Reds were possibly talking trade with Blue Jays (Votto for Bautista)

• gerb131

  

  se-alum;848605 wrote:The Jays are going to be relevant, probably pretty soon. They have one of the best GM's in the game.

  
  I think they have been pretty decent .500 or above for the last few years but they havent been able to break through and its a tough as hell divison.
• jordo212000

  

  The Jays are going to be relevant, probably pretty soon. They have one of the best GM's in the game.

  
  
  I think they have been pretty decent .500 or above for the last few years but they havent been able to break through and its a tough as hell divison.

  that will be moot when they get rid of the divisions. I agree though. They seem to be headed in the right direction
• SportsAndLady

  

  Yeah Toronto's GM is very good at what he does...they'll be good soon.
• SportsAndLady

  

  I always wonder if GMs secretly get together, drink heavily, and come up with these HUGE crazy deals in a 5 team trade that would work for all participants...obviously they would never do it...but just something rich old white men do in the offseason lol
• Azubuike24

  

  The Jays are going to find it tough to become more relevant than they currently are while sharing a division with New York and Boston.
  
  Tampa is an organization that is about as good as it gets as developing and making quality moves, and even in their best times, have struggled to stay in competition with the big boys the last 3 years. Baltimore has also amassed a ton of young talent and could soon make some noise, and do it with more money to spend than Toronto. Even so, anyone in that division, regardless of how well they are run, will find it very tough to contend.
• OhioStatePride2003

  Azubuike24;848648 wrote:The Jays are going to find it tough to become more relevant than they currently are while sharing a division with New York and Boston.
  
  Tampa is an organization that is about as good as it gets as developing and making quality moves, and even in their best times, have struggled to stay in competition with the big boys the last 3 years. Baltimore has also amassed a ton of young talent and could soon make some noise, and do it with more money to spend than Toronto. Even so, anyone in that division, regardless of how well they are run, will find it very tough to contend.

  
  Agreed - no way is Toronto ever going to be relevant when they're competing against the Red Sox and Yanks - even the Rays. I guess it could happen, but I just don't see it. Now if there were a salary cap in baseball - maybe. Still, I don't think I'd been too mad to send Votto to Toronto for Bautista with Alonso's bat waiting to be unleashed. Probably a better defensive 1st Baseman too...
• Commander of Awesome

  

  se-alum;848516 wrote:I make the deal. It solidifies our LF position, and we still have a big bat at 1st. Let's be honest, Votto could go off the deep end at any time.

  
  I dont get this, does Votto have mental issues or something?
• gerb131

  

  Commander of Awesome;848990 wrote:I dont get this, does Votto have mental issues or something?

  
  http://morethancoping.wordpress.com/2009/06/24/reds-first-baseman-joey-votto-comes-back-after-time-away-to-deal-with-depression-and-severe-anxiety/
  
  Not the greatest link but it gives you an idea.
• se-alum

  

  Commander of Awesome;848990 wrote:I dont get this, does Votto have mental issues or something?

  
  Documented depression and anxiety disorder.
• Ironman92

  

  se-alum;849042 wrote:Documented depression and anxiety disorder.

  
  He'll snap a kill 3 umpires one of these days or stab one with a broken bat or something.
• Ironman92

  

  And if anyone does that before Votto...it'll be Bautista!
• wildcats20

  

  Ironman92;849066 wrote:And if anyone does that before Votto...it'll be Bautista!

  
  Roid rage.
• Ironman92

  

  wildcats20;849073 wrote:Roid rage.

  
  It's pretty common for those non-American players to be pretty fiery. Orlando Cabrera, Carlos Zambrano, Benito Santiago etc.
• royal_k

  

  I would have made this deal. Bautista is unreal.
• Azubuike24

  

  OhioStatePride2003;848691 wrote:Agreed - no way is Toronto ever going to be relevant when they're competing against the Red Sox and Yanks - even the Rays. I guess it could happen, but I just don't see it. Now if there were a salary cap in baseball - maybe. Still, I don't think I'd been too mad to send Votto to Toronto for Bautista with Alonso's bat waiting to be unleashed. Probably a better defensive 1st Baseman too...

  There's no way Alonso is a better first baseman than Votto though...
• thavoice

  Azubuike24;848493 wrote:Disagree. Votto has never had the chance to test the market. While it seems he likes Cincinnati, he's a Toronto kid who grew up idolizing the Jays during their best days. To say he wouldn't have some interest in exploring any option to play there would be naive thinking. The risk here is the vital stats.
  
  Joey Votto is 27, since arriving in the majors at age 23, he's been nothing but great. He has a career .955 OPS and has trended upwards in every category since his rookie year. He's an above average first-baseman who is under team control for at least another 2 years.
  
  Jose Bautista is 30, never played full-time until last year and has career numbers elevated significantly by last year's performance. He was so undervalued before last year, he was released a few times and spent time with 4 MLB teams before the Jays, including multiple stints with the Pirates.
  
  It's safe to say he's a late-bloomer who can clearly play, but there would be significantly more risk for the Reds, both on the fronts that Votto may opt to explore leaving soon anyway and in-terms of value and performance, Votto is more consistent and would have more overall value than Joey.

  
  Unless Votto really tanks before his deal is up and the reds dont offer him anything much...Votto WILL SIGN ANOTHER DEAL in cincy.
  
  In 5 years I believe those who say we shoulda done this deal will look very foolish.
  
  Votto is a cornerstone of this franchise. He is the face of this franchise. And if the pieces fall together then he will be the heart of a perennial contending team in Cincy. Bautista would want to break the bank at his next deal. He is older and that next contract will be the one his agent tries to make up for all the lost time and contracts.
  
  Look me up in 5 years. Trading VOtto for Bautista would be foolish.
  
  Plus.....if the Reds would do this trade this wouldnt do anything to help the team win now. No way..............it would be a lateral move for the short term, and hurt them in the long term.
• thavoice

  se-alum;849042 wrote:Documented depression and anxiety disorder.

  
  I didnt get to see a game last year after July 17th and I forget...did he miss time last year due to this? Iknow this year he has been ok.
  
  There is no denying he flipped out a bit for a time, but that was much closer to the death of his father. I think the farther away ya get from that the less it will affect him
• justincredible

  

  Well, Bautista's current contract runs through 2015 with a team option for 2016 at just $14 million per year. So he would need a "next deal" with Cincinnati because he'd be 36 at the end of his current one and they will have had 5 years of his services.
  
  Votto is not going to resign in Cincinnati after 2013.
• thavoice

  justincredible;849496 wrote:Well, Bautista's current contract runs through 2015 with a team option for 2016 at just $14 million per year. So he would need a "next deal" with Cincinnati because he'd be 36 at the end of his current one and they will have had 5 years of his services.
  
  Votto is not going to resign in Cincinnati after 2013.

  
  Sure he will. Unless he tanks from now till then and we dont want him....VOTTO WILL RESIGN.
• alwaysawarrior

  I'm not saying I would have made the trade, although I would have considered it. But I have no idea what leads you to believe so strongly that Votto will be here at the end of the contract. Everything I have ever seen or heard (from some people close to the organization) that it doesn't appear that Votto is going to want to stick around. I would be surprised if he is still here after the 3 years that he is under the team's control.
• thavoice

  alwaysawarrior;849504 wrote:I'm not saying I would have made the trade, although I would have considered it. But I have no idea what leads you to believe so strongly that Votto will be here at the end of the contract. Everything I have ever seen or heard (from some people close to the organization) that it doesn't appear that Votto is going to want to stick around. I would be surprised if he is still here after the 3 years that he is under the team's control.

  
  Because I think the REds will do whatever it takes to keep him, and he will not just jump for the biggest and fattest deal. Some mentioned his mental issues. True, but that also goes in the reds favor. A new city, a new team, new expectations, a new fan base....if anything will trigger those demons again it would be that.
  
  The reds will make him a very good deal, presuming he keeps playing well, and he will stick around. The organization wants him to be the face, the rock, to build this franchise on and they will not let him go, especially for a 30 yr old OF who doesnt have a long track record.
  
  I dont think Votto will match last years numbers, but he will hit his .320, hit 22-28 HR and drive in 90+ a year for the reds for a long, long time.
• se-alum

  

  I'm not sure how anyone can be sure of what Votto will do one way or the other. On one hand, we know that he made it clear he only wanted to sign for 3 years. We don't know if that was because he thinks he might want to go to Toronto or he just wants to be sure that the Reds are going to put a winning product on the field. I'm certainly not opposed to holding on to him until 2013 then trying to make a deadline trade if there is one that will help the team.
• Azubuike24

  

  Votto loves Cincinnati. The Reds love Votto. They ARE going to offer him a very fair contract. I believe those 3 things are a given, and they aren't what my point was.
  
  The "WHAT-IF" factor is that Votto is Canadian, he loves Toronto, he grew up a die-hard Blue Jays' fan in the greatest era of their franchise. He was a young, aspiring baseball player when they were the highest-drawing team in the league for three straight seasons. If that was me, I'd absolutely see what my "hometown hero franchise" had to offer. What I feel in my heart for the Reds, if I was a major leaguer, I'd absolutely explore a possible deal to play there regardless of how great my current situation was.
• Midstate01

  

  The deal would have been great for Cincinnati. But right now, votto is the reds. At least to me. I love watching him play , love watching how he's grown up in the organization. And I hope they offer him a big contract. But I've already come to terms that he's probably not going to resign and I'm ok with it. If he wants to follow his dream somewhere else. Then so be it, and I know he will do it the right way. So it makes sense to say, get something for him now. But selfishly, I'd like to just enjoy watching him play these next few years and then go from there.
• hoops23

  

  re-sign