Cleveland Browns Offseason Talk

• Laley23

  

  pkebker wrote: I have always understood why switching from a 4-3 to 3-4 effects lineman, but it doesn't make much sense to me for LB. A LB should be able to both drop into coverage, stop the run AND be a good pass rusher. Both systems include LBs doing all 3. So I can't see why it appears to be such a big deal for LBs.
  
  Now for the DL, its more of a size/quickness thing. And basically understanding their role. In a 4-3, they are more of a pass rush (quickness), while in a 3-4, they are more of just filling gaps (large size).

  Well, in a 3-4 an OLB is usually starting on the LOS, or very close to it. That is 5 more yards to cover moving backwards to drop into coverage, as well as 5 LESS yards to gather speed and make a move to avoid a defender when rushing.
• BR1986FB

  3-4 LB's are generally bigger than 4-3 LB's also. Not uncommon to see 260-270 lb linebackers in a 3-4. A lot of your 4-3 college defensive ends convert to 3-4 OLB's.
  
  That's why I scratched my head when the Eagles selected the Graham kid from Michigan. That kid was a prototype 3-4 OLB. Unless they are going to ask him to gain weight and play DE, they may be trying to put a square peg in a round hole like they did with Gocong.
• Non

  

  A 4-3 outside linebacker doesn't rush the passer as often. They're usually small (but don't have to be) and quick and ideally better dropping in coverage than a 3-4 outside linebacker.
  
  A 3-4 outside linebacker must be a pass rusher with enough ability to drop in coverage to remain on the field so they can rush the passer.
  
  You wouldn't play Lamar Woodley outside in a 4-3. He came into the league as a defensive end, made enough of a transition when they stood him up to be effective as a 3-4 outside linebacker but not enough to be a 4-3 outside linebacker.
  
  It all depends on the skills of the player. James Harrison is a little smaller and better at dropping so he probably could still play outside in a 4-3 but wouldn't be the ideal guy. Derrick Brooks would be, when he was in his prime.
  
  The inside linebacker in a 4-3 is a player that is excellent at stopping the run. Great instincts at diagnosing the play and getting to the ball and making a lot of tackles. It's also important that they can shed blocks by themselves because the 4-3 line is not tying up as many offensive linemen as in a 3-4.
  
  The 3-4 inside linebackers rely on the line to engage blockers so they can move around freely and make plays. A lot of athletic, active players can look good as an inside linebacker in a 3-4 if the nose tackle and DEs are great. They have a lot of chances to get in the backfield and stop the run. This is why when the Steelers have had injuries upfront to Aaron Smith, the inside linebackers like Farrior start to struggle because the linemen are getting on them or they're not able to come forward and hit. The running back gets through the line and is the one running at them. The second level.
  
  At defensive tackle in a 4-3, you generally have two smaller, quicker defensive tackles. But it's ok to have one that is more of a run stuffer. And then the other guy will be the explosive Warren Sapp type. He's not responsible for two gaps like the other guy, If you have two hosses it won't be that effective because you won't get enough pressure or get in the backfield. But if you have two small quick guys stopping the run will be difficult. The Eagles, Colts and even the Bucs had periods where they got run on. And then they had to pick up guys to plug in at times to stop the run.
  
  Aaron Smith and Casey Hampton wouldn't work as a 4-3 tandem. They would be two guys that are good at controlling two gaps and the run but wouldn't get pressure on the quarterback or make a lot of plays. They would need to lose one and have the second tackle be a small, explosive guy.
  
  In a 4-3, the defensive ends would be primary pass rushers with their hands on the ground. This wouldn't too difficult for Woodley because he played this position in college before they stood him up. Generally 3-4 outside linebackers and 4-3 defensive ends are the same but you don't want the 4-3 end to be too small. 260-280 for a 4-3 defensive end is a good average size.
  
  A lot of the 3-4 outside linebackers were defensive ends in college. But some guys are able to transition because they can cover enough to stay on the field, like Woodley. Some guys either don't have enough pass rush moves (they are a one trick pony) or they're just not athletic enough to drop in coverage adequately. So they either can't play or are only situational rushers.
• Non

  

  Carpenter is probably out of luck.
  
  Because he's not a strong enough pass rusher to be one of the two outside in a 3-4 like Demarcus Ware. So that automatically eliminates him as a 3-4 outside. No chance if you're not a strong pass rusher. Even before getting into the coverage.
  
  As a 4-3 outside, he's a little big. Notice how the Colts guys are small and quick. Carpenter would have to be a bit of a freak to be that big and be able to fly around with that speed and also be able to cover tight ends and running backs at a better than adequate level.
• BR1986FB

  Faneca signed a 1 year deal with the Cardinals
• Non

  

  no big surprise there with Whisenhunt and Grimm
• Non

  

  actually in discussing the 4-3 defense above I said you shouldn't have two big defensive tackles but that's not really true
  
  Minnesota does with the Williams brothers and there have been others like that, Adams and Siragusa for Baltimore
  
  there just won't be that much pressure up the middle, they may collapse the pocket against the pass just because of the push and getting their hands up and that sort of thing but the sacks will then come from the outside, Minnesota gets that with Allen and Edwards
• pkebker

  I understand what your saying, but the LBs that I would want on a football team should be able to play in both schemes. A LB should be able to rush the passer, drop in coverage, and stop the run. I think the transition from a 3-4 to a 4-3 is much more difficult for lineman than LBs
• BR1986FB

  There has been some "chatter" that the Browns may be close to obtaining a WR via trade. The teams I've heard that may be dealing are San Diego & Dallas.
• Laley23

  

  BR1986FB wrote: There has been some "chatter" that the Browns may be close to obtaining a WR via trade. The teams I've heard that may be dealing are San Diego & Dallas.

  Tell me it is Vincent Jackson.
• BR1986FB

  Laley23 wrote:

  BR1986FB wrote: There has been some "chatter" that the Browns may be close to obtaining a WR via trade. The teams I've heard that may be dealing are San Diego & Dallas.

  Tell me it is Vincent Jackson.

  I know that Patrick Crayton IS available for the Cowboys and Roy Williams is likely too since he's been a bust. For the Bolts, I'd imagine it would be Malcolm Floyd.
• Laley23

  

  BR1986FB wrote:

  Laley23 wrote:

  BR1986FB wrote: There has been some "chatter" that the Browns may be close to obtaining a WR via trade. The teams I've heard that may be dealing are San Diego & Dallas.

  Tell me it is Vincent Jackson.

  I know that Patrick Crayton IS available for the Cowboys and Roy Williams is likely too since he's been a bust. For the Bolts, I'd imagine it would be Malcolm Floyd.

  I figured. Not sure Id want to give up the necessary pick for Jackson anyway. I still think Id like Floyd over Crayton or Williams. The thing Williams has going is that he would probably be very cheap.
• BR1986FB

  Crayton has a knack for finding the end zone.
• BR1986FB

  To update, the Browns are currently looking at TWO veteran WR's, not ONE as previously thought. Not sure if it's via the trade route, free agency or both.
• big_hits24

  Torry Holt would not be a bad pick up even though he's kinda getting up there too in age...But he would provide good leadership and I think still has a little bit left in him.
• pkebker

  I'm impressed that the FO is still searching to fill holes in the roster. They have done an excellent job so far IMO.
  
  How would you rate the job the new FO has done? (With a letter grade). I'd give them a B+
• BR1986FB

  I thought somebody grabbed Holt recently? Terrell Owens and Coles (w/Bengals last year) are probably the best available FA's.
• dat dude

  Kevin Curtis is an option as well.
• jmog

  I'd rather sign M. Harrison than Coles, even with Harrison being out a whole year.
  
  Just my 2 pennies.
• BR1986FB

  dat dude wrote: Kevin Curtis is an option as well.

  Forgot about him. Not really a great list.
  
  I have a feeling they'd rather trade for someone than dive on the Terrell Owens "grenade." The rest of those guys really don't have much left, IMO.
• BR1986FB

  jmog wrote: I'd rather sign M. Harrison than Coles, even with Harrison being out a whole year.
  
  Just my 2 pennies.

  Pass. We already have "Dirty Harry" Rogers. We don't need "Quick Draw" Harrison.
  
  Surprisingly, I thought they would dump Shaun Rogers but my understanding is that depending on length of suspension he will be a Brown this year. Kinda disappointing to me.
• wes_mantooth

  

  I hope one of them is Carl Pickens....he still has something left in the tank.
• BR1986FB

  Holt signed with New England.
• royal_k

  

  Out of all those recievers mentioned, I'd like Floyd and Crayton the best.
• OhioStatePride2003

  BR1986FB wrote: Holt signed with New England.

  Do you really think Cleveland will make a run at Terrel Owens? Not implying you've said one way or another, just an honest question. And of the two Cowboy receivers rumored to be on the market, which one would you prefer? Like say if the scenario Crayton was offered for a 3rd Round pick next year? And Williams was offered for a 5th-7th Round next year, and a player? (Maybe Rodgers)