More on Tribe Attendance Woes

• HitsRus

  

  1 playoff trip since 2002. It hasn't been that great. Haven't threatened to make the playoffs since 2007

  Blaming the consumer for exercising their choice not to spend money. I can't agree with that.

  The "fans" never have to go if they don't want to. It's not their obligation. If people want to go see this team and like the experience, they should go. If they don't, they owe the ownership and players nothing.

  
  All great points and true. But let's not pretend that Cleveland has anything but fairweather fans. In fact even when there is fair weather, they don't show up.
  You can bitch all you want about it not being that great since 2007 when the team was within one game of the World Series....but a bad year, then a tear down and rebuild and two years later the team was back in contention. You can bitch and moan about "If the owner won't spend his money to put a winner on the field, why should I spend mine?"...but the bottom line is that the owner has put a contending team out there two years in a row....and you are STILL not showing up.
  It goes both ways. If you are not going to spend your money when the team is contending for first place, why should he spend his?
  In case you haven't noticed, the team has managed to win a few games and is threatening to climb to the top of the standings.
  
  I go to alot of games, and frankly, it is embarrassing seeing the empty seats. It is even more sad to see that the majority of fans are sitting in the cheap seats.... the empty loges, and empty club seats. That's just not good. I hated going to the Tiger's series and seeing barely 20, 000 in the stands....and alot of those people had driven down from Detroit.
  

  I have been to a Browns game almost every year because football is king.

  Yet people pay to see shit year after year...
• Footwedge

  Con Alma says... that I;ll spend my money on te product if I think the product is worth it. Well duh!. Collectively the fans think it.s not worth it. By definition, that describes to a T the definition of a shit fanbase.
  
  When Dolan trades away our double play combination in the near future....settling back to his 49 million salary range, the fans from Cleveland need to look in the mirror to see the whys and the wheretofors.
  
  Face it people
  
  
  ...as a baseball town, we blow...and we are responsible for the shit baseball to come.
• sleeper

  

  Commander of Awesome;1196056 wrote:Yet you rail on BR, makes sense. /sarcasm.

  BR has never been to a Browns game. Never. And has turned down free tickets. The comparison is absolutely broken.
• Commander of Awesome

  

  Says the guy who hasn't been a game in 8 yrs...if ever......
• ohiobucks1

  

  ^^^
  
  he probably would go if he had free tickets
• sleeper

  

  Commander of Awesome;1196175 wrote:Says the guy who hasn't been a game in 8 yrs...if ever......

  I've been to Tribe games before. I've even been to a World Series game before against the Braves. I'm not a big baseball fan.
• jordo212000

  

  HitsRus;1196115 wrote:All great points and true. But let's not pretend that Cleveland has anything but fairweather fans. In fact even when there is fair weather, they don't show up.
  You can bitch all you want about it not being that great since 2007 when the team was within one game of the World Series....but a bad year, then a tear down and rebuild and two years later the team was back in contention. You can bitch and moan about "If the owner won't spend his money to put a winner on the field, why should I spend mine?"...but the bottom line is that the owner has put a contending team out there two years in a row....and you are STILL not showing up.
  It goes both ways. If you are not going to spend your money when the team is contending for first place, why should he spend his?
  In case you haven't noticed, the team has managed to win a few games and is threatening to climb to the top of the standings.
  
  I go to alot of games, and frankly, it is embarrassing seeing the empty seats. It is even more sad to see that the majority of fans are sitting in the cheap seats.... the empty loges, and empty club seats. That's just not good. I hated going to the Tiger's series and seeing barely 20, 000 in the stands....and alot of those people had driven down from Detroit.
  

  I agree with this guy
• Con_Alma

  I don't know why anyone would be concered about others labeling a team's patorns as fairweather or fanatical. Call those that attend Indians' games whatever you like. In the end they are folks who enjoy taking in an MLB baseball game now and then.
• Con_Alma

  Footwedge;1196135 wrote:Con Alma says... that I;ll spend my money on te product if I think the product is worth it. Well duh!. Collectively the fans think it.s not worth it. By definition, that describes to a T the definition of a **** fanbase.
  
  When Dolan trades away our double play combination in the near future....settling back to his 49 million salary range, the fans from Cleveland need to look in the mirror to see the whys and the wheretofors.
  
  Face it people
  
  
  ...as a baseball town, we blow...and we are responsible for the **** baseball to come.

  The fans are never responsible for the product on the field. The fans/consumers are reactive to the product provided and how it compares to their entertainment wishes.
• Skyhook79

  

  sleeper;1196199 wrote:I've been to Tribe games before. I've even been to a World Series game before against the Braves. I'm not a big baseball fan.

  So you are a fair weather fan, got it.
• HitsRus

  

  ^^^so basically you are saying that Cleveland as a whole doesn't want baseball in Cleveland as the fans have reacted to a contending team and said they with their dollars that they are not going to support it. While you ( con alma) are right, reasonable sport fans are expected to support the team thru thick and thin. If they can't support the team when they are winning, then any reasonable owner cannot be held responsible or be expected to keep his product in such an unappreciative area.
  The sword cuts both directions. If a business owner cannot make money, or in the case of a civic minded owner...keep the losses minimal, he is either going to close down or move his product or to a more productive location. there are many who wish Dolan would sell the team...great...but realize that he owes nothing to unappreciative fans....and he has a right to receive fair value for his franchise even if that means moving the team.
• Raw Dawgin' it

  

  Skyhook79;1196290 wrote:So you are a fair weather fan, got it.

  lol ok troll.
• sleeper

  

  Skyhook79;1196290 wrote:So you are a fair weather fan, got it.

  I'm not a baseball fan. It's like being a fan of the Columbus Blue Jackets. I go to a game once in a blue moon and watch them on TV once in a blue moon. It wouldn't matter to me if they were terrible or winning Stanley Cups left and right.
• Con_Alma

  HitsRus;1196293 wrote:^^^so basically you are saying that Cleveland as a whole doesn't want baseball in Cleveland as the fans have reacted to a contending team and said they with their dollars that they are not going to support it. While you ( con alma) are right, reasonable sport fans are expected to support the team thru thick and thin. If they can't support the team when they are winning, then any reasonable owner cannot be held responsible or be expected to keep his product in such an unappreciative area.
  The sword cuts both directions. If a business owner cannot make money, or in the case of a civic minded owner...keep the losses minimal, he is either going to close down or move his product or to a more productive location. there are many who wish Dolan would sell the team...great...but realize that he owes nothing to unappreciative fans....and he has a right to receive fair value for his franchise even if that means moving the team.

  I disagree a little. I think Cleveland wants baseball but doesn't want to pay for the payroll in today's game. Other cities have low payrolls with MLB teams. That's where I see Cleveland sitting in the big league picture.
  
  Maybe reasonable fans support through thick and thin. I don't dispute that. I would say that the word fan s over applied. I don't think most people who attend pro sports are fanatical but rather people who enjoy the game, the team, the entertainment and like to go occasionally. They really like to go when significant success is being had. Those are not fanatical people and yet the are the people that make the difference in attendance at the end of the year.
  
  I agree if the owner can't make money he should be able to seek out options where he can. Shhhhh, don't tell anyone but the Dolans are making money with this team.
• hasbeen

  

  Skyhook79;1196290 wrote:So you are a fair weather fan, got it.

  Or simply his parents, maybe an uncle, took him to a World Series game when he was young. I don't think a 7 year old can be that big of a fair weather fan.
  
  If he said he went to a bunch of games in 2007 and hasn't been back, that would make sense.
• Mulva

  

  HitsRus;1195582 wrote:The front office obviously knows what it is doing even if us idiots don't think so.

  lol
  

  HitsRus;1196115 wrote:but the bottom line is that the owner has put a contending team out there two years in a row.

  lol again. The Indians were not a contending team last year. They had one of the 5 worst records in baseball over the last 4 months of the season.
  
  I don't think the Indians have great fans by any stretch, but I don't blame them at all for not buying in to this team. It just doesn't have the make of a legit contender. When you trade back to back Cy Young winners, you lose all credibility as being committed to winning.
  
  When 1 playoff appearance and 2 seasons above .500 in a decade gets you a promotion to team president, you lose all credibility of even caring.
  
  And when you go 50-67 over the final 4 months and a fast start turns out to be a total mirage, you can't blame the fans for not jumping on board after the same team (plus some garbage additions and a nice surprise in Derek Lowe) gets off to a similar start the next season.
  
  Attendance will spike for the upcoming series against Cinci and Pittsburgh though. I'd think they'll probably draw an average of at least 30k for those 2 series.
• hoops23

  

  Mulva;1197335 wrote:lol
  
  
  
  lol again. The Indians were not a contending team last year. They had one of the 5 worst records in baseball over the last 4 months of the season.
  
  I don't think the Indians have great fans by any stretch, but I don't blame them at all for not buying in to this team. It just doesn't have the make of a legit contender. When you trade back to back Cy Young winners, you lose all credibility as being committed to winning.
  
  When 1 playoff appearance and 2 seasons above .500 in a decade gets you a promotion to team president, you lose all credibility of even caring.
  
  And when you go 50-67 over the final 4 months and a fast start turns out to be a total mirage, you can't blame the fans for not jumping on board after the same team (plus some garbage additions and a nice surprise in Derek Lowe) gets off to a similar start the next season.
  
  Attendance will spike for the upcoming series against Cinci and Pittsburgh though. I'd think they'll probably draw an average of at least 30k for those 2 series.

  Very solid post. People ignore the poor success over the last 10 years.
• Footwedge

  Mulva;1197335 wrote:lol
  
  
  
  lol again. The Indians were not a contending team last year. They had one of the 5 worst records in baseball over the last 4 months of the season.
  
  I don't think the Indians have great fans by any stretch, but I don't blame them at all for not buying in to this team. It just doesn't have the make of a legit contender. When you trade back to back Cy Young winners, you lose all credibility as being committed to winning.
  
  When 1 playoff appearance and 2 seasons above .500 in a decade gets you a promotion to team president, you lose all credibility of even caring.
  
  And when you go 50-67 over the final 4 months and a fast start turns out to be a total mirage, you can't blame the fans for not jumping on board after the same team (plus some garbage additions and a nice surprise in Derek Lowe) gets off to a similar start the next season.
  
  Attendance will spike for the upcoming series against Cinci and Pittsburgh though. I'd think they'll probably draw an average of at least 30k for those 2 series.

  
  You trade away Cy Young pitchers because you cannot sign them when their contract ends. When your team doesn'
  t draw shit, you can't resign Cy Young pitchers. Would you consider it "committed to winnin" by letting them walk? (Belle, Thome Manny and others).
  
  Maybe if this town gave a crap about baseball, then ownership would pony up. As for the 50-67 record in finishing the season, that's what happens when all your players go down to injuries. I guess in your view, injuries don't count?
  
  Hits, BRF ad I remember the really crap teams..the 60's 70's, 80's and early nineties. The tribe drew 700,000 fans per season. Those teams lost 100 games pretty often.
  
  I remember crying every year as a young kid when all the talk was that the team was going to move. It was a miracle that thise teams didn't move. Over a 5 year period, our most revered player was a POS third baseman. Max Alvis. A 240 lifetime hitter.
  
  If I was Dolan. I would pull a Modell part 2. This town doesn't deserve major leaue baseball.
• Crimson streak

  

  Footwedge;1197439 wrote:You trade away Cy Young pitchers because you cannot sign them when their contract ends. When your team doesn'
  t draw ****, you can't resign Cy Young pitchers. Would you consider it "committed to winnin" by letting them walk? (Belle, Thome Manny and others).
  
  Maybe if this town gave a crap about baseball, then ownership would pony up. As for the 50-67 record in finishing the season, that's what happens when all your players go down to injuries. I guess in your view, injuries don't count?
  
  Hits, BRF ad I remember the really crap teams..the 60's 70's, 80's and early nineties. The tribe drew 700,000 fans per season. Those teams lost 100 games pretty often.
  
  I remember crying every year as a young kid when all the talk was that the team was going to move. It was a miracle that thise teams didn't move. Over a 5 year period, our most revered player was a POS third baseman. Max Alvis. A 240 lifetime hitter.
  
  If I was Dolan. I would pull a Modell part 2. This town doesn't deserve major leaue baseball.

  
  Please just stfu. Winning cures everything. If the tribe are in contention in August the place will be packed every night.
• HitsRus

  

  Tribe was in contention in August...though fading fast.
  
  Just a comparison of some teams and playoff appearances since 2001:
  Yanks ...10
  Red Sox, Braves, Cardinals...7
  Angels 6...Twins 6 (most in the early 2000's)
  Phillies 5
  a couple of teams at 4 and 3 appearances
  Indians , Tigers and White Sox ....2...as well as a host of others.
  
  Reds ...1 ( that was a lost wild card play in game)
  several teams at 1
  Pirates, Royals, Orioles, Nationals and Mariners 0
  
  
  Anybody notice a pattern among the 'top' teams in playoff appearances? LOL
• Footwedge

  Crimson streak;1197450 wrote:Please just stfu. Winning cures everything. If the tribe are in contention in August the place will be packed every night.

  Typical responce from a 21 year old. Read carefully...it's hard to win when your owner has no fan support. Do you think Hershiser, Dennis Martinez and Eddie Murray would come to Cleveland today? Case closed.
• Footwedge

  HitsRus;1197477 wrote:Tribe was in contention in August...though fading fast.
  
  Just a comparison of some teams and playoff appearances since 2001:
  Yanks ...10
  Red Sox, Braves, Cardinals...7
  Angels 6...Twins 6 (most in the early 2000's)
  Phillies 5
  a couple of teams at 4 and 3 appearances
  Indians , Tigers and White Sox ....2...as well as a host of others.
  
  Reds ...1 ( that was a lost wild card play in game)
  several teams at 1
  Pirates, Royals, Orioles, Nationals and Mariners 0
  [/unquote]
  
  My guess is that the attendance for the pathetic O's over that period was a lot higher than the tribe attendance was over the same period...less 2007.

• HitsRus

  

  ^^^^yup....and by quite a margin. Interestingly enough the Twins have steadily drawn over the years, playing mostly in the the baggie dome and no matter what the team's performance has been on the field. The past two years...only the Marlins....since moved to Miami...has drawn less than the Tribe.
• hoops23

  

  HitsRus;1197604 wrote:^^^^yup....and by quite a margin. Interestingly enough the Twins have steadily drawn over the years, playing mostly in the the baggie dome and no matter what the team's performance has been on the field. The past two years...only the Marlins....since moved to Miami...has drawn less than the Tribe.

  Weren't you the one with season tix griping that you would no longer purchase them because of how cheap Dolan was? Didn't you also state your group felt the same way?
• HitsRus

  

  Yep. That was 2 years ago. I was still seething over the Lee and Martinez trades. The team was in last or barely keeping pace with the Royals. I think objectively that you have to admit that the circumstances have changed. I still am critical of the organization and it's unwillingness to do/spend what is necessary to bring a winner. I still think that Dolan needs to pull the trigger( and take some risk) on deals that could make this franchise better. But as wedge alluded to in an earlier post, we were Indians fans back in the 60's 70's and 80's....and compared to then, this is a team to get a bit excited about.
  
  Do I think the owner could do more? hell yes. Is the front office doing pretty good considering the resources it has? hell yes. I am disappointed that the fans have abandoned this organization., I am disappointed that corporate/business support has dwindled. I'm just disappointed that '455' really doesn't mean much anymore. All of this is just a vicious negative cycle.
  
  The owner needs to show that he is committed to putting a winning product out there...and the fans needs to show they support it when he does.