Cavs @ Lakers
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thedynasty1998
Did he quit? Yes, maybe he did, in one game. That's inexcusable, and I can respect people being upset with him in that regard. But the fact remains, Cleveland still wanted him back after that game.Fly4Fun;635285 wrote:If Dan Gilbert simply quits on the team and sells it than yes. But if he does everything in his power and falls short of his goal, than I will be satisfied that he tried.
Did LeBron do everything in his power to win a ring BEFORE he left? Hell no, he chose to leave. Secondly, there is no denying that he quit on the team against the Celtics. Anyone who watched could see it happen.
And he did do everything he could to bring a championship to Cleveland. He took them to the finals. He led what is proving to be a horrible team to 60 wins. He brought it every single night and absolutely carried the team.
That wasn't enough, but I don't think you can fault his effort in trying to win a championship. They just were not good enough. -
wildcats20
Getting Tawn instead of Amare or Bosh(even though I don't see him as a game changer) is not doing everything they can. I'm sorry, but the moves were there to make and they didn't pull the trigger. Losing Andy or JJ in the long run and getting an elite player in return is far better than not doing and losing Lebron. -
thedynasty1998
Fly4Fun;635298 wrote:Haha, Gilbert wand the management were making every move they possibly could. People were always amazed with the trades they were making and giving away so little. That's an invalid criticism. You can't fault Gilbert or the management for that.
Who was amazed with what trades? Don't confuse effort with results. Yes, they may have been active, but in retrospect, they didn't make one single trade that improved the roster. And the only proof needed is this teams performance this year. -
Y-Town Steelhound
ohiotiger33;635292 wrote:^^ You are pissed because Lebron quit once. He also carried the team that is obviously TERRIBLE on his back for 8 years and got them pretty deep in the playoffs. He won some MVPs and tried his best to win you a title. The big problem was the front office never giving him teammates.
Bullshit. This isn't like KG in Minnesota or AI in Philly. The Cavs did everything they could to improve their roster and build the team specifically around one player each year they had LeBron. They had the best record in the NBA two seasons in a row. They made an NBA finals. A "terrible" team wouldn't be able to do that....and no, LeBron wasn't playing with Manny Harris, Alonzo Gee, and Christian Eyenga, so don't try to say that this year's team is an indication of the talent of the past 7. The Cavs are doing what is necessary right now to get back into contention. They're playing their young guys to see what they have, losing games to get a high lottery pick, and working the phones to try to use that nice big trade exception of theirs. It's a shitty process unfortunately, but it's what needs to be done.
As for LeBron's tweet....he does realize he has another game in Cleveland this year right? -
jpake1
Haha, ouch. I havn't the followed the Cavs one bit this year and havn't watched much NBA the past few weeks-- I didn't know the Cavs were 1-19 after the Heat game and had the worst record. So I wanted to see the train wreck tonight, and they did not let me down. Too bad for the Cavs there doesn't seem to be a Griffin, Wall, or Rose type of player in this draft. But hey, maybe there will be in the next draft. -
Fly4Fun
Quitting in one game in a 7 game series when it matters is quitting on the whole series and season and team. You can quit on a regular season game and it not be that big of a deal. But you can't just quit in the playoffs. And of course Cleveland wanted him back. They still believed in him because that's what fans do. They protect their guy.thedynasty1998;635306 wrote:Did he quit? Yes, maybe he did, in one game. That's inexcusable, and I can respect people being upset with him in that regard. But the fact remains, Cleveland still wanted him back after that game.
And he did do everything he could to bring a championship to Cleveland. He took them to the finals. He led what is proving to be a horrible team to 60 wins. He brought it every single night and absolutely carried the team.
That wasn't enough, but I don't think you can fault his effort in trying to win a championship. They just were not good enough.
And by leaving before his days were done as a player, and doing it without getting a ring in Cleveland... he quit on him. If you stop early and go somewhere else, that is QUITTING. There is no question he did not do everything to win a ring since he left before he could no longer play at meaningful level and not winning a ring.
wildcats20;635308 wrote:Getting Tawn instead of Amare or Bosh(even though I don't see him as a game changer) is not doing everything they can. I'm sorry, but the moves were there to make and they didn't pull the trigger. Losing Andy or JJ in the long run and getting an elite player in return is far better than not doing and losing Lebron.
It's all speculation that they could have got Amare or Bosh. And at the time people weren't thrilled with Amare or Bosh. People (fans and non-fans) praised the trades that Cleveland made. Just because they didn't work out doesn't mean that at the time they didn't do all they could. They made what they thought were the best decisions. That's doing everything you can. -
thedynasty1998
Look at the other elite teams in the NBA. You remove their best player, and they are still good basketball teams.
Boston without Rondo and they are winning
Chicago loses Noah and are still successful
Oklahoma City has two stars and several other above average players
Utah has depth
San Antonio you can't even tell me who their best player is
Lakers are still a top 4 seed without Kobe
The Cavs without Lebron are the worst team in the NBA. -
wildcats20
Take Chicago off that list. As well as OKC. If you take Rose(Bulls' best player) and KD(OKC best player) off those teams, they are back in the lottery.
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thedynasty1998
Fly4Fun;635316 wrote:Quitting in one game in a 7 game series when it matters is quitting on the whole series and season and team. You can quit on a regular season game and it not be that big of a deal. But you can't just quit in the playoffs. And of course Cleveland wanted him back. They still believed in him because that's what fans do. They protect their guy.
And by leaving before his days were done as a player, and doing it without getting a ring in Cleveland... he quit on him. If you stop early and go somewhere else, that is QUITTING. There is no question he did not do everything to win a ring since he left before he could no longer play at meaningful level and not winning a ring.
Regarding him quitting, it's inexcusable, but if what we hear is true, it is somewhat understandable. His teammate was having sex with his mom. How the hell do you expect him to respond?
He gave 8 years to Cleveland. Gilbert proved that he wasn't capable of putting players around him. -
thedynasty1998
wildcats20;635319 wrote:Take Chicago off that list. As well as OKC. If you take Rose(Bulls' best player) and KD(OKC best player) off those teams, they are back in the lottery.
Not Oklahoma City. Westbrook is as good of a PG as there is in the NBA. They would still be a good team.
Maybe Chicago, but with Boozer, Noah, Deng, Gibson, Brewer and Korver they have very good players around Rose. -
jpake1
I can't help but to think of how incredibly right I was even years ago with how this would all turn out. Sucks for the good Cavs fans. May brighter days be ahead, and if not, may the Browns get well fast.
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Hb31187
The Bulls without Rose would still be in playoff contention, I mean christ look at the 8 seed in the east right now.
And OKC would struggle, but Westbrook, Green, Harden and Ibaka isnt really that terrible of a core -
Fly4Fun
If a teammate is having sex with his mother, you get pissed the guy who did it. But this is his job. You separate your personal life from your private life and do your job.thedynasty1998;635323 wrote:Regarding him quitting, it's inexcusable, but if what we hear is true, it is somewhat understandable. His teammates was having sex with his mom. How the hell do you expect him to respond?
He gave 8 years to Cleveland. Gilbert proved that he wasn't capable of putting players around him.
And as far as putting players around LeBron... the only way you can hold a position of the front office failing LeBron is if you believe that LeBron and Co. did not have a say. They had all kind of special perks and most people would realize that LeBron probably had a say in who he thought was best as well. I bet he was consulted on everything happening as far as structuring the team.
The front office did what they thought was best with some guidance from LeBron. LeBron left early. There is no comparing the two. -
wildcats20
Fly4Fun;635342 wrote:If a teammate is having sex with his mother, you get pissed the guy who did it. But this is his job. You separate your personal life from your private life and do your job.
And as far as putting players around LeBron... the only way you can hold a position of the front office failing LeBron is if you believe that LeBron and Co. did not have a say. They had all kind of special perks and most people would realize that LeBron probably had a say in who he thought was best as well. I bet he was consulted on everything happening as far as structuring the team.
The front office did what they thought was best with some guidance from LeBron. LeBron left early. There is no comparing the two.
Which is another example of this FO failing. -
Skyhook79
thedynasty1998;635317 wrote:Look at the other elite teams in the NBA. You remove their best player, and they are still good basketball teams.
Boston without Rondo and they are winning
Chicago loses Noah and are still successful
Oklahoma City has two stars and several other above average players
Utah has depth
San Antonio you can't even tell me who their best player is
Lakers are still a top 4 seed without Kobe
The Cavs without Lebron are the worst team in the NBA.
If the Cavs still had the same roster Lebron's last year (West,Shaq,Z) and healthy(parker,Boobie,Powe,Verejo) and the same Coach Mike Brown minus Lebron they would be in the Playoffs easily in the Eastern Conf probally a 6 seed at worst. -
Y-Town Steelhound
A result of the Cavs building the team around LeBron and not having any worthwhile draft picks in years. The Cavs have some talent left on their roster, (not much of which is healthy) but these guys were brought it because they played well with LeBron....not because they play well together or play well in Byron Scott's system. Like I said, it's going to be a process to get back but it will happen within the next 5 years.
It is true though that this is one of the single worst draft classes in the last 20 years. There are some solid guys like Irving, Perry Jones, and Sullinger but no can't miss stud like in some previous drafts. Nevertheless it's all part of the process and you have to build the tower brick by brick so no matter what, assuming Grant (hopefully) knows what he's doing, they will get at least one good player out of this draft as well as hopefully something (whether it be a player to build with or an expiring contract or a draft pick) from the trade exception. -
thedynasty1998
Fly4Fun;635342 wrote:If a teammate is having sex with his mother, you get pissed the guy who did it. But this is his job. You separate your personal life from your private life and do your job.
And as far as putting players around LeBron... the only way you can hold a position of the front office failing LeBron is if you believe that LeBron and Co. did not have a say. They had all kind of special perks and most people would realize that LeBron probably had a say in who he thought was best as well. I bet he was consulted on everything happening as far as structuring the team.
The front office did what they thought was best with some guidance from LeBron. LeBron left early. There is no comparing the two.
Regarding his mom. I said it was somewhat understandable, but not excusable. The whole team knew and kept it a secret. I mean it's his mom. Just wrong.
How did Lebron leave "early"? His contract was up and for years he said he was going to explore free agency. He did not leave "early". As for him being involved in personnel decisions, so what if he was? He's not the GM. That is Gilbert's fault for thinking that Lebron knows more than the guy he's paying to do that. That's just a poor excuse on failed personnel moves. -
Y-Town Steelhound
thedynasty1998;635351 wrote:Regarding his mom. I said it was somewhat understandable, but not excusable. The whole team knew and kept it a secret. I mean it's his mom. Just wrong.
How did Lebron leave "early"? His contract was up and for years he said he was going to explore free agency. He did not leave "early". As for him being involved in personnel decisions, so what if he was? He's not the GM. That is Gilbert's fault for thinking that Lebron knows more than the guy he's paying to do that. That's just a poor excuse on failed personnel moves.
I think the big thing that both the Cavs as an organization and Cleveland as a city hopefully learned from the whole "LeBron Era" is that you can't put all of your eggs in one basket. You can't as an organization try to build solely around one player and let that player have so much control within the organization. Likewise you can't rest all your faith into one player because they might just screw your city/team on a one hour national television special. If the Cavs are going to rebuild back to not only a contender but a SERIOUS championship threat they are going to have to do it with multiple good players and not just one great player with multiple one dimensional good players around him. -
Fly4Fun
The front office didn't fail when the guys that were brought in were meant to compliment LeBron and under Mike Brown's system. Now that neither are there of course we have a giant mess. I was never a fan of Mike Brown, but losing LeBron HURTS.
But even go back to the games that LeBron had to sit out under Mike Brown, the Cavs were still a good team without him. To point at this year with the injuries and situation including moral to show how bad the FO supposedly failed is a pitiful argument.
LeBron left early because he pormised to bring a championship to Cleveland before he would leave. He didn't bring a championship and he still has plenty of playing days left... so he left early. Simple.thedynasty1998;635351 wrote:Regarding his mom. I said it was somewhat understandable, but not excusable. The whole team knew and kept it a secret. I mean it's his mom. Just wrong.
How did Lebron leave "early"? His contract was up and for years he said he was going to explore free agency. He did not leave "early". As for him being involved in personnel decisions, so what if he was? He's not the GM. That is Gilbert's fault for thinking that Lebron knows more than the guy he's paying to do that. That's just a poor excuse on failed personnel moves. -
thedynasty1998
Skyhook79;635347 wrote:If the Cavs still had the same roster Lebron's last year (West,Shaq,Z) and healthy(parker,Boobie,Powe,Verejo) and the same Coach Mike Brown minus Lebron they would be in the Playoffs easily in the Eastern Conf probally a 6 seed at worst.
Shaq and Z really wouldn't be difference makers. Delonte was a free agent, so if the Cavs thought that highly of him they could have retained him (I understand the contract buyout).
Varejao just got hurt last week, so you can't use him.
Powe didn't play last year.
Boobie played sparingly last year and has played in 32 games out of 38
Parker has played in 34 games
Poor, poor excuse. So, you are telling me that the absence of Shaq, Z and Delonte, along with the head coach that everyone wanted fired accounts for a difference in 14 wins at this point? To be the 6 seed right now they would have to be 22-15.
Hell, 15 wins seems like a stretch for this team, which would put them in 8th.
Let's think before typing next time. -
thedynasty1998
Fly4Fun;635357 wrote:LeBron left early because he pormised to bring a championship to Cleveland before he would leave. He didn't bring a championship and he still has plenty of playing days left... so he left early. Simple.
You are talking like a 14 year old girl again. -
Y-Town Steelhound
thedynasty1998;635359 wrote:Shaq and Z really wouldn't be difference makers. Delonte was a free agent, so if the Cavs thought that highly of him they could have retained him (I understand the contract buyout).
Varejao just got hurt last week, so you can't use him.
Powe didn't play last year.
Boobie played sparingly last year and has played in 32 games out of 38
Parker has played in 34 games
Poor, poor excuse. So, you are telling me that the absence of Shaq, Z and Delonte, along with the head coach that everyone wanted fired accounts for a difference in 14 wins at this point? To be the 6 seed right now they would have to be 22-15.
Hell, 15 wins seems like a stretch for this team, which would put them in 8th.
Let's think before typing next time.
They also weren't trotting out Manny Harris, Alonzo Gee, Christian Eyenga, Samardo Samuels, and Ryan Hollins for decent minutes a night last year either, so maybe YOU are the one who should think before you type.
It's pretty obvious to me that the Cavs are tanking because they know it's the only way to become a contender again. As much as it sucks to watch games like last night, it's better for the long run state of the franchise. Not to mention the current roster is made up of complements to one player. That player is no longer here so the system doesn't work. -
thedynasty1998
Completely agree with this. Lebron probably did have too much power. Gilbert had to have known when Lebron refused to sign an extension that there was a chance he would leave.Y-Town Steelhound;635354 wrote:I think the big thing that both the Cavs as an organization and Cleveland as a city hopefully learned from the whole "LeBron Era" is that you can't put all of your eggs in one basket. You can't as an organization try to build solely around one player and let that player have so much control within the organization. Likewise you can't rest all your faith into one player because they might just screw your city/team on a one hour national television special. If the Cavs are going to rebuild back to not only a contender but a SERIOUS championship threat they are going to have to do it with multiple good players and not just one great player with multiple one dimensional good players around him.
But now the problem is that the NBA is so top heavy with young talent, can they really get back to a championship caliber team within 5-7 years? The Heat are young. The Lakers and Boston will always be near the top of the NBA. Chicago and Oklahoma City will continue to improve. -
Fly4Fun
thedynasty1998;635362 wrote:You are talking like a 14 year old girl again.
Ummm, no. When someone makes a commitment as an adult, he should be expected to either fulfill that commitment or try your best to fulfill it. LeBron did neither because he left early.
I'm sorry that you don't understand the concept that a man's word should mean something. And yes, he was an adult when he made that statement. -
thedynasty1998
Y-Town Steelhound;635363 wrote:They also weren't trotting out Manny Harris, Alonzo Gee, Christian Eyenga, Samardo Samuels, and Ryan Hollins for decent minutes a night last year either, so maybe YOU are the one who should think before you type.
It's pretty obvious to me that the Cavs are tanking because they know it's the only way to become a contender again. As much as it sucks to watch games like last night, it's better for the long run state of the franchise. Not to mention the current roster is made up of complements to one player. That player is no longer here so the system doesn't work.
You can use that excuse about the talent level going forward. But up to this point in the season the Cavs had their players. Yes, going forward, you play the young guys and keep your fingers crossed that the lottery balls bounce the right way.
But last year guys like Darnell Jackson, Daniel Green and Jawad Williams were getting minutes. That that much of a difference.