOT PITCHING KLUBER? I DON'T CARE IF HE IS HURT...SUCK IT UP! HIM INJURED IS STILL BETTER THAN THOSE BUMS!"

    This shit is easy in hindsight. We all praised Tito all season and as late as last Friday. He didn't get dumb overnight. He made the best decisions with what he had to work with. I trust him and won't second guess every little thing...even if I may have done something different.

    If you are looking for someone to blame....there is plenty to go around. It's not Tito's fucking fault that Lindor, Kipnis, Ramirez and EE went 8-68 in the series. He went back to Urshela when none of us would have and he delivered a big RBI hit. He started Perez when many wouldn't and he had a couple good ABs and the other RBI. Our studs didn't produce. Plain and simple.
    I really have no issue with Tito. It was the players who didn't put up. Hell, to me Tito's the second best coach/manager this town's ever seen behind Paul Brown.
  • Al Bundy
    BR1986FB;1877153 wrote:I really have no issue with Tito. It was the players who didn't put up. Hell, to me Tito's the second best coach/manager this town's ever seen behind Paul Brown.
    Tito's a great manager, but he had a bad series. Too many members of the organization had a bad series.
  • vball10set
    Watching Drennan on STO, and it’s generally acknowledged that Kipnis won’t be with the team next season, and the FO will make more of an effort to re-sign Santana than Bruce.
  • TBone14
    vball10set;1877176 wrote:Watching Drennan on STO, and it’s generally acknowledged that Kipnis won’t be with the team next season, and the FO will make more of an effort to re-sign Santana than Bruce.
    Kipnis is signed. So we are going to cut him and pay him for 3 more years or is he talking trade?

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  • Laley23
    Yeah, where is Kip going? I haven't heard that at all. Santana is a better player than Bruce, but he is getting up there. I'm curious to see who else we go after and what positions. I'd like to see a big bat in the OF, but after EE not sure who can/will sign. And then some Pen help/insurance.

    Kipnis is a great trade piece however, if someone is willing. Yandy is hopefully the 3B we roll with for the next few yrs.

    The wound is too fresh, but I'll start the off-season thread on Monday.