Holmgren in Cleveland

• bulldog8

  ESPN analysts all feel that if Holmgren is hired as the president of football operations in Cleveland that Mangini would be fired shortly after. If so, look for the Browns to take another step backwards next year with another change in coaching. I'd like to see Holmgren hired, but hold on to Mangini and Ryan for another year and see what they can do with a real brain providing insight to all football operations. Having Holmgren, Mangini, and Ryan running the show in Cleveland would be a real recipe for improvement next year. However, these 1 year and done deals with head coaches in Cleveland only hurts the program because of the lack of consistency. Give someone a stinkin chance for once to make some progress.
• thedynasty1998

  

  It's impossible for the Browns to take another step backwards.
• devil1197

  bulldog, Cleveland isn't going to compete next year so you might as well bring in the FO help that is needed now and let them do what they think is best.
  
  Now, I do think Ryan will be kept as the DC no matter what happens. He is very good at what he does.
• Crimson_Streak

  i wonder if mangini is fired if rob ryan will still want to stay with cleveland?
• Mr. 300

  

  If he comes in, with the upcoming draft picks we have, why would he let Mangini go??? We are not going anywhere next year, so why not let Eric show what he can do with Holgrem.
• osu99

  Holmgren would most likely want HIS guy in there which spells doom for the Mangenius unless he does the best sell job of his life.
• hangonsloopy

  

  Based on what Mangini did with last years draft, in now way do I want him selecting our 11 picks this year. Now if he is still here but whoever the GM is controls the draft, I could live with that.
• shook_17

  

  well if holmgrem comes in i bet you weis does too. they have the same agent. and laMante will speak highly of weis. which could be very good for the development of brady quinn.
• osu99

  If Holmgren comes and Mangini stays what will happen when the Walsh and Belichick/Parcells coaching trees collide? Will it signal the end of the world?
• hoops23

  

  hangonsloopy wrote: Based on what Mangini did with last years draft, in now way do I want him selecting our 11 picks this year. Now if he is still here but whoever the GM is controls the draft, I could live with that.

  Hmm, I'm still not seeing much wrong with the draft???
• hasbeen

  

  To reiterate other posters:
  Holmgren with Mangini, Ryan, and Weiss could do damage with some talent.
  Weiss knows how to coach Quinn. So build talent around him and make the defense a power, because that's how you win in their division, and that could be a recipe for success. Maybe in a couple years could be back to good football.
• Darkon

  

  I believe Holmgren comes in and handles the draft.
  Mangini stays one more year. They still will be bad next year.
  Then Holmgren brings in his guy to reep the benifits of Holmgrens draft picks.
• buckeyes_woowee

  I wouldnt be suprised if Dom Capers is the Browns coach
• Writerbuckeye

  

  I don't believe Mangini getting axed is a certainty if Holmgren gets the job. He has been on record as saying he doesn't believe coaches should be canned after only one year, because it isn't a fair way to evaluate how they've done. If that truly is his philosophy, then I'd say he'll give Mangini at least one more year to prove he can win with better players.
  
  As for the critical comments about the draft...I'm not sure what's not to like so far.
  
  By all accounts, Mack is an outstanding pick and has had an excellent year. With him and Thomas, the interior-left of the line is set for the next 10 years.
  
  Robiskie and Mo Mass have both shown flashes that they can be effective NFL receivers. Neither one is a true No. 1 receiver, and I don't believe either was drafted with that intent. I think they see the team getting (via free agency most likely) a top flight threat who can stretch the field, and then move everyone down. Throw in Stuckey and even Cribbs, and you have a pretty decent receiving corps -- especially if you find someone who is a deep threat.
  
  It's too soon to judge on Davis (injury) and both Maiava and Veikune are being converted to 3-4 linebackers, so you have to give them an incomplete at this point. It's pretty common for folks converted to these slots to take an extra year or so.
  
  The one pick that is a disappointment to this point is Frances, who for some reason hasn't been able to get on the field even though the defensive backs for Cleveland have been anything but stellar all year. Then again, Mangini didn't put Robiskie on the field right away, either. It would appear his criteria for proving yourself is pretty stringent.
• Laley23

  

  The problem wasnt as much with the players Mangini drafted it was where they were drafted. Robiskie in round 2??? Mack couldve been had in the second round, easily. Basically our top 3 picks could have been had a round later. That wouldve allowed us to take someone else on the board. Beanie (first name I remember) was available, as well as some others.
• thedynasty1998

  

  The problem with the draft is the impact players he passed on to build depth at WR (which is the worst WR corp in the NFL) and a center.
  
  Players passed on:
  Michael Crabtree - a legit #1
  Moreno, Wells and McCoy - All are a HUGE upgrade over our current RB's
  Brian Cushing - one of the best LB's in the NFL as a rookie
  Percy Harvin - offensive threat
  Clay Matthews, Laurinaitis and Maualuga - All huge upgrades
  
  When your #2 pick can't even get on the field, you failed at your draft.
• DeyDurkie5

  

  thedynasty1998 wrote: The problem with the draft is the impact players he passed on to build depth at WR (which is the worst WR corp in the NFL) and a center.
  
  Players passed on:
  Michael Crabtree - a legit #1
  Moreno, Wells and McCoy - All are a HUGE upgrade over our current RB's
  Brian Cushing - one of the best LB's in the NFL as a rookie
  Percy Harvin - offensive threat
  Clay Matthews, Laurinaitis and Maualuga - All huge upgrades
  
  When your #2 pick can't even get on the field, you failed at your draft.

  agree 100%, when you have offensive players like percy, crabtree, moreno you have to take them. ESPECIALLY with our offense lacking the big playmakers that other teams have. Bringing Holmgren is one hell of an upgrade, and he should keep the coaches how they are. Give Mangini a year or two more to see what he can do and keep giving Ryan the freedom with our defense.
  Our First round should have at least one of these in there..
  1. Defensive Giant(Suh, Berry)
  2. Offensive playmaker(RB, RB, RB)
  3. LB, LB, LB
• pkebker

  Mangini does have a history as a good drafter(he drafted many of the players excelling for the jets right now, Mangold, Revis etc). Last years draft was a mix of good(Mack and Massaquoi) and bad(Viekune and Robiskie) and I would give it an overall C. I would like to see him given another year.
  
  One way to turn this team around is to establish a run game. Draft a legitimate number one HB and stay commited to the run. Then just ask Quinn to manage the game, which he can do(pretty good at not throwing interceptions). Get some LB's and safety's. And we'll be back in business.
• royal_k

  

  ^^^^Don't forget the right side of the OL. It has been TERRIBLE.
• Writerbuckeye

  

  Laley23 wrote: The problem wasnt as much with the players Mangini drafted it was where they were drafted. Robiskie in round 2??? Mack couldve been had in the second round, easily. Basically our top 3 picks could have been had a round later. That wouldve allowed us to take someone else on the board. Beanie (first name I remember) was available, as well as some others.

  You're wrong.
  
  There were several credible reports that said the Steelers were going to draft Mack if the Browns didn't take him.
  
  There were credible reports that several teams (can't recall who now) were interested in Robiskie and would have taken him later in that same round. Now that I think of it, I believe the Bears were one of those teams and someone actually came out and said they would have taken him.
  
  The Browns had so many holes to fill that just about any picks would have left holes elsewhere -- allowing anyone to make an argument they should have drafted differently.
  
  We won't know whether this was really a decent draft for another year or two. If the players taken in the top 3 rounds turn out to be productive NFL players, then it will be deemed a success.
  
  If not...then Mangini deserves every bit of criticism he gets.
• miller45452003

  Sounds like the ball is in Holmgren's side of the court. Hopefully our genious owner, Lerner didn't botch the interview to badly.
  
  http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/category/rumor-mill/
• pkebker

  I don't understand why everyone is assuming that Holmgren will fire Mangini. I've been impressed with how he has these players still playing hard week in and week out despite a severe lack of talent and an absurd amount of injuries.
• miller45452003

  I seen this morning Washington's, VP of Operations has resigned. Could spell bad news on the Brown's front for those that want Holmgren. On a side note, maybe we can lure in Colbert/Cowher?? This could be the better option anyways.
• shook_17

  

  of course washington fired their damn VP of operations. holmgren coming to cleveland would help the browns. so its only natural he goes some where else :/
• miller45452003

  EliteRain20 wrote: of course washington fired their damn VP of operations. holmgren coming to cleveland would help the browns. so its only natural he goes some where else :/

  
  Maybe C-Town still does have hope. They already hired a VP/GM.
  
  http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/12/17/redskins-hire-bruce-allen/