Super Bowl XLVI - New England Patriots vs. New York Giants

• Skyhook79

  

  Mulva;1076646 wrote:Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Peyton (when healthy), Stafford, Big Ben, Romo, and Rivers are all guys I take over Eli.
  
  Ryan, Schaub, Flacco, and Vick are right there with him. Not so hard.

  You cannot be serious.
• mhs95_06

  Ironman92;1076450 wrote:Brady needing 7 with 57 seconds and a TO or Tynes for a 19 yd FG?

  Belichick, one of the greatest minds in the game, apparently decided the odds were better if they took the touchdown they tried to give them.
  
  So they score and Brady has a minute and a TO to get a TD.
  
  If the Giants get down in bounds, the Pats take a TO, then they can run the clock down and Brady needs 45 yds in just 20 sec to get a long FG try for the win. Or they can go for the TD on 3rd down, and if they don't get it, get the FG, and then Brady has the 20 sec and needs 45 yds, or it they get the TD on 3rd down, then Brady has 20 secs and needs a TD.
  
  Great game!
• THE4RINGZ

  

  Mulva;1076646 wrote:Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Peyton (when healthy), Stafford, Big Ben, Romo, and Rivers are all guys I take over Eli.
  
  Ryan, Schaub, Flacco, and Vick are right there with him. Not so hard.

  
  No way Rivers is in that first group.
  
  No one in that second group has proven to be as clutch at crunch time of a big game.
  
  I am not an Eli apologist. Just the facts are what they are.
• karen lotz

  

  Romo?
• IggyPride00

  

  As a life long Browns fan I (as well as all Browns fans) am an authority on Bad/Mediocre quarterback play.
  
  Eli Manning is neither of those.
• THE4RINGZ

  

  IggyPride00;1076656 wrote:As a life long Browns fan I (as well as all Browns fans) am an authority on Bad/Mediocre quarterback play.
  
  Eli Manning is neither of those.

  
  Funny shit.
• Mulva

  

  Skyhook79;1076648 wrote:You cannot be serious.

  I guess I just prefer QBs with better than 1.43/1 TD/INT ratios and better than 58% completion percentages.
  
  The fact that the Giants are a better team than the Lions doesn't impact the fact that Stafford is already a better QB than Eli.
• Skyhook79

  

  Mulva;1076659 wrote:I guess I just prefer QBs with better than 1.43/1 TD/INT ratios and better than 58% completion percentages.
  
  The fact that the Giants are a better team than the Lions doesn't impact the fact that Stafford is already a better QB than Eli.

  Did you think the Giants were a better team when they were 7-7?
• Terry_Tate

  

  LOL at Rivers, Romo, or Stafford being better than Eli. No freaking way. I like Rivers too and he is screwed by having Norv Turner at coach, but Eli has far more playoff wins than those 3 combined. Playoff wins aren't the end all, but the Giants are winning a lot because of Eli, he's not just a game manager.
• Mulva

  

  THE4RINGZ;1076652 wrote:No way Rivers is in that first group.
  
  No one in that second group has proven to be as clutch at crunch time of a big game.
  
  I am not an Eli apologist. Just the facts are what they are.

  Flacco has done very well on the road in the playoffs in his career. Vick is iffy. I'd probably rather take Eli, but he's a dynamic playmaker and I could understand arguments either way. Schaub's teams haven't been nearly as good as the Giants, and considering he's never had any weapons outside of Andre Johnson to throw to I think he's put up great numbers in Houston. I hate Matt Ryan, but he's been better than solid in the regular season (although a choke in the playoffs).
  
  Again, those guys are in the argument with Eli. I didn't say any of them are definitively better, because they aren't.
  
  Rivers from 2008-2010 put up better TD/INT ratios than Eli ever has, a higher completion percentage than he ever has, and more total TDs than he probably ever will put up in a 3 year period. One half of a bad season this year doesn't diminish his status as elite. He's definitely a better QB than Eli Manning. There's no question in my mind.
• Classyposter58

  

  First of all lets come back to Earth folks.
  
  1.) Eli isn't elite but he's about is good as they come. Brady, Rodgers and Brees are the cream of the crop and then I'd say it's Eli, Stafford, Big Ben and Rivers. In all honesty you gotta remember that the Giants won the Super Bowl, not Eli Manning. They had the best D in the NFC and that is why they're champions of the world
  
  2.) The Giants receivers are among the best in NFL history? Really SportsandLady you should be shot for that. They're not better than the Saints lineup currently and they're nowhere near the 2000's Colts receivers, the Rams with the Greatest Show on Turf, the Vikings with Carter and Moss, the 07 Bengals with Ocho and Housh were unstoppable, and definitely behind what Green Bay has this year
  
  3.) I won $83!!! That's what I'm talkin about:thumbup:
• Classyposter58

  

  Terry_Tate;1076666 wrote:LOL at Rivers, Romo, or Stafford being better than Eli. No freaking way. I like Rivers too and he is screwed by having Norv Turner at coach, but Eli has far more playoff wins than those 3 combined. Playoff wins aren't the end all, but the Giants are winning a lot because of Eli, he's not just a game manager.

  Watching every Lions game this year I'm gonna say that Stafford will be better than Eli, if he isn't already. I'm tellin you guys if he stays healthy he will be elite. Especially with the WR corps of Johnson, Young, Burleson and Pettitgrew at TE
• THE4RINGZ

  

  Classyposter58;1076673 wrote:Watching every Lions game this year I'm gonna say that Stafford will be better than Eli, if he isn't already. I'm tellin you guys if he stays healthy he will be elite. Especially with the WR corps of Johnson, Young, Burleson and Pettitgrew at TE

  
  If he stays healthy, that has been a challenge throughout his career.
• Classyposter58

  

  THE4RINGZ;1076675 wrote:If he stays healthy, that has been a challenge throughout his career.

  Ehh just his first two years. He was healthy all through high school and college, just two years where he got unlucky injuries
• Terry_Tate

  

  Classyposter58;1076673 wrote:Watching every Lions game this year I'm gonna say that Stafford will be better than Eli, if he isn't already. I'm tellin you guys if he stays healthy he will be elite. Especially with the WR corps of Johnson, Young, Burleson and Pettitgrew at TE

  
  I really like Stafford and think he's the real deal, but no way is he above Eli right now. He will be really good for awhile if he stays healthy, especially throwing to CJ.
• Mulva

  

  Skyhook79;1076665 wrote:Did you think the Giants were a better team when they were 7-7?

  Yes, but only because the Lions were too young to be a real threat this year.
  
  The Giants, Eagles, and Cowboys all underachieved this season (edit: obviously I mean in the regular season). Those were all 10 win teams talent-wise in my opinion.
  

  Terry_Tate;1076666 wrote:LOL at Rivers, Romo, or Stafford being better than Eli. No freaking way. I like Rivers too and he is screwed by having Norv Turner at coach, but Eli has far more playoff wins than those 3 combined. Playoff wins aren't the end all, but the Giants are winning a lot because of Eli, he's not just a game manager.

  I don't understand people who equate team success to QB talent. Alex Smith isn't a top 10 QB, but San Fran made the NFC title game. I also don't understand people who discount the regular season. If we're going by playoff success, than do you all agree that Mark Sanchez is a top 10 QB in the NFL?
  
  Great QBs help to make great teams. They don't make them on their own. Eli being clutch in the postseason doesn't make him a great QB anymore than Tebow being clutch for 5 minutes a game for 8 weeks this season makes him one.
• chicago510

  

  Mulva;1076646 wrote:Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Peyton (when healthy), Stafford, Big Ben, Romo, and Rivers are all guys I take over Eli.
  
  Ryan, Schaub, Flacco, and Vick are right there with him. Not so hard.

  Only 5 of those guys have ever even BEEN to a super bowl. Eli has won 2.
• dwccrew

  

  Classyposter58;1076673 wrote:Watching every Lions game this year I'm gonna say that Stafford will be better than Eli, if he isn't already. I'm tellin you guys if he stays healthy he will be elite. Especially with the WR corps of Johnson, Young, Burleson and Pettitgrew at TE

  I'm a Lions fan and I think Stafford is really good, but he's not on Eli's level yet. 2 Super Bowl rings > embarassing playoff performance. Let's wait to see how Stafford and the Lions do; I'm excited for the future.
  
  As for the game, I won some money taking the Giants +3. The Pats are not the team they were 5 years ago and Belichick has lost his edge. Without being able to cheat and tape the games while in progress, the Pats can't win Super Bowls.
• chicago510

  

  
• Skyhook79

  

  Classyposter58;1076670 wrote:First of all lets come back to Earth folks.
  
  1.) Eli isn't elite but he's about is good as they come. Brady, Rodgers and Brees are the cream of the crop and then I'd say it's Eli, Stafford, Big Ben and Rivers. In all honesty you gotta remember that the Giants won the Super Bowl, not Eli Manning. They had the best D in the NFC and that is why they're champions of the world
  
  2.) The Giants receivers are among the best in NFL history? Really SportsandLady you should be shot for that. They're not better than the Saints lineup currently and they're nowhere near the 2000's Colts receivers, the Rams with the Greatest Show on Turf, the Vikings with Carter and Moss, the 07 Bengals with Ocho and Housh were unstoppable, and definitely behind what Green Bay has this year
  
  3.) I won $83!!! That's what I'm talkin about:thumbup:

  
  Wait... wut??? The Giants were the 27th ranked defense in the NFL this year and only 6 teams gave up more points than the Giants. What are you smoking tonight?
• Mulva

  

  chicago510;1076688 wrote:Only 5 of those guys have ever even BEEN to a super bowl. Eli has won 2.

  The fact that 3 of the guys on that list have made 10 of the last 11 Super Bowl appearances from the AFC probably has something to do with it. It's not like there are other unlisted guys eating up appearances.
  
  But again, the Super Bowl isn't a QB award. Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Rex Grossman. It helps to have a great QB, but making/winning the Super Bowl requires either a great overall team, or incredible luck (like Tyree's catch or the Packers offense falling apart). Even the Patriots had great luck in their Super Bowl runs (see: tuck rule).
• dwccrew

  

  Skyhook79;1076694 wrote:Wait... wut??? The Giants were the 27th ranked defense in the NFL this year and only 6 teams gave up more points than the Giants. What are you smoking tonight?

  LOL, yeah not sure if Classyposter should change his name to uninformedposter or what.
• Skyhook79

  

  Only Joe Montana has more Super Bowl MVP's than Eli Manning.
• dwccrew

  

  Mulva;1076699 wrote:The fact that 3 of the guys on that list have made 10 of the last 11 Super Bowl appearances from the AFC probably has something to do with it. It's not like there are other unlisted guys eating up appearances.
  
  But again, the Super Bowl isn't a QB award. Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Rex Grossman. It helps to have a great QB, but making/winning the Super Bowl requires either a great overall team, or incredible luck (like Tyree's catch or the Packers offense falling apart). Even the Patriots had great luck in their Super Bowl runs (see: tuck rule).

  The fact that Eli has done it twice (and drove his team down the field to win both times) deserves some credit. Yes, the Giants have won it as a team, but Eli is the leader on that team. Tyree wouldn't have had the chance to make that great catch had Eli not made a great scramble and avoided getting sacked.
  
  I'm not an Eli fan at all, but I will give credit where credit is due.
• Mulva

  

  dwccrew;1076702 wrote:The fact that Eli has done it twice (and drove his team down the field to win both times) deserves some credit. Yes, the Giants have won it as a team, but Eli is the leader on that team. Tyree wouldn't have had the chance to make that great catch had Eli not made a great scramble and avoided getting sacked.
  
  I'm not an Eli fan at all, but I will give credit where credit is due.

  I'm giving him credit. I defended him as better than mediocre and arguably a top 10 QB in the league. But he isn't elite, and isn't really that close.
  
  Also, for the postseason performance people, he had an 0-1 record with 0 TD and 2 INT in the playoffs the last 3 years, and didn't even reach the postseason the previous 2. Since apparently the 2 Super Bowl rings were all his doing and make him a great QB, I'm going to go ahead and say that the Giants not even making the playoffs the past 2 seasons was all on him too.
  
  See how dumb that is?