Warning : Dunking on LeBron will make you go insane...
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Heelz
There are some that would argue that Shaq was the man and some say Kobe was the man...Jordan was the unquestioned leaderHb31187;950704 wrote:And MJ always had Pippen to help him along. Kobe wasnt the "man" for all of his titles -
dwccrew
This is not true. #1, Jordan was in the league before you were probably even born. You probably started watching Jordan when the Bulls started winning titles. You didn't get to see his career progress.sleeper;950462 wrote:I watched Jordan his entire career. I don't think he holds a candle to the talent Lebron or Shaq have. But most people don't think for themselves and don't want to present arguments contrary to media generated hype. Most people aren't as rich as me either, so I guess some things in life you just have to accept.
Talent wise, I'll give you Lebron, but Jordan was still better because Lebron doesn't play up to his talent abilities. Jordan was a hard worker. Shaq talented? LOL, he was twice the size of anyone else and just muscled people out of his way. And as I Am Ahab's post below points out, Shaq never played against tough centers.
I Am Ahab;950490 wrote:Watered down league? Who was Shaquille's stiff competition on the way to those rings? Sabonis, Divak(?), Rick Smits, who the hell played center for Philly. Any other hof centers I missed.
I believe an argument can be made for someone being better than Jordan and not buying the media hype, but I dnt think you can call Shaq better than Jordan. I think he was one OC the greatest but not better than MJ. Shaq benefited from going up against some weak ass centers. -
Trueblue23
Shaq was destroyed by Hakeem and David Robinson. Don't get me wrong, the Big Fella was a beast.. congrats Shaq, you had a great 5 year run...dwccrew;951127 wrote:This is not true. #1, Jordan was in the league before you were probably even born. You probably started watching Jordan when the Bulls started winning titles. You didn't get to see his career progress.
Talent wise, I'll give you Lebron, but Jordan was still better because Lebron doesn't play up to his talent abilities. Jordan was a hard worker. Shaq talented? LOL, he was twice the size of anyone else and just muscled people out of his way. And as I Am Ahab's post below points out, Shaq never played against tough centers.
As for the MJ thing.. he's the best.
I'll catch a lot of shit for this, but I honestly believe Kobe is a more skilled basketball player than Michael ever was. MJ was blessed with the athleticism that only LeBron has today. -
sleeper
Why do you like North Carolina? It's because they are good and that makes you a bandwagon fan. Enjoy!Heelz;950748 wrote:I never said anything about Jordan being the greatest, do I think he is? yes. But its hard to say this person is better than that person bc they dont play against each other. What has Lebron done to be even in the conversation for great? Congrats he can dunk and run down small guards.
To lazy to think for myself? said the guy who thinks you cant like a team outside of your state, talk about being a programmed robot. -
Heelz
I started liking them when Jordan played for them when I was a kid call me what you want I've heard worse from better.sleeper;951141 wrote:Why do you like North Carolina? It's because they are good and that makes you a bandwagon fan. Enjoy!
So you want people to think on thier own but only if they stick with the teams that are in thier respective states that makes you an idiot. Take it to the bank. -
Ironman92
sleeper;950462 wrote:I watched Jordan his entire career. I don't think he holds a candle to the talent Lebron or Shaq have. But most people don't think for themselves and don't want to present arguments contrary to media generated hype. Most people aren't as rich as me either, so I guess some things in life you just have to accept.
Reps for the worst all-around post of the year. -
justincredible
Chris Mullin = GOAT. Fact. -
Ironman92
Gerald Wilkins
/thread -
Laley23
Shaq didnt play against tough bigs????
Dale Davis and the Dunking Dutchman disagree. -
Ironman92
Shaq is lucky he avoided BJ Mullens....
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wildcats20
What about Bron's game is more talented than Jordans?
Shooting
MJ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bron
Handle
MJ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bron
Defense
MJ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bron
Non-athletic aspects
MJ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> x2372837283972189378297382738273827382372873 Bron
There are 2 aspects of Bron's game that are/could be said to be better/more talented than MJ's: his ability to finish at the rim and his passing. And honestly, both can be argued til the cows come home.
LeBron is a crazy, freakish athlete. We will probably never see anyone like him, not in a NBA uni at least. While he is a great player, he is in no way more talented than MJ. He isn't even the most talented player in the League now. Players like Kobe, Wade, KD, Melo, all the PGs, etc. are more talented than LeBron. By no means am I saying he isn't talented. He's in the League and a top 3 player, you don't get there by athleticism alone. Dude is crazy good, but he is not more talented than MJ. No way. -
robj55
I feel that you are way overstating some of those skills, there is no way that MJ was a better ball handler than Lebron, no way in hell. MJ primarily only went right and very rarely used his left more than one dribble. Lebron is a much more creative ball handler than MJ ever dreamed of being. Shooting is really about even although MJ had a much more consistent mid range jumper. Defense, again, MJ maybe more consistent but Lebron is an all world defender and is much more versatile as a defender, no way in hell MJ could lock someone like Derrick Rose down the way LBJ did. Lebron can damn near guard the 1-5 which is something Jordan couldn't dream of doing. Lebron is also a better rebounder and a much better passer/play maker than Jordan ever was, Lebron's vision is unreal. Intangibles go the way of Jordan as he was a cutthroat winner who would do whatever it takes, but he also had a shit ton of help around him and never won titles by himself like a lot of people claim he basically did.wildcats20;952934 wrote:What about Bron's game is more talented than Jordans?
Shooting
MJ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bron
Handle
MJ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bron
Defense
MJ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bron
Non-athletic aspects
MJ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> x2372837283972189378297382738273827382372873 Bron
There are 2 aspects of Bron's game that are/could be said to be better/more talented than MJ's: his ability to finish at the rim and his passing. And honestly, both can be argued til the cows come home.
LeBron is a crazy, freakish athlete. We will probably never see anyone like him, not in a NBA uni at least. While he is a great player, he is in no way more talented than MJ. He isn't even the most talented player in the League now. Players like Kobe, Wade, KD, Melo, all the PGs, etc. are more talented than LeBron. By no means am I saying he isn't talented. He's in the League and a top 3 player, you don't get there by athleticism alone. Dude is crazy good, but he is not more talented than MJ. No way. -
lhslep134
I'm not taking sides but..
Sleeper did not watch Jordan his whole career. Come on dude, he was in the league before you were born. -
lhslep134
Also, you guys are way too caught up on the "how much help they got from teammates" thing. As someone said earlier, a championship is a team accomplishment, and every superstar has had to have substantial contributions from teammates in order to win. I think the more worthwhile stat is performance in the playoffs, when pressure is increased and the season is on the line. No one performed better in the playoffs than MJ.
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sleeper
Cool. I was born in 86. I saw Jordan most of his career. Geez, might want to study some law before arguing over a couple years in which an anonymous user on the internet didn't watch Jordan play basketball. I saw Jordan in his prime, and I still think Shaq and Lebron are better.lhslep134;952981 wrote:I'm not taking sides but..
Sleeper did not watch Jordan his whole career. Come on dude, he was in the league before you were born.
People just don't think for themselves. It's so much easier just to say Jordan's the best rather than doing your own thinking. People always take the easy way out, and that's why most of you will be working for me one day. -
lhslep134
So when you were 1-5 years old you had a cognizant memory of watching Jordan play? Highly doubtful. You can't say you saw Jordan play his whole career if you missed 6 years. I'm not saying you can't choose Lebron or Shaq over Jordan, just don't say you saw Jordan's whole career because it's a lie.
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sleeper
I said most. Geez, starting to be like ND fans when I make statements like "ND hasn't won a relevant game in 20 years" and then you have ND fans going back through history and a relevant game they won 19 years and 11 months ago.lhslep134;953144 wrote:So when you were 1-5 years old you had a cognizant memory of watching Jordan play? Highly doubtful. You can't say you saw Jordan play his whole career if you missed 6 years. I'm not saying you can't choose Lebron or Shaq over Jordan, just don't say you saw Jordan's whole career because it's a lie.
Get a life. -
lhslep134
sleeper;953145 wrote:I said most. .
Dude you're making it seem like harmless semantics, but a major point in your argument is that you saw Jordan his whole career and it's just simply not true.sleeper;950462 wrote:I watched Jordan his entire career. -
sleeper
It is harmless semantics. What's the difference if I missed 2 years of Jordan's career? I've seen enough to know he's the most overrated player to ever play, maybe outside of Allen Iverson.lhslep134;953216 wrote:Dude you're making it seem like harmless semantics, but a major point in your argument is that you saw Jordan his whole career and it's just simply not true. -
Skyhook79
I don't know whats worse, sleeper posts on this subject or people who actually take the time to argue with him. -
Pick6
so you were born in 86 and just got your undergrad at osu this past winter quarter? what took so long?sleeper;953077 wrote:Cool. I was born in 86. I saw Jordan most of his career. Geez, might want to study some law before arguing over a couple years in which an anonymous user on the internet didn't watch Jordan play basketball. I saw Jordan in his prime, and I still think Shaq and Lebron are better.
People just don't think for themselves. It's so much easier just to say Jordan's the best rather than doing your own thinking. People always take the easy way out, and that's why most of you will be working for me one day. -
Ironman92
I was born in 1974.....Kareem sucked.
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sleeper
I took 2 years off a school to run a company with some of my friends. It didn't do so well(long story), so I decided to go back to school.Pick6;953857 wrote:so you were born in 86 and just got your undergrad at osu this past winter quarter? what took so long?
I still made off pretty well, but it was clear the company wasn't going to work out and we had some legal issues that ultimately was the final nail in the coffin. -
Ironman92
I voted.