NBA Champion - Cleveland Cavaliers 2016-2017 Season Thread

• like_that

  

  Laley23;1839350 wrote:Your hate for Boston is blinding. They are good, and so is Thomas.
  
  Not better than Cleveland, mind you, but very good.

  Boston has no business taking a series beyond 5 games with the cavs at full strength. If they got a super star I would have been on notice, but as far as the East goes I am more concerned about the Wiz or Raps before Boston.
  
  I am willing to bet Boston doesn't make the ECF.
  
  Edit: Calling them garbage was just hyperbole in the heat of the moment.
• SportsAndLady

  

  wildcats20;1839358 wrote:Any interest in the College Pick Em this year? Or your buddy from before?

  I think I'm out this year unfortunately
• Laley23

  

  friendfromlowry;1839366 wrote:You don't consider IT4 a superstar but George and/or Butler are?

  George moreso than Butler, yes.
  
  Thomas has to do this more than half a season.
• Ironman92

  

  Laley23;1839380 wrote:George moreso than Butler, yes.
  
  Thomas has to do this more than half a season.

  Maybe so but he's not wasting any time. He's found another level to his game for sure.
• Laley23

  

  Ironman92;1839383 wrote:Maybe so but he's not wasting any time. He's found another level to his game for sure.

  George has done it in the playoffs. That's why I elevate him above the other 2.
• like_that

  

  If you are drafting between George/Butler/IT and you don't have George/Butler ahead of IT on your board, then you are an idiot.
• friendfromlowry

  like_that;1839391 wrote:If you are drafting between George/Butler/IT and you don't have George/Butler ahead of IT on your board, then you are an idiot.

  
  
  What are you basing this on? I don't think you could go wrong with any of them - certainly not be an idiot for whom you'd pick, anyways. IT is killing it this season. 2nd in PPG and shooting better FG and 3pt percentages than Butler or George.
• like_that

  

  friendfromlowry;1839399 wrote:What are you basing this on? I don't think you could go wrong with any of them - certainly not be an idiot for whom you'd pick, anyways. IT is killing it this season. 2nd in PPG and shooting better FG and 3pt percentages than Butler or George.

  The fact that George and Butler both play defense for starters.
• Ironman92

  

  like_that;1839391 wrote:If you are drafting between George/Butler/IT and you don't have George/Butler ahead of IT on your board, then you are an idiot.

  I think "idiot" is too strong. George and Butler about a year younger and have been a higher level much longer but Isaiah is on it this year and hard to see him not continuing it. IMO he's been better than George this year....and right behind Butler but it's close. This crap won't hold much but he seems to have more of the type to lead a team in the 4th when his team needs it the most. George and Butler are infinitely better on defense for sure.....and drafting for a team Butler and George are the safer picks for sure but Thomas being taken over them wouldn't be idiot level IMO.
• like_that

  

  Ironman92;1839407 wrote:I think "idiot" is too strong. George and Butler about a year younger and have been a higher level much longer but Isaiah is on it this year and hard to see him not continuing it. IMO he's been better than George this year....and right behind Butler but it's close. This crap won't hold much but he seems to have more of the type to lead a team in the 4th when his team needs it the most. George and Butler are infinitely better on defense for sure.....and drafting for a team Butler and George are the safer picks for sure but Thomas being taken over them wouldn't be idiot level IMO.

  Thomas has played in 22 games THIS YEAR where he was given double digit FTA. I have a hard time seeing him getting those calls come late April and May, just like Harden/Lowry/Derozan don't get those calls at the same frequency in the post season.. In comparison, Kyrie who also attacks the rim has only had 2 games with double digit FTA. George/Butler's game doesn't heavily rely on getting to the charity line and thus during the playoffs their game is much more efficient. This is without even discussing defense. I wouldn't trust IT to guard anybody, except maybe Shump because he has been fucking garbage. Can IT win a fucking playoff series, before we even think about putting him in the same group as George and Butler? If you replace IT with George/Butler, the Celtics are a better team, period.
• Ironman92

  

  like_that;1839409 wrote:Thomas has played in 22 games THIS YEAR where he was given double digit FTA. I have a hard time seeing him getting those calls come late April and May, just like Harden/Lowry/Derozan don't get those calls at the same frequency in the post season.. In comparison, Kyrie who also attacks the rim has only had 2 games with double digit FTA. George/Butler's game doesn't heavily rely on getting to the charity line and thus during the playoffs their game is much more efficient. This is without even discussing defense. I wouldn't trust IT to guard anybody, except maybe Shump because he has been fucking garbage. Can IT win a fucking playoff series, before we even think about putting him in the same group as George and Butler? If you replace IT with George/Butler, the Celtics are a better team, period.

  Reps when I can again. Good points, especially the ft comparisons
• sleeper

  

  Cavs in 4 should they meet in the playoffs. If Love/JR are healthy, this game isn't within single digits.
  
  Plus, refs seemed to be pretty Boston slanted.
• Heretic

  

  sleeper;1839426 wrote:Cavs in 4 should they meet in the playoffs. If Love/JR are healthy, this game isn't within single digits.
  
  Plus, refs seemed to be pretty Boston slanted.

  
  So, if they meet, 6-game series. Got it!
• sleeper

  

  Heretic;1839451 wrote:So, if they meet, 6-game series. Got it!

  4 games. Cavs will sweep 4-0.
• friendfromlowry

  like_that;1839405 wrote:The fact that George and Butler both play defense for starters.

  like_that;1839409 wrote:Thomas has played in 22 games THIS YEAR where he was given double digit FTA. I have a hard time seeing him getting those calls come late April and May, just like Harden/Lowry/Derozan don't get those calls at the same frequency in the post season.. In comparison, Kyrie who also attacks the rim has only had 2 games with double digit FTA. George/Butler's game doesn't heavily rely on getting to the charity line and thus during the playoffs their game is much more efficient. This is without even discussing defense. I wouldn't trust IT to guard anybody, except maybe Shump because he has been fucking garbage. Can IT win a fucking playoff series, before we even think about putting him in the same group as George and Butler? If you replace IT with George/Butler, the Celtics are a better team, period.

  
  
  I didn't know you could be a starter on the 5th best team in the league and not play defense. Also, George and Butler may not even be in the playoffs this year. Only 4.5 games separate the 6th team from the 11th in the east.
• like_that

  

  friendfromlowry;1839525 wrote:I didn't know you could be a starter on the 5th best team in the league and not play defense. Also, George and Butler may not even be in the playoffs this year. Only 4.5 games separate the 6th team from the 11th in the east.

  ???
  
  The Warriors went 73-9 last year and it was well known that Curry couldn't (and still can't) play defense. Not sure where you are going with this argument.
• Commander of Awesome

  

  friendfromlowry;1839525 wrote:I didn't know you could be a starter on the 5th best team in the league and not play defense. Also, George and Butler may not even be in the playoffs this year. Only 4.5 games separate the 6th team from the 11th in the east.

  http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=18792247
  
  It's true. He's statistically the worst defensive player in the association.
• Commander of Awesome

  

  like_that;1839527 wrote:???
  
  The Warriors went 73-9 last year and it was well known that Curry couldn't (and still can't) play defense. Not sure where you are going with this argument.

  Biggest reason why him and Nash ever being MVP is a total fucking joke.
• Laley23

  

  like_that;1839527 wrote:???
  
  The Warriors went 73-9 last year and it was well known that Curry couldn't (and still can't) play defense. Not sure where you are going with this argument.

  Not to harp on this, but like you said Thomas is the worst defender in the league. Butler and George have made 3 straight all NBA defensive teams each (Butler all 2nd and George one 1st and two 2nd). It's not like decent defender versus average. It's elite versus atrocious.
• friendfromlowry

  Thomas is also a foot shorter than those guys and about a half-foot shorter than most everyone he'd guard. I think that certainly deserves some consideration.
• Laley23

  

  friendfromlowry;1839553 wrote:Thomas is also a foot shorter than those guys and about a half-foot shorter than most everyone he'd guard. I think that certainly deserves some consideration.

  Is it against the rules be to bigger and more athletic?
• friendfromlowry

  Laley23;1839554 wrote:Is it against the rules be to bigger and more athletic?

  
  
  What? I never said anything like that. But I think his size hurts him defensively. Maybe his effort or ability also is an issue.
• Laley23

  

  friendfromlowry;1839557 wrote:What? I never said anything like that. But I think his size hurts him defensively. Maybe his effort or ability also is an issue.

  My point is, why do we need to take that (his height) into consideration? He is short. It hurts him. Which hurts his team. Making the other players more valuable and better. It's not their fault they are bigger and stronger. It makes them more versatile and better.
• friendfromlowry

  Laley23;1839558 wrote:My point is, why do we need to take that (his height) into consideration? He is short. It hurts him. Which hurts his team. Making the other players more valuable and better. It's not their fault they are bigger and stronger. It makes them more versatile and better.

  Because he's being labeled as atrocious, worst defender in the league, etc. I guess I would reserve those characterizations for guys who don't care or try - which I don't think is Thomas.
  Take a look at this data from Fox Sports that's sorted by their defensive rating systems:
  http://www.foxsports.com/nba/stats?season=2016&category=ADVANCED&group=1&sort=5&time=0&pos=0&team=0&qual=1&sortOrder=0&opp=0&page=4
  
  You'd have to go to the 4th page to find Thomas so while he's down a ways, certainly not the worst. He's actually not far off from Kyrie.
  It's funny, though - if you watch the video that CoA linked, the very next one is about Thomas being Mr. 4th Quarter and on his way to superstar status.
• like_that

  

  friendfromlowry;1839557 wrote:What? I never said anything like that. But I think his size hurts him defensively. Maybe his effort or ability also is an issue.

  The argument was you don't take IT over Butler or PG in a draft. We aren't placing handicaps on this argument because IT is tiny.