Royals @ Tribe- Series Thread

• Al Bundy

  Laley23;847149 wrote:I dont think people are as upset with the trade itself. But with the perceived value of Pom and White, we got shelled.
  
  Baseball seems to have taken a turn in trades (really since the Tribe fleeced Omar Minya and Expos) in who you give up and how much a top prospect is worth, and its usually more for a pitching prospect. Thats where the hangup is. Look at what the Phils gave up for Pence? Not nearly as much. Look what we got for CC and Lee? Not nearly as much. It isnt that this cant be a "win" for the Tribe. But with the way baseball works right now, and the value of the 3 main pieces involved, we got ****ed. Thats where most, imo, fell upset.

  
  I'm undecided on the trade. If the tribe can pull out the divison, the three-man rotation that they could throw at someone in the playoffs could be very scary. If we don't make the playoffs and White and Pom go on to be studs, then we made a bad trade. In this division, the tribe still has a shot to get in the playoffs, and they are going for it. Time will tell.
• jordo212000

  

  What are Pomeranz and White ranked among the top prospects in baseball? I know they were ranked pretty highly in the Indians system, but I don't think they ranked highly among all other prospects? I think Pomeranz was in the 30s? I think I saw that on the bottomline. I didn't see where they had White ranked.
  
  30th best prospect still is nothing to sneeze at, but I think you guys need to keep things in perspective.
• TBone14

  

  I love the guys coming out of the woodwork tonight. There is a group of about 7-8 of us on here every night talking Tribe. They make a move and guys post I've never heard of.
  
  As for the trade. It is impossible to judge it right now. There are no 'slam dunk' prospects. White has a few decent starts. You know who else came up and was alright for a little bit? Guys like Aaron Laffey, that bitch ass lefty (too drunk to think of his name), David Huff. Adam Miller was the 'can't miss prospect'. What has he done?
  
  We are getting a stud pitcher who won't be pitching in Denver anymore for atleast 2 more seasons. We are giving up the unknown. This trade cannot be judged today. If White or Pomeranz turn out to be studs and we don't make the playoffs in the next 3 years, we lose. If Ubaldo gives us 2 plus great seasons and a playoff appearance and a run at a pennant, I don't care what those guys turn out to be.
  
  Might as well live for the now because that is what the FO is doing. If this doesn't motivate the guys in the clubhouse nothing will. Let's go win this damn division and I'll take Ubaldo, Masterson and Tomlin vs any 3 and that includes Lester, Beckett and Lackey. Make the playoffs and who the fuck knows. This division is for the taking.
• lhslep134

  

  TBone14;847163 wrote:I love the guys coming out of the woodwork tonight. There is a group of about 7-8 of us on here every night talking Tribe. They make a move and guys post I've never heard of.
  
  As for the trade. It is impossible to judge it right now. There are no 'slam dunk' prospects. White has a few decent starts. You know who else came up and was alright for a little bit? Guys like Aaron Laffey, that bitch ass lefty (too drunk to think of his name), David Huff. Adam Miller was the 'can't miss prospect'. What has he done?
  
  We are getting a stud pitcher who won't be pitching in Denver anymore for atleast 2 more seasons. We are giving up the unknown. This trade cannot be judged today. If White or Pomeranz turn out to be studs and we don't make the playoffs in the next 3 years, we lose. If Ubaldo gives us 2 plus great seasons and a playoff appearance and a run at a pennant, I don't care what those guys turn out to be.
  
  Might as well live for the now because that is what the FO is doing. If this doesn't motivate the guys in the clubhouse nothing will. Let's go win this damn division and I'll take Ubaldo, Masterson and Tomlin vs any 3 and that includes Lester, Beckett and Lackey. Make the playoffs and who the **** knows. This division is for the taking.

  
  +1 exactly what I'm saying
• jordo212000

  

  TBone14;847163 wrote:Make the playoffs and who the fuck knows. This division is for the taking.

  
  Amen. Once you get there, you never know what will happen. If you get an open shot, you should take it. Trust your scouting / front office's ability to replace White and Pomeranz in the next couple of drafts.
• ts1227

  

  jordo212000;847167 wrote:Trust your scouting / front office's ability to replace White and Pomeranz in the next couple of drafts.

  
  Never, so long as Dolan owns them
• jordo212000

  

  ts1227;847170 wrote:Never, so long as Dolan owns them

  
  haha. Maybe. Although they got Pomeranz and White correct.
• Commander of Awesome

  

  jordo212000;847171 wrote:haha. Maybe. Although they got Pomeranz and White correct.

  
  Which we then turned into a guy with an ERA on the wrong side of 4.
• Laley23

  

  jordo212000;847159 wrote:What are Pomeranz and White ranked among the top prospects in baseball? I know they were ranked pretty highly in the Indians system, but I don't think they ranked highly among all other prospects? I think Pomeranz was in the 30s? I think I saw that on the bottomline. I didn't see where they had White ranked.
  
  30th best prospect still is nothing to sneeze at, but I think you guys need to keep things in perspective.

  
  Pomeranz will be a top 10 prospect after next spring imo. He is in the 30s after less than 18 professional games played.
• lhslep134

  

  Commander of Awesome;847172 wrote:Which we then turned into a guy with an ERA on the wrong side of 4.

  
  The same guy who is the only pitcher in franchise history with 2 sub 3.50 seasons pitching in a pitcher's graveyard. The same pitcher's graveyard we just sent those prospects. Just saying that rhe likelihood of them succeeding is lower in COL than elsewhere.
• Laley23

  

  lhslep134;847175 wrote:The same guy who is the only pitcher in franchise history with 2 sub 3.50 seasons pitching in a pitcher's graveyard. The same pitcher's graveyard we just sent those prospects. Just saying that rhe likelihood of them succeeding is lower in COL than elsewhere.

  
  Im not worried about Ubaldo performing (not saying you are either). I think he will be a great addition to the staff. I am genuinely concerned about his injuries/arm and why Colorado was actively shopping him with 3 yrs left at a great salary. I truly think something is up...I just dont know if its major or not. But something spells wrong with Colorado trying to get rid of the guy.
  
  I am also actually worried Pomeranz will be a top 10 pitcher who wins a few CYA. I dont usually get that high on our prospects, but I love this kids makeup and stuff. Then throw in White, who can be a 15 game winner consistently and we got the raw end. I think Ubaldo has a much greater risk for injury than White and Pom. I dunno. I like the trade cause it strengthens the team for this year and next. But after that, I dont think I like it.
• Commander of Awesome

  

  Even this year I dont like the trade Laley. White/Pom in my opinion could come up today and be superior than fucking Failsto Carmona. Shame that salary dictates our starting rotation.
• disco stu

  

  Read the site and threads every night, but rarely post. As a huge tribe fan who follows them at all levels, I love this trade. The prospects we gave up have a huge upside, but then again so did Miller and Marte. You never know. Heck, by the time White and Pom reach their prime, the Indians could be defending champs or in another rebuild
• 2kool4skool

  

  People have gotten on the Indians for years about not making moves to win, and always relying on prospects that will hopefully one day give us a couple productive years before they leave town.
  
  They paid a steep price, but they made a move to try and win NOW, in a rare season where we actually still have a chance to at the beginning of August. I applaud them.
• riders1

  

  Denver post report and poll on the trade from Rockies fans, about 12% like it , over 50% hate it, and 34% wait and see prospects development.
  
  http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_18586331?_requestid=2010171
• hoops23

  

  TBone14;847163 wrote:I love the guys coming out of the woodwork tonight. There is a group of about 7-8 of us on here every night talking Tribe. They make a move and guys post I've never heard of.
  
  As for the trade. It is impossible to judge it right now. There are no 'slam dunk' prospects. White has a few decent starts. You know who else came up and was alright for a little bit? Guys like Aaron Laffey, that bitch ass lefty (too drunk to think of his name), David Huff. Adam Miller was the 'can't miss prospect'. What has he done?
  
  We are getting a stud pitcher who won't be pitching in Denver anymore for atleast 2 more seasons. We are giving up the unknown. This trade cannot be judged today. If White or Pomeranz turn out to be studs and we don't make the playoffs in the next 3 years, we lose. If Ubaldo gives us 2 plus great seasons and a playoff appearance and a run at a pennant, I don't care what those guys turn out to be.
  
  Might as well live for the now because that is what the FO is doing. If this doesn't motivate the guys in the clubhouse nothing will. Let's go win this damn division and I'll take Ubaldo, Masterson and Tomlin vs any 3 and that includes Lester, Beckett and Lackey. Make the playoffs and who the fuck knows. This division is for the taking.

  
  +1. Cleveland fans are usually a bit ridiculous. They're pissed when a team stands pat, they're pissed when the owner takes the cheap route, and they're pissed when the team actually makes a move to win now...
  
  It's lose - lose.
• hoops23

  

  Oh, and A few things on Ubaldo Jiminez:
  
  Since June 1st, he is 6-4 with a 3.10 ERA. His ERA away from Coors field is 2.83. Righties and lefties hit about the same off him.
• hoops23

  

  Scott Miller of CBSSports.com has reported that outfielder Ryan Ludwick is likely to be traded to the Indians sometime Sunday
  
  
  Ludwick is a guy whose #'s have been hurt a bit by playing in the Grand Canyon.
  
  Jacobs field is a bit smaller (by a bit I mean a lot) and so are just about every AL park..
  
  Instead of guys like Kearns/Buck/Duncan starting, we'll have Brantley, Fukudome, and Ludwick. Not amazing, but also not bad.
  
  Not real sure what happens when Grady and Choo come back. This makes me think some more deals are on the table.
• Footwedge

  lhslep134;847146 wrote:Look Pomeranz and White were on my do not trade list for the Beltran trade. However, I've become a little more lenient with this because we're getting a pitcher with really great stuff while giving up 2 top flight pitching prospects and 2 guys whose chance of MLB success (in terms of trade value) is a coinflip at this point. Let's also remember that we're sending them to Colorado, where no other pitcher in the 17 years of the Rockies' existence has thrown more than 2 sub 3.50 ERA seasons except for Jimenez. If White and Pomeraz both thrive there, then admittedly we got boned in this trade. But if that doesn't happen, and at this point it's not a certainty, then we didn't get robbed.

  This posting is clearly spun. The first 10 years or so, the pitching was atrocious in Colorado. MLB now provides dead balls to make the game much more pitcher friendly in Coors field. Citing Obaldo's ERA against pitchers over the last 20 years is a joke.
  
  Losing White and Pomeranz for this guy stinks to high heaven. I would not have traded Alex White for Baldo straight up. For those that think this team has a chance to win it all this year, get your meds adjusted. And LSD is illegal in this country.
• hoops23

  

  But it's not just for this year, we have him at least 2 more years. White made 2 good starts and got injured in his 3rd one. You're giving me 2 unknowns vs a guy with a proven dominant history.
  
  Also, you may want to check the offensive stats in Colorado. They're not pretty for pitchers.
• Footwedge

  hoops23;847233 wrote:But it's not just for this year, we have him at least 2 more years. White made 2 good starts and got injured in his 3rd one. You're giving me 2 unknowns vs a guy with a proven dominant history.
  
  Also, you may want to check the offensive stats in Colorado. They're not pretty for pitchers.

  His record has been mediocre over the past 12 months. Also, Coors is MUCH more pitcher friendly today then it was 5 years ago or so. MLB uses dead baseballs out there to compensate for the thin air.
• Footwedge

  For the Ubaldo apologists....on Coors field. Now a pitcher's park.
  
  
  
  http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/17/sports/17iht-ROCKIES.2520280.html
• hoops23

  

  hoops23;847215 wrote:Oh, and A few things on Ubaldo Jiminez:
  
  Since June 1st, he is 6-4 with a 3.10 ERA. His ERA away from Coors field is 2.83. Righties and lefties hit about the same off him.

  
  Just incase you missed it Footwedge.
• Crimson streak

  

  At first I was pissed we gave up Pomeranz but now that I think about it more I don't mind it. We now have 2 aces on this staff. In a playoff series they will be tough to beat. White I don't think will be anything but a 3rd starter so fuck it let's do this shit and win this division
• Glory Days

  

  I have never seen so many grown men with a hard on over prospects.