Similar Plays...2 different Calls...A Super Bowl and National Title was Decided

• thavoice

  YEah..holding shoudla been called on that last play. I didnt know it but that is something all teams have in their playbook at the end. It is a safety no matter what...and the other team will not accept the penalty because it is a rekick and will take more time off the clock.
• Fly4Fun

  

  I am of the understanding that holding in the end zone does not stop the clock, correct?
  
  Is this one of those situations where the competition committee will evaluate and change the rule for the future or will they just leave it be?
• Sonofanump

  Fly4Fun;1382042 wrote:I am of the understanding that holding in the end zone does not stop the clock, correct?

  Correct.
  

  Fly4Fun;1382042 wrote:Is this one of those situations where the competition committee will evaluate and change the rule for the future or will they just leave it be?

  
  
  They could look at it, I would be surprised if they changed it. Return kick is the only foul that I can think of that stops the clock.
• thavoice

  Fly4Fun;1382042 wrote:I am of the understanding that holding in the end zone does not stop the clock, correct?
  
  Is this one of those situations where the competition committee will evaluate and change the rule for the future or will they just leave it be?

  Yeah. The clock would be stopped, but would start again on the snap of the replaying of the down. So in reality the punter could run around again, or play it straight up and punt it. In any case, more time runs off the clock. There was 4-5 seconds I think left...the rekick would have taken all of that again.
  
  As far as the competition committe evaluating it. Well....to be honest I havent seen that done before.
  
  SF could have accepted the penalty, and had the rekick from half the distance. They then COULD have called a fair catch and free kick. It is a little used option. You can even do it if the time has been expired. The kicker gets a free kick from the spot of the fair catch and the other team cannot rush it.
  
  So if the penalty accepted, and Balt kicks it they could have done a free kick from about teh 50 or so.
  
  On the flip side of that...balt could have ran out the clock again with the punter running around.
• Sonofanump

  thavoice;1382060 wrote:Yeah. The clock would be stopped, but would start again on the snap of the replaying of the down.

  The clock does not stop on a holding foul.
• Pick6

  

  thavoice;1382060 wrote:Yeah. The clock would be stopped, but would start again on the snap of the replaying of the down. So in reality the punter could run around again, or play it straight up and punt it. In any case, more time runs off the clock. There was 4-5 seconds I think left...the rekick would have taken all of that again.
  
  As far as the competition committe evaluating it. Well....to be honest I havent seen that done before.
  
  SF could have accepted the penalty, and had the rekick from half the distance. They then COULD have called a fair catch and free kick. It is a little used option. You can even do it if the time has been expired. The kicker gets a free kick from the spot of the fair catch and the other team cannot rush it.
  
  So if the penalty accepted, and Balt kicks it they could have done a free kick from about teh 50 or so.
  
  On the flip side of that...balt could have ran out the clock again with the punter running around.

  No. A penalty in the endzone is a safety. They wouldnt have declined the hold and points.
• Fly4Fun

  

  thavoice;1382060 wrote:Yeah. The clock would be stopped, but would start again on the snap of the replaying of the down. So in reality the punter could run around again, or play it straight up and punt it. In any case, more time runs off the clock. There was 4-5 seconds I think left...the rekick would have taken all of that again.
  
  As far as the competition committe evaluating it. Well....to be honest I havent seen that done before.
  
  SF could have accepted the penalty, and had the rekick from half the distance. They then COULD have called a fair catch and free kick. It is a little used option. You can even do it if the time has been expired. The kicker gets a free kick from the spot of the fair catch and the other team cannot rush it.
  
  So if the penalty accepted, and Balt kicks it they could have done a free kick from about teh 50 or so.
  
  On the flip side of that...balt could have ran out the clock again with the punter running around.

  It's a safety if they accept the penalty, not a replay of the down. It's a safety because it was a hold in the endzone.
  
  However, if it was not in the endzone in would be a replay of the down if they accept.
• Fly4Fun

  

  And while it doesn't affect the clock, the hold in the endzone. I think the problem some of the people have is that it was such an obvious hold that it helps to illustrate the officiating in the game (That with the no penalty on defensive holding then also not kicking a player out for shoving an official.)
• thavoice

  Fly4Fun;1382086 wrote:It's a safety if they accept the penalty, not a replay of the down. It's a safety because it was a hold in the endzone.
  
  However, if it was not in the endzone in would be a replay of the down if they accept.

  Well I meant if the holding wasnt in the end zone, but in this case it WAS in the end zone so yes you are correct. The holding presumably did take a little bit of extra time off the clock. I didnt look too closely at it to see how much though.
• lhslep134

  

  thavoice;1382097 wrote:I didnt look too closely at it to see how much though.

  I went back to look and I'd say probably 3 or 4 seconds. Definitely brilliant coaching to tell his guys to hold there.
• thavoice

  lhslep134;1382137 wrote:I went back to look and I'd say probably 3 or 4 seconds. Definitely brilliant coaching to tell his guys to hold there.

  Yeah, most def it is. On one of the morning shows a former player said that all teams have that in their playbook on a punt at the very end of the game. Maybe not blatantly tackle guys but hold them so they dont get through and it is no big deal if it is called as then they can waste more time.
  
  I would say one way to slow that down would be to let the return team to accept the penalty as a re kick OR at the end of the run back. Right now if it is holding before the kick it is either rekick or decline and take the ball where it ended.
  
  Thing is.....even in this case the result is the same....a safety and kick fro the 20.
  
  I could see them tweaking the rule though. Maybe in a case like this the penalty for holding in the end zone would be a safety, and half the distance on the free kick? This rule could be in affect in the last 2 minutes of either half. They do have some other rules that are dependant on the time so why not this one?
  
  We have seen teams take safeties before. That is nothing new. BUT with this blatant holding and such maybe the rule change could be the safety, half the distance on the free kick.
  And in other instances, beacuse we all know that they wanna spurn offense, allow teams to make them rekick or add to the end of the play if the hold is before the kick
• Pick6

  

  A rule shouldnt be changed due to a smart coaching move. However, a referee should do his job the entire game.
• thavoice

  Pick6;1382190 wrote:A rule shouldnt be changed due to a smart coaching move. However, a referee should do his job the entire game.

  The rule wouldnt change, it would be the penalty that would be changed a little bit.
  
  Many a rule change has come about when the league deems a team took advantage/or could take advantage of a current rule. Rules are changed at times when things like this happen.
  
  Fumbling the ball forward and such has a rule that was changed when the raidres did the fumbleruski, the subsitution rules.
  
  ;time runoff on an offensive penalty late in the game when the penalty stops.
  
  Roughing the kicker rule hs changed over the years as well to allow the yardage on the KO if they wanted.
  
  It wouldnt necessarily be a rule change, it would be the INFRACTION changed on the rule already in place.   It happens often in the NFL when they feel that a rule is/could be abused;.
• Sonofanump

  thavoice;1382150 wrote:I would say one way to slow that down would be to let the return team to accept the penalty as a re kick OR at the end of the run back. Right now if it is holding before the kick it is either rekick or decline and take the ball where it ended.

  Again, no. It can be tacked on to the end of the play if A fouls during scrimmage kick that is not a scoring attempt.
• Fly4Fun

  

  Pick6;1382190 wrote:A rule shouldnt be changed due to a smart coaching move. However, a referee should do his job the entire game.

  The problem is because the used the rule in such a fashion that completely distorted what the game is. Taking a safety intentionally, not a big deal. Intentionally and blatantly holding (one guy even just bearhugging a 49er) to waste time while entertaining, does seem to challenge the notions of what should be acceptable.
  
  Essentially a team was using what would be penalties against them to their advantage, that shows that there is a flaw in the penalty as currently written in my opinion.
• Laley23

  

  They review enough shit to be able to change the rule of a foul int he endzone. You cant blow it dead because more shit could happen both ways on the play. But if the result of the play did end up being the safety, you could review it and put time back on the clock to when the flag was thrown.
  
  Another option...as an OR or ALSO to the above would be to tack the penalty yardage on top of the safety. So they kick off from the 10 and you are likely catching the punt around your own 35.
• Fly4Fun

  

  Laley23;1382454 wrote:They review enough shit to be able to change the rule of a foul int he endzone. You cant blow it dead because more shit could happen both ways on the play. But if the result of the play did end up being the safety, you could review it and put time back on the clock to when the flag was thrown.
  
  Another option...as an OR or ALSO to the above would be to tack the penalty yardage on top of the safety. So they kick off from the 10 and you are likely catching the punt around your own 35.

  Personally I think just putting time back on the clock is the easiest as far as NFL purposes.
• thavoice

  Laley23;1382454 wrote:They review enough **** to be able to change the rule of a foul int he endzone. You cant blow it dead because more **** could happen both ways on the play. But if the result of the play did end up being the safety, you could review it and put time back on the clock to when the flag was thrown.
  
  Another option...as an OR or ALSO to the above would be to tack the penalty yardage on top of the safety. So they kick off from the 10 and you are likely catching the punt around your own 35.

  and that is what I was trying to say. In the last minute of the half/game if there is a holding in the end zone ya can accept it, get the safety AND half the distance on the kick. There are some other rules that are in affect only at the end of half/game so this isnt out of the norm. It wont solve everything, but makes them think more about doing such a thing. Free kick from the 10....it is POSSIBLE that you can fair catch the ball at your own 45 to midfield. You can either heave a hail mary OR do the fair catch/free kick. It is makeable from that distance.
• Sonofanump

  Why did this thread have to die down, it brought the lulz.