"ALL-NFL" Mock Draft?
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HeathAlum21
I didn't say anything about Superbowls. I said overall performance in the post season. Just take a look at his stats in the playoffs, and you will see what I am talking about. Even during the Superbowl run, he didn't perform up to "Peyton Manning's standards".Laley23 wrote:
I dont get that argument at all. If Manning wins a SB this year he is the same freaking QB as if he loses. However, if he wins people will vault him to the best ever and if he loses people will say "eh, top 5 but not the best"HeathAlum21 wrote: I can't take Peyton Manning because of his lack of post season success. I would take a QB though.
It just makes no sense. It isnt even like he is Marino, the guy HAS A SUPER BOWL. I guess its a compliment, he is soooo good, people expect(ed) him to have 3 already with a few more to come.
For the record. Id take Manning first overall. -
Laley23
I COMPLETELY agree that he has struggled big time in some playoff games. I am probably the biggest Colts fan on the site, but like to consider myself unbiased.HeathAlum21 wrote:
I didn't say anything about Superbowls. I said overall performance in the post season. Just take a look at his stats in the playoffs, and you will see what I am talking about. Even during the Superbowl run, he didn't perform up to "Peyton Manning's standards".
I just get tired of the playoff argument. If your arguing his stats in the playoffs than I agree, I took it as the old "he doesnt have the SB rings" argument which is just dumb.
I do agree that his playoffs have been lacking vs his regular seasons. But he can amend it all this year with a SB run.
I guess I mis-understood you. -
NateI take Manning also.
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Cha'DIchJim Brown
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Al CaponeDonte Stallworth
O.J. Simpson
Ray Carruth
Ray Lewis
How is that for a killer lineup? -
NNN
You forgot Jim Tyrer, who would be in the Hall of Fame, on the All-Time Team, and regarded as one of the best ever if not for the circumstances of his demise.Al Capone wrote: Donte Stallworth
O.J. Simpson
Ray Carruth
Ray Lewis
How is that for a killer lineup? -
BCSbunkI would draft John Hannah with my first selection.
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Sonofanump
If picking later in the first round I would look at Jim Parker, Tony Munoz or Orlando Pace.BCSbunk wrote: I would draft John Hannah with my first selection. -
BlueDevil11Tim Couch
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DaBrowns41The fact that Jim Brown wasn't mentioned on this first page is frustrating. The best RB/FB to ever play the game of football, and the one poster didn't even mention him on the 75th Anniversary team? Are you fucking kidding?
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NNNNNN wrote: For what it's worth, here's what the NFL 75th Anniversary Team looked like.
FBs
[size=xx-large]Jim Brown[/size]
Marion Motley
Bronko Nagurski
You fail.DaBrowns41 wrote: The fact that Jim Brown wasn't mentioned on this first page is frustrating. The best RB/FB to ever play the game of football, and the one poster didn't even mention him on the 75th Anniversary team? Are you fucking kidding? -
DaBrowns41
That was my fault.NNN wrote:NNN wrote: For what it's worth, here's what the NFL 75th Anniversary Team looked like.
FBs
[size=xx-large]Jim Brown[/size]
Marion Motley
Bronko Nagurski
You fail.DaBrowns41 wrote: The fact that Jim Brown wasn't mentioned on this first page is frustrating. The best RB/FB to ever play the game of football, and the one poster didn't even mention him on the 75th Anniversary team? Are you fucking kidding?
Even though he was technically a fullback, however, he should be listed as a halfback because that's the role he played.
But yeah, that was my fault. -
NNNThen take it up with the guys who selected the team to begin with (HOFers, NFL executives, ex-players, and historians). They said the only real hand-wringing was whether or not John Mackey should have made it on.
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Al CaponeJim Brown wouldnt do shit in todays nfl. He got by back in the day because he was just as big as the lineman. He would be another Ron Dayne in todays game.
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DaBrowns41
Damn. I thought you actually made that yourself. That's disappointing.NNN wrote: Then take it up with the guys who selected the team to begin with (HOFers, NFL executives, ex-players, and historians). They said the only real hand-wringing was whether or not John Mackey should have made it on.
I guess we can stop discussing it then. -
NNN
Three things.Al Capone wrote: Jim Brown wouldnt do shit in todays nfl. He got by back in the day because he was just as big as the lineman. He would be another Ron Dayne in todays game.
1) No one seems to knock Eddie George on that basis (since he was massive compared to the rest of the running backs in the league and defensive personnel)
2) EVERY NFL player from the 30s, 40s, 50s, and 60s admits that weights, particularly for linemen, were exaggerated downward to a great extent. Gino Marchetti, for example, listed around 240 for his entire career, then admitted after his playing days ended that he'd never been below somewhere in the 270s.
3) If Jim Brown played today, he would have access to modern medicine, modern nutrition, and modern strength training. So would every player from days gone by. On the other hand, putting a modern player in the game of the late 50s would mean they'd also have spent their high school AND college careers playing both sides of the ball. Switching sides at the NFL level was substantially more common then than it is now; if a modern running back couldn't hack it back then, he'd be gone completely unless he could play linebacker. -
DaBrowns41
Excellent post.NNN wrote:
Three things.Al Capone wrote: Jim Brown wouldnt do shit in todays nfl. He got by back in the day because he was just as big as the lineman. He would be another Ron Dayne in todays game.
1) No one seems to knock Eddie George on that basis (since he was massive compared to the rest of the running backs in the league and defensive personnel)
2) EVERY NFL player from the 30s, 40s, 50s, and 60s admits that weights, particularly for linemen, were exaggerated downward to a great extent. Gino Marchetti, for example, listed around 240 for his entire career, then admitted after his playing days ended that he'd never been below somewhere in the 270s.
3) If Jim Brown played today, he would have access to modern medicine, modern nutrition, and modern strength training. So would every player from days gone by. On the other hand, putting a modern player in the game of the late 50s would mean they'd also have spent their high school AND college careers playing both sides of the ball. Switching sides at the NFL level was substantially more common then than it is now; if a modern running back couldn't hack it back then, he'd be gone completely unless he could play linebacker. -
NNN
My only real issue with the team had to do with Reggie White over Bruce Smith (but then, how many people would make that switch?).DaBrowns41 wrote:
Damn. I thought you actually made that yourself. That's disappointing.NNN wrote: Then take it up with the guys who selected the team to begin with (HOFers, NFL executives, ex-players, and historians). They said the only real hand-wringing was whether or not John Mackey should have made it on.
I guess we can stop discussing it then.
I'd also like to do a fairly intensive study into exactly how good Dick Butkus actually was. With Deacon Jones and Night Train Lane, both of whom have very similar stories from opposing players about how loudmouthed and intimidating they were, we can see a great deal of production and a great deal of plays being made that go beyond "normal". Butkus....if you strip away the stories and focus entirely on the play, doesn't seem to compare. I guess that's another project to tack onto the end of the current list. -
DaBrowns41
I think that White and Smith can be interchangeable. Both were amazing talents in the NFL. I think I'd personally give the nod to Bruce, as he was the biggest part of a Bills defense that was dominant in the 90's, but you can't say that White's time with Philly, and more notably with Green Bay doesn't have a good argument.NNN wrote:
My only real issue with the team had to do with Reggie White over Bruce Smith (but then, how many people would make that switch?).DaBrowns41 wrote:
Damn. I thought you actually made that yourself. That's disappointing.NNN wrote: Then take it up with the guys who selected the team to begin with (HOFers, NFL executives, ex-players, and historians). They said the only real hand-wringing was whether or not John Mackey should have made it on.
I guess we can stop discussing it then.
I'd also like to do a fairly intensive study into exactly how good Dick Butkus actually was. With Deacon Jones and Night Train Lane, both of whom have very similar stories from opposing players about how loudmouthed and intimidating they were, we can see a great deal of production and a great deal of plays being made that go beyond "normal". Butkus....if you strip away the stories and focus entirely on the play, doesn't seem to compare. I guess that's another project to tack onto the end of the current list.
I'm curious about your study about Butkus. If you remember, when you're done with it, do you mind posting it on here, or PMing it to me? -
NNN
What pushes it toward Smith and not White is that the great majority of Smith's career was spent in a 3-4 defense, where the DE is designed to anchor the perimeter rather than make the plays. White was in a 4-3 for most of his career.DaBrowns41 wrote: I think that White and Smith can be interchangeable. Both were amazing talents in the NFL. I think I'd personally give the nod to Bruce, as he was the biggest part of a Bills defense that was dominant in the 90's, but you can't say that White's time with Philly, and more notably with Green Bay doesn't have a good argument.
I'm curious about your study about Butkus. If you remember, when you're done with it, do you mind posting it on here, or PMing it to me? -
DaBrowns41
And not many people realize that.NNN wrote:
What pushes it toward Smith and not White is that the great majority of Smith's career was spent in a 3-4 defense, where the DE is designed to anchor the perimeter rather than make the plays. White was in a 4-3 for most of his career.DaBrowns41 wrote: I think that White and Smith can be interchangeable. Both were amazing talents in the NFL. I think I'd personally give the nod to Bruce, as he was the biggest part of a Bills defense that was dominant in the 90's, but you can't say that White's time with Philly, and more notably with Green Bay doesn't have a good argument.
I'm curious about your study about Butkus. If you remember, when you're done with it, do you mind posting it on here, or PMing it to me?
In a 34, the DE's aren't supposed to be play makers. Do we want them to get to the QB, of course, but their job is to play well in space, stuff the run, and take up blockers to allow the LB's to make the play. Smith was a play maker and sack master, despite being a guy who demanded a double team, which was just another reason why those defenses were dominant. -
KnightRyder
those guys are all good, but i find it odd that terry bradshaw is no where on that listSonofanump wrote: How many teams? If I had a top 4 pick, I would go QB. I am sure you could come up with a lot more premier running backs.
Young- Let's find him a helmet that prevents concussions
Manning
Elway
Marino
Next five maybe late in the first round
Unitas
Moon
Favre
Warner
Kelly
The middle of the road guys
Tarkenton
Staubach
Fouts
Brady
Mcnabb
Starr
Theisman
Dawson
Aikman
Simms -
BCSbunk
It came down to either Munoz or Hannah for me. Not a easy decision for the first pick in an all time NFL draft.Sonofanump wrote:
If picking later in the first round I would look at Jim Parker, Tony Munoz or Orlando Pace.BCSbunk wrote: I would draft John Hannah with my first selection. -
Sonofanump
I'll draft on who has best ability not who had the best supporting cast?KnightRyder wrote:
those guys are all good, but i find it odd that terry bradshaw is no where on that listSonofanump wrote: How many teams? If I had a top 4 pick, I would go QB. I am sure you could come up with a lot more premier running backs.
Young- Let's find him a helmet that prevents concussions
Manning
Elway
Marino
Next five maybe late in the first round
Unitas
Moon
Favre
Warner
Kelly
The middle of the road guys
Tarkenton
Staubach
Fouts
Brady
Mcnabb
Starr
Theisman
Dawson
Aikman
Simms -
NNN
Bradshaw would be there far ahead of Aikman and especially Theismann, so your comment is intriguing.Sonofanump wrote: I'll draft on who has best ability not who had the best supporting cast?
You also failed to list any of the pre-1955 QBs, who certainly had to have a great deal of overall ability. Consider that Benny Friedman, Sammy Baugh, Arnie Herber, and Cecil Isbell all played with a ball that looked more like a watermelon than a football. All also had to play both sides of the ball, as did Sid Luckman and (in the AAFC) Otto Graham.