Ohio Chatter DEV

ytownfootball

enigmaax;587500 wrote:None of those things have anything to do with LeBron. That is more of that psycho ex-girlfriend thing. "This guy cheated on me and that guy spent my money this guy broke off our engagement and NOW THIS GUY LEAVES ME SO HE SUCKS MORE THAN ANY GUY IN THE WORLD BECAUSE I DIDN'T NEED THIS!!!!" Woe to you, poor, poor precious heart. LeBron should've cured all of the rest of those things you can't let go of...because that's you sign up for when you date someone with so much baggage.

No offense but this is kinda what I mean...it's not the decision singly, it's the cumulative effect.

enigmaax

Manhattan Buckeye;587498 wrote:'But the kid wants that adulation from the rest of the world,"

Which he won't get if he cherry picks his title team. The cliche "if you want to be the best, you have to BEAT the best" is appropriate, there isn't a cliche that "if you want to be the best, you JOIN the best".

James had the opportunity to lead teams, just like Magic, Bird and Jordan did. Magic didn't run to the Rockets, Bird didn't run to the 76'ers and Jordan didn't run to the Pistons. James ran to the Heat.

The only way that will ever be determined is if he wins. I just don't agree that in the long run anyone will care about where, how, or with whom he won his titles. Sports fans care about winning and that is about it (unless you are a jealous fan who cries about the Yankees buying championships and shit like that). A large number of people considered Kobe Bryant a terrible human being for a long time. Now, nobody cares and the conversation is about how great he is/will end up...as a player who has won a shit ton of titles. LeBron's little switch will be a point in the conversation but overall it won't keep him from the Hall of Fame or from talk about his spot in the top 5 of all time (he is/was never going to catch Jordan or maybe even a few others).

enigmaax

ytownfootball;587504 wrote:No offense but this is kinda what I mean...it's not the decision singly, it's the cumulative effect.

I know...and its insane.

Manhattan Buckeye

' A large number of people considered Kobe Bryant a terrible human being for a long time. Now, nobody cares and the conversation is about how great he is/will end up...as a player who has won a shit ton of titles."

That was off the court stuff, different scenario.

BTW, Karen Lotz' comment earlier was beyond inappropriate. If we're having a civil conversation can we keep it civil?

enigmaax

Manhattan Buckeye;587512 wrote:' A large number of people considered Kobe Bryant a terrible human being for a long time. Now, nobody cares and the conversation is about how great he is/will end up...as a player who has won a shit ton of titles."

That was off the court stuff, different scenario.

It is the same basic human characteristic. NBA historical perspective is so much more singularly driven than any other sport. Once you reach a certain level, it is all about titles.

karen lotz

Manhattan Buckeye;587512 wrote:' A large number of people considered Kobe Bryant a terrible human being for a long time. Now, nobody cares and the conversation is about how great he is/will end up...as a player who has won a shit ton of titles."

That was off the court stuff, different scenario.

BTW, Karen Lotz' comment earlier was beyond inappropriate. If we're having a civil conversation can we keep it civil?

Yes I will refrain from butthurt comments if everyone else does, especially the people I quote.

HitsRus

The author of the article did nail it. Semantics and split hair definitions of 'unconditional love' aside, Cleveland offered LBJ something that Miami and no other city can offer...and only a very few athletes have an opportunity to do....that is, bring a championship to their hometown, and be the primary cause it. The fact that Cleveland is champioship starved only makes the accomplishment that much greater, and the adoration and appreciation that much greater. No matter how many champioships he wins in Miami, he cannot attain that level of accomplishment. Hundreds of players have rings.....and when Lebron wins one, he'll just be one of many. He had an opportunity to be so much more, and such becomes a somewhat tragic figure. His 'greatness' bringing him to be reviled in his own home town.

enigmaax

HitsRus;587522 wrote:The author of the article did nail it. Semantics and split hair definitions of 'unconditional love' aside, Cleveland offered LBJ something that Miami and no other city can offer...and only a very few athletes have an opportunity to do....that is, bring a championship to their hometown, and be the primary cause it. The fact that Cleveland is champioship starved only makes the accomplishment that much greater, and the adoration and appreciation that much greater. No matter how many champioships he wins in Miami, he cannot attain that level of accomplishment. Hundreds of players have rings.....and when Lebron wins one, he'll just be one of many. He had an opportunity to be so much more, and such becomes a somewhat tragic figure. His 'greatness' bringing him to be reviled in his own home town.

There are two assumptions you make that can make your point(s)...meaningless.

Was it ever LEBRON's dream to win for Cleveland? I know, you're going to bring up his "promise" and all that. If you don't understand lip service that someone like him has to provide, you'll never understand. Maybe, just maybe, LeBron never cared where he won...he was just trying to win wherever he was and that happened to be Cleveland at the time. So while it may have been a great story for you and Clevelanders, you don't know that it would have made LeBron feel any better about winning there........which brings up point number two....IF he ever won there.

And that is where I think you guys get lost. LeBron didn't feel like it was ever going to happen. He gave it seven years, it didn't work out. He wanted a better chance to fulfill his OWN dream. If he stayed in Cleveland and never won, would he be fulfilled? There was no guarantee...in fact, it is pretty fair to say that he was never going to get it done there. Then how you you feel as a fan knowing your precious interests were protected at his expense? Would you care? Would you look back and say, "damn, I should've let LeBron go"? Dude had to think about himself and what he wants just like you gotta think about yourself and what is best for you every day of your life. And when there's a better opportunity to get what YOU want...especially if you feel like you are never going to get that where you're at....you take it.

karen lotz

well said enigmaax

trep14

enigmaax;587537 wrote:There are two assumptions you make that can make your point(s)...meaningless.

Was it ever LEBRON's dream to win for Cleveland? I know, you're going to bring up his "promise" and all that. If you don't understand lip service that someone like him has to provide, you'll never understand. Maybe, just maybe, LeBron never cared where he won...he was just trying to win wherever he was and that happened to be Cleveland at the time. So while it may have been a great story for you and Clevelanders, you don't know that it would have made LeBron feel any better about winning there........which brings up point number two....IF he ever won there.

And that is where I think you guys get lost. LeBron didn't feel like it was ever going to happen. He gave it seven years, it didn't work out. He wanted a better chance to fulfill his OWN dream. If he stayed in Cleveland and never won, would he be fulfilled? There was no guarantee...in fact, it is pretty fair to say that he was never going to get it done there. Then how you you feel as a fan knowing your precious interests were protected at his expense? Would you care? Would you look back and say, "damn, I should've let LeBron go"? Dude had to think about himself and what he wants just like you gotta think about yourself and what is best for you every day of your life. And when there's a better opportunity to get what YOU want...especially if you feel like you are never going to get that where you're at....you take it.

On the flip side, sports is a two way street, and it is never that simple. I mean, the fans are the ones paying his salary essentially, and they don't have any right to be upset when their dream isn't fulfilled? I'm not saying what you said isn't true, and I, as well as most Cleveland fans, recognize that he had the right to leave. But as fans, I think we also have the right to be upset. Its like someone said earlier, why is it that we have to justify our anger? There are plenty of fan bases that have someone that they boo every time they come to town. Think ARod in Seattle or Texas, Vince Carter in Toronto, etc.

HitsRus

There are two assumptions you make that can make your point(s)...meaningless.

Don't assume that the 'promise' means anything to me, and your assumption that the only thing that means anything from a 'historical perspective' is 'titles' ...is at best a moot point for about 40 years....after we've all forgotten his childish egocentric display..."The Decision"...and his dog and pony show.
Seriously, Is there anyone who wouldn't think that LBJ was a great player? At worst, historically, he ends up known as the best NBA player to never win a title. Meanwhile, the guy is worth at least a half a billion dollars, and beloved by his fans, not only in Cleveland but around the world. Wow...and that's the worst even if Northeast Ohio and his hometown don't mean a damn thing to him.(which is NOT the case).

Instead, he pulls a dick move that makes him come off as a jerk on a national stage...all to chase titles. He had a unique opportunity in Cleveland to distinguish himself from the rest of the pack. Moreover, he had it good in Cleveland...real good. That is a point of Rosenberg's article.
Instead, he sold out himself, his reputation and goodwill from fans. He came off as narcissistic, stuck it to his fans who wore their hearts on their sleeve for him, left his former team in the lurch and without viable options, and didn't give the owner the courtesy of a heads up of his decision. .....Extremely immature, lacking class, and a sucker punch to those who cheered hardest for him.
Lebron's biggest mistake?....making his 'friends' his advisors. Tough to go against their advice...tough to fire them, even when that is what should be done. That's how I'll know that Lebron has really matured...when he fires Maverick Carter.

derek bomar

HitsRus;587667 wrote: That's how I'll know that Lebron has really matured...when he fires Maverick Carter.

I'd have loved to see it prior to the debacle...that said, I hope he keeps him forever now so he continues to make an ass out of himself. You could write a fucking book on how bad Maverick Carter is at his job and teach it in a University as a "what not to do" lecture

lhslep134

Manhattan Buckeye;587498 wrote:'But the kid wants that adulation from the rest of the world,"

Which he won't get if he cherry picks his title team. The cliche "if you want to be the best, you have to BEAT the best" is appropriate, there isn't a cliche that "if you want to be the best, you JOIN the best".

James had the opportunity to lead teams, just like Magic, Bird and Jordan did. Magic didn't run to the Rockets, Bird didn't run to the 76'ers and Jordan didn't run to the Pistons. James ran to the Heat.

1. Jordan was joined by Pippen and then started winning

2. Bird was joined by McHale and then started winning (and had Parish)

3. Abdul-Jabar was joined by Magic and then started winning.

So why the fuck wouldn't James join his Magic, his McHale, his Pippen by playing with Wade? James didn't have anyone as good as those mentioned above or Wade in Cleveland.

I'm soooo sick of the "those legends didn't leave their team" argument. Well no shit, because they had hall of famers on the same team as them, and Lebron didn't, and no one was going to come to Cleveland for him to stay.

Anyone who uses that argument is upset that Lebron left from a BASKETBALL standpoint and not from a deuchebag (The Decision) standpoint, and THAT is psycho ex-girlfriend ish.

HitsRus

Not this year...not with his contract status being in doubt. You don't think that someone would have come to play with LBJ, if Lebron was signed for a number of years?...Hahaha.

lhslep134

HitsRus;587713 wrote:Not this year...not with his contract status being in doubt. You don't think that someone would have come to play with LBJ, if Lebron was signed for a number of years?...Hahaha.

Nope. I don't.

Windhorst said upon coming to Miami Lebron did more player recruiting than all his time in Cleveland. 'Nuf said.

So you're telling me in your fantastical little parallel world you'd see another superstar come to Cleveland? I don't see it at all, and maybe Lebron didn't see it either, so he left to join a superteam that you need nowadays in the NBA to win a title, because there wasn't going to be a superteam in Cleveland, no matter how badly we Cleveland fans wanted to believe otherwise.

karen lotz

HitsRus;587713 wrote:Not this year...not with his contract status being in doubt. You don't think that someone would have come to play with LBJ, if Lebron was signed for a number of years?...Hahaha.

LeBron couldn't convince Bosh to come to Cleveland. Both could have signed long term deals.....Hahaha.

gport_tennis

By the sounds of what windhorst said it dosent even sound like lebron tried to recruit bosh

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

KR1245

karen lotz;587726 wrote:LeBron couldn't convince Bosh to come to Cleveland. Both could have signed long term deals.....Hahaha.

That never happened. If you're going to talk at least know what you're talking about.

By: Garrett Downing
During an interview on SI.com’s Dan Patrick show , one of Miami’s “Big Three” provided some insight into this summer’s free agency process. Despite the rumors, Bosh said that LeBron James never asked him to come play in Cleveland.

“We never had a discussion about Cleveland,” Bosh said, Wednesday morning. "We never really had discussions, period."

heres the link:

http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/sports/sports_blogs_local/bosh-lebron-never-asked-me-to-play-in-cleveland

Goes to show what happens when people listen to dumbasses like Chris Broussard

karen lotz

KR1245;587736 wrote: “We never had a discussion about Cleveland,” Bosh said, Wednesday morning. "We never really had discussions, period."

Was Bosh a part of the supposed free agent "summits" this past summer? (honestly I don't remember) If you believe they never "really had discussions, period," you shouldn't talk. You obviously don't know what you are talking about.

HitsRus

Hmmmm.So you think that LBJ couldn't convince Bosh to come to Cleveland, so he just decided at the last minute to join him and Wade in Miami?...that Miami coincidentally had cleared just enough cap space for both of them...and it just happened. Why do you think Gilbert is pursuing the tampering charge so hard? Guess he's got money to burn now that he doesn't have to pay Lebron, and he just wants to waste it. Gilbert is a shrewd businessman and he knows when he's been screwed.

karen lotz

HitsRus;587741 wrote:Why do you think Gilbert is pursuing the tampering charge so hard?

psycho ex-girlfriend syndrome.

KR1245

karen lotz;587740 wrote:Was Bosh a part of the supposed free agent "summits" this past summer? (honestly I don't remember) If you believe they never "really had discussions, period," you shouldn't talk. You obviously don't know what you are talking about.

Chris Bosh said that they never had discusssions about playing in Cleveland. Winhorts denied that it happened as well. I dont think Bron tried to get people to play in Cleveland nearly as bad as people would like to think. Windy had a quote a couple weeks after the Decision, not exactly what it was but it was something like "Bron has done more recruiting in 2 weeks than he did in 7 years in Cleveland".........that really sounds like somebody that was trying to make the Cavs a better team

karen lotz

So you are taking what you want out of the quote. You quoted Bosh as saying they didn't have discussions period. Do you believe that? You think the 3 of them didn't discuss all playing in Miami at all? Maybe LeBron said something one time to Bosh about joining him in Cleveland, Bosh replied "Fuck no" and that was the end of it.

HitsRus

So what's your point? There was collusion and tampering or that there is no way that another star player goes to Cleveland? Gilbert did not get where he is at by being stupid. He has a pretty good feel that what went down was not jake. IF there was tampering, that is NOT psycho -ex girlfriend syndrome.

enigmaax

HitsRus;587667 wrote: 1. your assumption that the only thing that means anything from a 'historical perspective' is 'titles' ...is at best a moot point for about 40 years
2. Seriously, Is there anyone who wouldn't think that LBJ was a great player? At worst, historically, he ends up known as the best NBA player to never win a title.
3. all to chase titles.
4. He had a unique opportunity in Cleveland to distinguish himself from the rest of the pack. Moreover, he had it good in Cleveland...real good. That is a point of Rosenberg's article.
5. He came off as narcissistic
6. left his former team in the lurch and without viable options

1. See the perception of Kobe Bryant in the last, oh, say, two-three years.
2. Maybe he didn't want to end up as the greatest player to never win a title?
3. Because maybe thats what HE is looking for...titles?
4. Unique opportunity for who? Real good for who? It is really easy to say, "I would have loved that situation", but until you have the options he had, you don't really know whether those things meant two shits to him. It is like the whole, well you already make so much money thing that we chumps like to throw at pro athletes. But in their mind, they want to be treated fairly according to market value, not by what WE think. Different things drive people and thats my main beef in the LeBron nonsense...everyone says he had this and that, but if those weren't the things he was EVER looking for, it doesn't mean a darn thing.
5. He is. And always was. And Clevelanders formerly defended that trait.
6. He did not cost them any viable options and it isn't his job to look out for the future of the franchise anyway. If Dan Gilbert is so smart, why could he not see the writing on the wall just like most of the rest of the non-Cleveland fans in the world? Cleveland was going to get a top tier FA with or without LeBron.

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Michael Rosenberg of SI absolutely NAILS it with article about Cleveland and LeBron