Reds vs Cubs...Game 2

• SportsAndLady

  

  jordo212000;793703 wrote:Like I said, when you are a small market national league team you can't afford to keep guys on the bench who aren't versatile. Renteria's range has vanished and if he can't hit, what good is he? Cut bait and move on

  
  You're still not getting it. Jocketty didn't bring in Renteria to be good defensively, hit for average, etc. Jocketty has Renteria somewhere around 25 on his "players to be worried about" list.
• Ironman92

  

  The catch by Stubbs was the best play he's ever made...he doesn't get the upper echelon jump but IMO only young Griffey Jr and young Andruw Jones catch that ball...and mostly because they were both moving that direction as the pitch is pretty much on the way to the plate...those two would be shown getting 2 steps before the ball was even hit.
• jordo212000

  

  Link?

  
  You need someone who has "been there" when you get to playoff times. Renteria would have won a WS for a team because of his hit, he would have straightened them out. They still don't beat Philly in the series, but they at least maintain their game 2 lead when they got to Oswalt early.

  They had that guy in Orlando Cabrera though.
  
  We've had a taste of the playoffs now. Guys have the experience and we still have Scott Rolen and Bronson Arroyo who can both step into the role of "veteran who can lead team"
  
  Besides, I don't think Renteria is nearly as key in this role as Cabrera was. Renteria is a much quieter dude. Renteria's claim to fame is some good games in a really small sample size (World Series). It isn't because he is a clubhouse leader like Cabrera
• SportsAndLady

  

  What a freakin throw by Stubbs.
• SportsAndLady

  

  jordo212000;793724 wrote:They had that guy in Orlando Cabrera though.
  
  We've had a taste of the playoffs now. Guys have the experience and we still have Scott Rolen and Bronson Arroyo who can both step into the role of "veteran who can lead team"
  
  Besides, I don't think Renteria is nearly as key in this role as Cabrera was. Renteria is a much quieter dude. Renteria's claim to fame is some good games in a really small sample size (World Series). It isn't because he is a clubhouse leader like Cabrera

  
  We'll have to agree to disagree.
• jordo212000

  

  Like I said, when you are a small market national league team you can't afford to keep guys on the bench who aren't versatile. Renteria's range has vanished and if he can't hit, what good is he? Cut bait and move on

  
  You're still not getting it. Jocketty didn't bring in Renteria to be good defensively, hit for average, etc. Jocketty has Renteria somewhere around 25 on his "players to be worried about" list.

  Cool. I will take your word for it since you have a job in the sports industry
• SportsAndLady

  

  jordo212000;793728 wrote:Cool. I will take your word for it since you have a job in the sports industry

  
  Just a matter of opinion; don't get so defensive when mine is different than yours.
• Ironman92

  

  His claim to fame might also be 2270 career hits to go along with his postseason greatness.
• jordo212000

  

  Hernandez looked a little skittish in making that tag. Had Posey's injury in the back of his head?
• jordo212000

  

  His claim to fame might also be 2270 career hits to go along with his postseason greatness.

  Past results do not indicate future success
  Griffey had a ton of home runs to his name. How did that work for him and Seattle last year?
• jordo212000

  

  Cool. I will take your word for it since you have a job in the sports industry

  
  Just a matter of opinion; don't get so defensive when mine is different than yours.

  I wasn't getting defensive. Both of us carried on a good conversation and made valid points. Guess I took exception to you talking down to me "you're still not getting it"
• wildcats20

  

  Damn, wish I could have been home to see this debacle.
  
  I did get to see the final out though.
• Ironman92

  

  I was just talking about his claim to fame not just being 2 postseason hits in 14 years...he's been a helluva smart and productive player for over a decade....it means nothing for this year..nothing. But you'd think after too many opportunities for crappers of the Reds that you'd be a little more Ok with a guy that isn't taking anyones playing time.
  
  Personally I think production out of the 8 hole has been something way too far down the list to really make a difference.
• dave

  It's not just the 8 hole. If, and it's a big if, Cozart can hit .275 and OPS close to .750 he can bat 1 or 2, and you can move Stubbs or Phillips behind Votto and Bruce. Then you have Rolen/Gomes/catcher at the bottom of your order, that's a strong lineup. Now, when Stubbs is slumping it's 3 easy outs 8,9,1 for good pitchers.
  
  It's easy to say the 8 hole hitter doesn't matter when they are playing well, but when Bruce cools off you need production from the whole lineup.
  
  Doesn't really matter though because Walt and Dusty don't seem to want to give any prospects a shot.
• SportsAndLady

  

  Do not understand why people want Stubbs out of the leadoff position...he's been playing great lately, both offensively and defensively.
• dave

  SportsAndLady;793893 wrote:Do not understand why people want Stubbs out of the leadoff position...he's been playing great lately, both offensively and defensively.

  What's his defense have to do with where he hits?
  
  His numbers are better when he's not batting first, I can find em if you want. Aside from that, it's obvious watching him this year he wants to be a power hitter rather than use his speed, which is fine by me if he bats in rbi situations. I believe all but 1 or 2 of his homers have been solo shots though. Put him behind the big boys and see what he can do. He's doing well but I don't think they are maximizing his current ability.
• SportsAndLady

  

  dave;793974 wrote:What's his defense have to do with where he hits?
  
  His numbers are better when he's not batting first, I can find em if you want.

  
  First line: just pointing that out; it doesn't have anything to do his position in the lineup
  
  Second line: He was a rookie last year, of course he's going to have hot and cold streaks. Had nothing to do with his position in the lineup. That's purely coincidental. He's been great lately, you don't move him.
• mhs95_06

  Janish' great value is his defense and that is most important at his position. He needs to start the high majority of the games, and his hitting is secondary, and has been enough to carry him as enough to keep his defense in the game. I think his hitting has been really hampered by his ankle which now looks like it is much better finally. Let him play. Renteria is the back-up, and an experienced hitting role player that is known to be defensively worse - his most value is being the experienced hitter. He has a bad back now, so DL him to get healthy so he can fulfill his role when healthy. Cozart is a young player and shouldn't be on the team long term to sit most of the time, so call him up while Renteria is on the DL, let him spell Janish a game or two to get a taste, and be more of a manuever chip late in games than someone who can't play now(Renteria). Then when Renteria is healthy, send Cozart back to the minors to continue his growth.
• mhs95_06

  jordo212000;793734 wrote:Hernandez looked a little skittish in making that tag. Had Posey's injury in the back of his head?

  
  I think that is right, but I've seen him make bad tags before. What is the sense of tagging at the belt? Covering home on a tag play should be no different than any other base. There should be an avenue to slide and the fielder taking the throw and tagging where the first appendage is going to try to touch the base. Get the glove down there ASAP and get the runner tag himself out, and if he tries some tricky take the hand away slide, sweep the glove into his body.
  
  Catcher play has evolved over the years to trying to block the base without the ball. Like Bench says you give an avenue to slide to get them on the ground, then when you get the ball you can cut-off that lane, and on a really important play you can cheat a little bit and block before you have the ball. But that strategy has become common place making the runners figure that there is not going to be a lane, and the runners for years, instead of doing the right thing and bowling over the catchers when there is no lane, they have invented the slide to the outside the plate and slide past then touch it from the back door, and that is very innovative and effective, but the blocking problem is still there. But now the tide may be turning that the catchers allow the lane so home can be played like the other bases other than the runner only has to touch it once and not hold to the base. Ramon had the lane there for the slide, but either was skittish about the runner maybe trying the bowl, and didn't want to reach down for a proper tag for fear the bowl would be more damaging, or flat out just had bad tagging technique.
• dave

  You have obviously not seen Cozart. He's got a great glove, great range, not the cannon that Janish has. Even if he hits .250 with a little pop and draws a few walks his offense will more than offset the slight decline in D.
  
  That is like saying Drew Stubbs shouldn't have been brought up a few years ago because they had Willy T in center who could play great D.
• riders1

  

  jordo212000;793724 wrote:They had that guy in Orlando Cabrera though.

  Indians thread is just hating on Cabrera and want a rookie like Cord Phelps,just called up, to replace him at 2b.
  
  Cabrera stinks this season!
• Ironman92

  

  Cabrera may stink but he has that crazy lucky karma....Indians better hold onto him or no playoffs! lol
• thavoice

  I think Stubbs will come into his own in the leadoff spot.
  Not a bad thing to have a guy with pop in that spot!
• thavoice

  Not a bad idea to have a guy with pop, and speed, at the top of the lineup. Stubby does K alot...but when he gets on this team rolls
• se-alum

  

  thavoice;794431 wrote:Not a bad idea to have a guy with pop, and speed, at the top of the lineup. Stubby does K alot...but when he gets on this team rolls

  He needs to do lead-off things if he's going to be up there though. I can't fathom how someone w/ his speed made it through every level of baseball w/o learning how to bunt.