Ohio Chatter DEV

Skyhook79

wkfan;1078149 wrote:So, based on this reasoning, Jorge Posada should be a first ballot HOFer. 5 Rings!!!!

Let's forget that he is a career .275 hitter, 1583 hits, 261 HRs, 1021 RBIs, 1377 SO (almost as many strikeouts as hits), 6 time All Star.....but he has 5 World Seriees Championships!!!!!

Don't get me wrong, Posada was a good catcher, just not HOF calibre. You can't use a team accomplishment as criteria for an indivudual evaluation.

Just not buying it.

I said it's not completely worthless. For HOF voting it has much less use. There are many people in Pro HOF's that have never won a Championship. If you are comparing 2 players to see who is better with similar stats it is more useful.

If you just look at stats for Montana and Jim Kelly they are pretty similar even though Kelly played 4 less years. Add that Kelly is 0-4 in Super Bowls and Montana is 4-0 everyone will pick Montana over Kelly. If Montana is 0-4 and Kelly is 4-0 you are going to pick Kelly.

dwccrew

Let's not forget that Peyton had to always face those infamous cheating Patriots teams in the playoffs. If the Pats weren't cheating and stealing signals during the games, perhaps Peyton would have a few more rings. Also, Peyton never had any defense that was worth a shit. You flip-flop Peyton and Eli, the Colts would not have won a Super Bowl while the Giants may have won 1-2 more.

j_crazy

Who did eli beat for both his rings?

like_that

j_crazy;1085143 wrote:Who did eli beat for both his rings?

The non cheating patriots.

Laley23

j_crazy;1085143 wrote:Who did eli beat for both his rings?

The Pats, post the "spygate".

Peyton is better. Ive watched both their careers extremely close. I love Eli, but he is not as good as Peyton. Not close.

Playoff success is such a flawed measure of success. Is Peyton better if Vanderjact makes the FG versus missing it? Fuck no. Is he better if he beat the Saints? No, hes the same. Is he worse if the Bears lock him up? No, no he is not.

j_crazy

Pardon my ignorance, but they've only played 3 times in the playoffs. Peyton won 1 the year he got his title. What happened to the colts the other 8 times peyton made the playoffs?

Laley23

j_crazy;1085292 wrote:Pardon my ignorance, but they've only played 3 times in the playoffs. Peyton won 1 the year he got his title. What happened to the colts the other 8 times peyton made the playoffs?

Other teams. You didnt ask that though.

I dont recall 100%, but I believe Titans, Dolphins, Jets (2), Chargers (2), Saints, Pats (2), Steelers have knocked out Peyton.

said_aouita

Eli can win quite a few more Super Bowls, still does not mean he's as good of a QB as Peyton.
All it means is he has more SB titles and played on a better team.

hoops23

Laley23;1085305 wrote:Other teams. You didnt ask that though.

I dont recall 100%, but I believe Titans, Dolphins, Jets (2), Chargers (2), Saints, Pats (2), Steelers have knocked out Peyton.

How many of those games where the Colts favored in?

Eli has taken two Giants teams on the verge of missing the playoffs to the Super Bowl, and won both of them against the better team.

You can't discredit playoff success and credit regular season success... Just doesn't work both ways.

If I had to win 1 game, I'm taking Eli. You can post all the pretty stats you want, but I want the guy who lays it on the line and knows how to win the big games.

Azubuike24

said_aouita;1089669 wrote:Eli can win quite a few more Super Bowls, still does not mean he's as good of a QB as Peyton.
All it means is he has more SB titles and played on a better team.

I think you could argue that both of Eli's teams were not even top 5 teams in the NFL before the playoffs.

Peyton has had a lot of teams who were one of, if not THE favorite heading into the playoffs...

september63

I guess Bradshaw's 4 SB wins were bc the Steelers were good teams and NOT bc of him? If Eli wins 3 SB's, he goes down as better than his brother. This debate is finished!!

j_crazy

Eli had better defenses but I dont he ever had the offensive talent surrounding him close to what peyton had. So I'm not buying the "eli had better teams, otherwise peyton would have 5 titles" argument.

SportsAndLady

Azubuike24;1089708 wrote:I think you could argue that both of Eli's teams were not even top 5 teams in the NFL before the playoffs.

Peyton has had a lot of teams who were one of, if not THE favorite heading into the playoffs...

Peyton's teams were favored because of Peyton. Eli's teams were much more talented at other positions (D-line, WR), and Eli was able to take advantage. Doesn't make Eli the better QB.

said_aouita

Azubuike24;1089708 wrote:I think you could argue that both of Eli's teams were not even top 5 teams in the NFL before the playoffs.

Peyton has had a lot of teams who were one of, if not THE favorite heading into the playoffs...

OK. Eli has had a lot better coaching then his older brother.

I also consider being the "best" Manning by how valuable he is to the team. How many games would the Giants win w.o Eli, compared to Colts w.o Peyton? P. Manning wins.

SportsAndLady;1090685 wrote: Eli's teams were much more talented at other positions (D-line, WR), and Eli was able to take advantage..

:thumbup:

Rotinaj

SportsAndLady;1090685 wrote:Peyton's teams were favored because of Peyton. Eli's teams were much more talented at other positions (D-line, WR), and Eli was able to take advantage. Doesn't make Eli the better QB.

I 100% agree that Peyton is better but i wouldnt say Eli has much more talent at WR. Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne and Dallas Clark(TE i know but hes basically a wr in that system) I think if Bob Sanders was EVER able 2 stay healthy they win another SB or 2.

Laley23

Rotinaj;1090875 wrote:I 100% agree that Peyton is better but i wouldnt say Eli has much more talent at WR. Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne and Dallas Clark(TE i know but hes basically a wr in that system) I think if Bob Sanders was EVER able 2 stay healthy they win another SB or 2.

Peyton has never really had a #2 though. Reggie Wayne for a few years before Marvin started to suck. But yeah, he has had solid #1s his whole career.

dwccrew

september63;1090642 wrote:I guess Bradshaw's 4 SB wins were bc the Steelers were good teams and NOT bc of him? If Eli wins 3 SB's, he goes down as better than his brother. This debate is finished!!

You're going to use the Steelers that had great defenses as your argument? You're just proving the point further that QB's with good to great defenses have better chances of winning Super Bowls than QB's that have terrible or less than average defenses.

Also, the fact that you say IF Eli wins one more Super Bowl he will go down as better than his brother makes me believe that Peyton is that much better. If one guy has to win 3 Super Bowls to another's 1 Super Bowl, it leads me to believe that although the guy has only 1 Super Bowl win, he is the superior QB since Eli would have to win 3X as many just to be considered better.

As a player, Peyton is easily better, Eli will end up having the better career, but not as a better player.

Laley23

I will say this. I may be swayed a bit more if Eli continues to improve and has some SEASONS close to Peytons. This was probably Elis best, and without looking at the numbers, Id assume it doesnt touch Peytons top 5. I mean, if Eli can string together some 35+ TD seasons with sub 15 INTs and ratings over 100. Then sure, I think another SB coupled with them would really help close the argument.

But as of now, another SB wouldnt do it.

BTW, we are already writing of Peyton? If he comes back on a team not named the Colts I wouldnt be shocked at another Peyton title.

Archive

If Eli Manning Wins Another Super Bowl...is He the Best Manning?