Reds at Indians...Game 2

• Ironman92

  

  sherm03;1641666 wrote:It may be lackluster, but he attempts to stretch. Especially on balls where he has to make a scoop on the throw from third or short, he usually has a decent stretch.
  
  My point in my response was that maybe we shouldn't get on Frazier for not stretching since he isn't a regular first baseman.

  No, not what I'm speaking of. On plays from around the plate he will catch the ball with his glove in a direct line between 1st and 2nd base.
  
  Help me out mhs95
• Ironman92

  

  sherm03;1641666 wrote:It may be lackluster, but he attempts to stretch. Especially on balls where he has to make a scoop on the throw from third or short, he usually has a decent stretch.
  
  My point in my response was that maybe we shouldn't get on Frazier for not stretching since he isn't a regular first baseman.

  This is baseball, first baseman stretches towards the ball. Be a little different if he was a moving 2nd baseman turning 2 with a runner barreling at him.
  
  Force out at 3rd and he'd have to stretch
• sherm03

  

  Ironman92;1641673 wrote:No, not what I'm speaking of. On plays from around the plate he will catch the ball with his glove in a direct line between 1st and 2nd base.
  
  Help me out mhs95

  I understand what you're saying. I'm saying that Votto will stretch pretty well on some close plays when the ball is coming from the left side of the infield.
  

  Ironman92;1641674 wrote:This is baseball, first baseman stretches towards the ball. Be a little different if he was a moving 2nd baseman turning 2 with a runner barreling at him.
  
  Force out at 3rd and he'd have to stretch

  I get that. I understand how you are supposed to play first base. I'm just saying if this was our everyday first baseman, yes, then you have a bitch about him not stretching as well. This is a third baseman. He's not used to playing this position...so cut him some slack. And yes, a force out at third and Frazier would have to stretch. How often does that really happen during the course of as season?
• Ironman92

  

  sherm03;1641678 wrote:I understand what you're saying. I'm saying that Votto will stretch pretty well on some close plays when the ball is coming from the left side of the infield.
  
  
  
  I get that. I understand how you are supposed to play first base. I'm just saying if this was our everyday first baseman, yes, then you have a bitch about him not stretching as well. This is a third baseman. He's not used to playing this position...so cut him some slack. And yes, a force out at third and Frazier would have to stretch. How often does that really happen during the course of as season?

  I get what you are saying but I can't agree on not stretching at first if you are a big league player. Just my opinion.
  
  Have a good day.
  
  Reds win!
• HitsRus

  

  While I understand that you guys are mostly Reds homers, I thought it strange that there was a half a dozen posts on a meaningless challenge play in the 9th inning, but no commentary on the play that completely altered the flow of the game . Now I'm not saying that the Indians win this game, but most certainly, Cueto does not survive the 7th without the assist provided by the Reds' bullpen (and not in the usual way a bullpen bails out a starter).
  
  I posted this on the Tribe thread...but thought it would be good discussion material for today......
  
  
  I found it hard to believe the explanation given by Rick Manning in the booth, that the umpire only has the authority to stop the game in the case of a power outtage or a player injury. You would think they(umpires) would have the authority to right anything that disrupts or destroys the integrity of the game....and that clearly disrupted the integrity of that game. It is bad enough if something random like a ball hitting a bird changes a play...but unacceptable that a thrown ball, whatever its origin, decieves runners or fielders such that play is corrupted. If MLB truly does not have a rule that covers that situation, they need to make one in a hurry, because there is apparently nothing to stop errant balls thrown purposely from the stands or 'by accident' from the bullpen from altering the outcome of a game.
  Moreso, and especially since you have a high tribunal sitting in NY that reviews call challenges, it most certainly is possible to have called them in for 'help'. It should be about getting things right.
  

  [When a situation is not covered, Rule 9.01(c) comes into play. That rule gives the umpire authority to rule on any point not specifically covered in the Rules. In such instances the umpire is instructed to use "common sense and fair play."/QUOTE]
  
  if that is a rule, then I'm furious that Francona did not protest the call...in fact, I thought it was negligent to just take it up the ass and accept the crew chiefs explanation without so much as asking the umpires to confer.

• SportsAndLady

  

  ^butthurt is obvious
• HitsRus

  

  ^^^Really?...can't we have adult conversations?
  
  
  I put it out there for a legitimate baseball discussion.
• thavoice

  SportsAndLady;1641702 wrote:^butthurt is obvious

  They are cleveland fans. They get butthurt no matter what happens.
  
  The reds threads are usually entertaining as we dont get our panties in a wad when someone rips on a player or play.
• sherm03

  

  I've talked to a few of my friends about this Hits. But let's explore how that inning plays out if the play IS stopped.
  On the double, the runner at third scores no matter what. We're at 6-2. If you watch it again, the second ball messes with Negron who double clutches and is not able to throw out Gomes at second. If that ball isn't there, the play is made at second and the Indians have a runner at third with 1 out. We'll say the next batter gets the run in. Takes us to 6-3. The last batter of the inning gets out and we finish the 7th at 6-3 instead of 6-2. Assuming that it takes some of the wind out of the Reds sails...and we'll say the Reds don't score anything else. And even if Cueto doesn't come out for the 8th...you would then see Broxton and Chapman, a duo that has basically shut teams down this year. I don't remember the stats, but the Reds very rarely lose after leading at the end of the 7th and it's because of those two.
  
  The play was strange. It was odd. But it effected both teams in a way. Again, I watched it several times and Gomes was meat if Negron didn't get confused by the extra ball and double clutch. Even if we go a step further and say Gomes was safe and both of those guys get around, it's still 6-4 and it comes back to Broxton and Chapman shutting teams down in the 8th and the 9th.
  
  Now I'm not saying I wouldn't have been mad if things were reversed. But sometimes, as a fan, you have to realize when your team is getting beat bad and when a play like that wouldn't really matter. In my opinion, that's why Francona didn't argue more about it.
• Ironman92

  

  In all fairness, even though it was a freak accidental happening....once the runners was safe at 2nd and runner safely on 3rd...... The extra ball was a distraction and I'd been fine with a stop in play by the umps.
  
  The whole surrounding of this oddity is about 1 in 1 trillion.
  
  But I still lay some communicative blame to the 3rd base coach.
  
  Cueto may very well not make it out of the inning and definitely doesn't get a complete game but the Indians having a 4 and a 7 pitch inning was insanely terrible in trying to get Cueto out of the game or rally.
• wildcats20

  

  Play should have been called once the runner was safe at 2nd. It wasn't and Tito going out to argue wouldn't have changed anything.
• HitsRus

  

  It's somewhat humorous that Reds' fans think I'm 'butthurt' when I'm only putting this out for discussion on what should be done (as a manager) and what MLB should do when things happen that corrupt the integrity of the play on the field.
  
  I really don't care so much about the outcome in terms of the Tribe, and Sherm's elaborate scenario of the double clutch and the play on Gomes at second etc etc.
  
  What if the Reds' 2nd baseman picked up the wrong ball and tried to make a play with it while Gomes and everybody else circled the bases, would you be so accepting?
  
  The point I'm making is on any given day, any thing can happen and that MLB needs a better explanation than "there's nothing we can do." to handle this type of situation. There appears to be a rule that could have been applied in this case...that was quoted above ... that could have/should have been applied...and on that basis allowed Francona to play the game under protest. That's not being 'butthurt' that's the right and duty of a manager (Indians, Reds or otherwise) to protect his team for misapplied or incorrectly interpreted rules. If it would have disadvantaged the Reds, I would have expected the very same from their manager.
  Further, if there is some ambiguity in how to handle a situation like this, they need to clear it up before a fan picks up on this and throws a ball out in the field while a ball is in play,...or a dog gets loose at puppyloosa, or any one of a number of things that can happen. "There's nothing we can do" is a poor excuse.
• SportsAndLady

  

  ^lmao, yeah you keep bringing up the play to protect the integrity of baseball. You don't care about the outcome of the game or that it negatively effected the Indians.
  
  Riiiiight.
  
  We can't talk about a play in this game that happened during a blowout, yet you can keep harping on a play that happened during a blowout. Did I get that?
• vball10set

  Sorry, hits, no matter how much I may agree with you and how you may try and spin it, it sounds like sour grapes--especially when posted on a thread dedicated to Reds fans.
• SportsAndLady

  

  vball10set;1641869 wrote:Sorry, hits, no matter how much I may agree with you and how you may try and spin it, it sounds like sour grapes--especially when posted on a thread dedicated to Reds fans.

  No, no, no. He is just trying to protect the structural integrity of baseball.
• like_that

  

  thavoice;1641798 wrote:They are cleveland fans. They get butthurt no matter what happens.
  
  The reds threads are usually entertaining as we dont get our panties in a wad when someone rips on a player or play.

  LOL, I don't give a shit about the play, the Indians got their asses kicked, but this is so far from the truth. Even funnier it's coming from a guy who jumps states to root for teams.
• Con_Alma

  Br0 for 4 will be back in the lineup tonight for the Indians batting 6th and will be playing left field of all place.:huh:
• Ironman92

  

  HitsRus;1641867 wrote:It's somewhat humorous that Reds' fans think I'm 'butthurt' when I'm only putting this out for discussion on what should be done (as a manager) and what MLB should do when things happen that corrupt the integrity of the play on the field.
  
  I really don't care so much about the outcome in terms of the Tribe, and Sherm's elaborate scenario of the double clutch and the play on Gomes at second etc etc.
  
  What if the Reds' 2nd baseman picked up the wrong ball and tried to make a play with it while Gomes and everybody else circled the bases, would you be so accepting?
  
  The point I'm making is on any given day, any thing can happen and that MLB needs a better explanation than "there's nothing we can do." to handle this type of situation. There appears to be a rule that could have been applied in this case...that was quoted above ... that could have/should have been applied...and on that basis allowed Francona to play the game under protest. That's not being 'butthurt' that's the right and duty of a manager (Indians, Reds or otherwise) to protect his team for misapplied or incorrectly interpreted rules. If it would have disadvantaged the Reds, I would have expected the very same from their manager.
  Further, if there is some ambiguity in how to handle a situation like this, they need to clear it up before a fan picks up on this and throws a ball out in the field while a ball is in play,...or a dog gets loose at puppyloosa, or any one of a number of things that can happen. "There's nothing we can do" is a poor excuse.

  Had he picked up the wrong ball it would've been even better lol....that play was zanier than RJ hitting that bird on his pitch
• Ironman92

  

  Con_Alma;1641878 wrote:Br0 for 4 will be back in the lineup tonight for the Indians batting 6th and will be playing left field of all place.:huh:

  Swisher?
  
  Not familiar with your nicknames
  
  Some Reds translations....
  
  A swinging pop out to the pitcher, catcher or 1st baseman is known as a Heisey
  
  If we say gritty, we are speaking of the overplayed Skip Schumaker
  
  Todd father is Frazier
  
  Meso....Mesoraco
  
  Creeper is announcer Chris Welsh
  
  Vacuum jokes of sucking are always about J.J. Hoover
  
  Alfredo Simon = Big Pasta
• Con_Alma

  Yeah. Swish. Bummmer of a year for him. Known as Brohio in the clubhouse. I call him Br0 for 4.
  
  I probably should have put it in the Indians thread.
• Ironman92

  

  Con_Alma;1641885 wrote:Yeah. Swish. Bummmer of a year for him. Known as Brohio in the clubhouse. I call him Br0 for 4.
  
  I probably should have put it in the Indians thread.

  It's fine....now we know
• HitsRus

  

  I posted it on both threads because Reds fans saw the play and to get more discussion on whether people thought this play was called correctly or if there should be a specific rule to give some discretion to the umpires when an event corrupts play. Secondarily, I asked if people thought that as a manager, Francona handled that correctly. Would you expect your manager to take that so easily? What would Earl Weaver do?
  
  
  
  Apparently the quality of discussion here is such that no one can rise above their partisanship to discuss one of the weirdest plays that we have seen in a long time. I should have known better. If the situation was reversed, I'd be happy for the Tribe, but I'd think the same.
  
  Fine, I'm done.
  
  
  ...and no, S&L you didn't get it, but I'll help you out. You talked about a routine play in the 9th inning of a blowout, but no comments on a situation that you've never seen before.
• HitsRus

  

  Had he picked up the wrong ball it would've been even better lol....that play was zanier than RJ hitting that bird on his pitch

  
  
  It was.. and that was the kind of discussion I was looking for....and how do you call/handle this kind of unusual play?
• Ironman92

  

  HitsRus;1641900 wrote:It was.. and that was the kind of discussion I was looking for....and how do you call/handle this kind of unusual play?

  Just by whatever the rule is. If I'm in charge of the world there would've been a runner at 2nd and 3rd and the bullpens would be so that extreme oddity couldn't happen.
  
  If a fan tries it to get a similar result....he/she tossed and never allowed to return. Cannot benefit either team....such as Reds getting out at 3rd or Indians somehow being age at home after an error by Reds or whatever....umps call
• vball10set

  thavoice;1641798 wrote:They are cleveland fans. They get butthurt no matter what happens.
  
  The reds threads are usually entertaining as we dont get our panties in a wad when someone rips on a player or play.

  I'll bet the other Reds fans are just happy as shit that you're one too...what a goof.