Should The Cleveland Cavs Retire LeBron's Number?

• gibby08

  

  It does as a basketball fan
• KR1245

  

  gibby08;433484 wrote:That doesn't change my opinion,he still doesn't deserve his jersey retired

  
  Z doesnt deserve to have his jersey retire because he never won anything?
  
  Should the Dolphins not have retired Dan Marinos jersey?
  Red Sox retire Ted Williams?
  Bills retire Jim Kelly?
• like_that

  

  There is more to retiring a number than just stats. Respect, integrity, and loyalty all play a factor into it. Lebron forfeited all three categories after his narcissistic approach to free agency. How can you retire a player's number when the whole city doesn't even respect the him? That would be a huge insult to the city.
  
  By the way Gibby, the 2008 election called, they want their avatar and signature back.
• thedynasty1998

  

  How many All Star games did Z make it to? 2?
  
  And he should get his number retired? I respect Z a lot, but he is not the caliber of player that gets his number hung in the rafters.
• KR1245

  

  like_that;433532 wrote:There is more to retiring a number than just stats. Respect, integrity, and loyalty all play a factor into it. Lebron forfeited all three categories after his narcissistic approach to free agency. How can you retire a player's number when the whole city doesn't even respect the him? That would be a huge insult to the city.
  
  By the way Gibby, the 2008 election called, they want their avatar and signature back.

  
  
  Agree 100%
• enigmaax

  KR1245;433527 wrote:Z doesnt deserve to have his jersey retire because he never won anything?
  
  Should the Dolphins not have retired Dan Marinos jersey?
  Red Sox retire Ted Williams?
  Bills retire Jim Kelly?

  
  It probably isn't based exclusively on winning, but all those guys you mentioned are in their sport's Hall of Fame, as well. I know there are going to be some players who may have meant something to their own teams who don't end up in the Hall, but I would think that should be something other than just sticking around for a longer time than anyone else.
  
  As for LeBron, here are questions I'd consider. If he had remained a Cavalier and never won a title (regardless of whether or not he wins in Miami), would he have ended up in the HOF? (Probably, yes.) If he ends up in the HOF, how many prominent Cavs players would he join there (honest question)? Which of the guys whose jerseys are already retired had the impact on the franchise and city, for better or worse, by being on the team?
  
  I know everyone is going to be bitter for a long, long time. But, is it really that easy to discount what he meant to the franchise while he was there (which is more than any other player you've ever had)?
• KR1245

  

  thedynasty1998;433541 wrote:How many All Star games did Z make it to? 2?
  
  And he should get his number retired? I respect Z a lot, but he is not the caliber of player that gets his number hung in the rafters.

  
  You saw where Z ranks all-time in games played, rebounds, points etc........
  
  Cavs shouldnt retired his jersey because he only made the All-Star game twice? Gotta disagree with that
• KR1245

  

  enigmaax;433554 wrote:It probably isn't based exclusively on winning, but all those guys you mentioned are in their sport's Hall of Fame, as well. I know there are going to be some players who may have meant something to their own teams who don't end up in the Hall, but I would think that should be something other than just sticking around for a longer time than anyone else.
  
  As for LeBron, here are questions I'd consider. If he had remained a Cavalier and never won a title (regardless of whether or not he wins in Miami), would he have ended up in the HOF? (Probably, yes.) If he ends up in the HOF, how many prominent Cavs players would he join there (honest question)? Which of the guys whose jerseys are already retired had the impact on the franchise and city, for better or worse, by being on the team?
  
  I know everyone is going to be bitter for a long, long time. But, is it really that easy to discount what he meant to the franchise while he was there (which is more than any other player you've ever had)?

  
  To answer your question....Yes.
  
  Cleveland will never forgive him for the way he went about leaving. Lebron could be 99 yrs old and the city still wont respect him.
• thedynasty1998

  

  KR1245;433555 wrote:You saw where Z ranks all-time in games played, rebounds, points etc........
  
  Cavs shouldnt retired his jersey because he only made the All-Star game twice? Gotta disagree with that

  
  That seems to be a shared opinion amongst Cavs fans, but it's not something that I really understand. He is being rewarded more so on longevity than greatness.
• Laley23

  

  norwalk;433417 wrote:Hmmm retire James and Z's numbers? That would bring the storied Cavs franchise up to 8 retired numbers? Seems kinda high for a franchise that really has very little winning or tradition. Not sure how many the Celtics have retired or all other franchises but 8 seems awfully high for a franchise like Cleveland. But hey, all because some of the guys were good guys and played during the Miracle in Richfield or the Jordan era retire their numbers sounds like a good enough reason to me.

  
  
  Celtics - 21
  Lakers - 7 (Kobe makes 8 maybe 9 for two numbers)
  
  I would liken James to Shaq. He was there for 8(?) years and was great. He won 3 titles even, but I doubt the Lakers will retire his number.
• thedynasty1998

  

  FYI, list of numbers retired for each team:
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Basketball_Association_retired_jersey_numbers
• hoops23

  

  All those guys deserved their jerseys being retired in Cleveland. Again, the retiring of a number isn't solely based on stats.
  
  Z will have his jersey hung in the rafters as well, and we'll all welcome it because he was a true professional.
• Al Bundy

  thedynasty1998;433609 wrote:FYI, list of numbers retired for each team:
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Basketball_Association_retired_jersey_numbers

  
  Great list of players, but it is insane that the Miami Heat retired Michael Jordan's number.
• gibby08

  

  Al Bundy;433724 wrote:Great list of players, but it is insane that the Miami Heat retired Michael Jordan's number.

  
  It's fixing to happen all across the league
• gerb131

  

  I will donate the jersey if they do.
• enigmaax

  hoops23;433670 wrote:All those guys deserved their jerseys being retired in Cleveland. Again, the retiring of a number isn't solely based on stats.
  
  Z will have his jersey hung in the rafters as well, and we'll all welcome it because he was a true professional.

  
  So what is the basis for the honor? Is it just because he stayed a long time? Is the honor not reserved for great players, as opposed to great people? I mean, I get that it isn't solely based on stats, but shouldn't that be where it starts?
  
  I'm not arguing for one side or the other, I'm just trying to understand. I saw the post about "Z's" stats...he leads in a lot of categories, so I understand that part of it. In your opinion, as a fan, did he accumulate most of the totals because he stuck around longer than anyone else or would the raw numbers (not the fact that he is #1 on a list) otherwise constitute having the jersey retired? Does that question make sense? For example, to use arbitrary numbers - if he played in CLE for 15 years and averaged 10 points a game, he could be #1 on the scoring list over a guy who played there 5 years and averaged 25 points a game. Ten points is kind of pedestrian - would that normally be a guy you'd honor by retiring a jersey?
• krazie45

  

  Hell the Browns retired Ernie Davis' number and he never even played a game for them...
  
  Retiring jerseys is about that player's contributions to the team and community and how they're viewed by the fans. It's not honoring the greatest basketball players of all time....that's what the hall of fame is for. It's honoring the greatest Cleveland Cavaliers of all time by what they do on and off the court.....sending a message to anyone that puts on that uniform that this person is a standard to live up to both as a player and professional.
  
  It's all about team discretion and what that player meant to the franchise. Z definitely deserves to have his number retired.
• wildcats20

  

  Al Bundy;433724 wrote:Great list of players, but it is insane that the Miami Heat retired Michael Jordan's number.

  
  Pat Riley did it out of respect to MJ.
• wes_mantooth

  

  wildcats20;433815 wrote:Pat Riley did it out of respect to MJ.

  
  Why don't you shut your face....out of respect for me!!! PWNED!!!
• hangonsloopy

  

  krazie45;433803 wrote:Hell the Browns retired Ernie Davis' number and he never even played a game for them...
  
  Retiring jerseys is about that player's contributions to the team and community and how they're viewed by the fans. It's not honoring the greatest basketball players of all time....that's what the hall of fame is for. It's honoring the greatest Cleveland Cavaliers of all time by what they do on and off the court.....sending a message to anyone that puts on that uniform that this person is a standard to live up to both as a player and professional.
  
  It's all about team discretion and what that player meant to the franchise. Z definitely deserves to have his number retired.

  
  Very well put. I agree
• grodt

  

  krazie45;433803 wrote:Hell the Browns retired Ernie Davis' number and he never even played a game for them...
  
  Retiring jerseys is about that player's contributions to the team and community and how they're viewed by the fans. It's not honoring the greatest basketball players of all time....that's what the hall of fame is for. It's honoring the greatest Cleveland Cavaliers of all time by what they do on and off the court.....sending a message to anyone that puts on that uniform that this person is a standard to live up to both as a player and professional.
  
  It's all about team discretion and what that player meant to the franchise. Z definitely deserves to have his number retired.

  
  Well said. Completely agree
• Cleveland Buck

  

  
• friendfromlowry

  First of all, retiring Lebron's jersey would be like pissing all over the fanbase. "Hey this guy dissed on us on national television, practically causing a weekend riot in Cleveland to ensue. Not only that, but now the immediate success of the franchise is in question because you have a group of second-tier players that are left to play." I think you retire a jersey based on credentials and respect. Had he played most of his career here and still never won a title - then absolutely I think we retire the jersey. For that same reasoning, I don't think we retire Ilgauskas either.
  Between him and Lebron, I think Z deserves it more because ultimately he has the respect.
  
  I think I'm probably the only one who resents Z for leaving Cleveland now and going to Miami. Barkley said it best on PTI today. You'll see a lot of old guys jump on this team trying to get a ring. But there's a difference between being on a championship team and being a champion.
  
  Jeff Foster is going on his 11th or 12th season with the Pacers, and he's faced the same issues as Z did. He's had to fight Brad Miller, Rik Smits, Scot Pollard for playing time and also battled injuries but made it back on the court. I think he deserves maybe MORE credit, because the Pacers have fucking sucked the past decade. Will they retire his jersey for never leaving?
• Rotinaj

  

  LOL your seriously comparing Jeff Foster to Z????????
• enigmaax

  krazie45;433803 wrote: Retiring jerseys is about that player's contributions to the team and community and how they're viewed by the fans. It's not honoring the greatest basketball players of all time....that's what the hall of fame is for. It's honoring the greatest Cleveland Cavaliers of all time by what they do on and off the court.....sending a message to anyone that puts on that uniform that this person is a standard to live up to both as a player and professional.

  Okay, so, take the fact that LeBron left Cleveland out of it. Has there been a player that impacted or contributed more to the team (while he was there) and community (while he was there) in the history of the Cavs? I mean, I've seen people say that LeBron changed the whole economy of Cleveland. I know how your feelings are working about the way he left, but can you really deny what he meant to the organization, city, and maybe even state?
  

  krazie45;433803 wrote: It's all about team discretion and what that player meant to the franchise. Z definitely deserves to have his number retired.

  I'm really trying to see this. You provide a lot of lip service - what's done for the team, the community, etc. So, what is it specifically about Ilgauskas (sp?) that makes you say he "deserves" it. So, I know you're saying stats aren't the whole story, but doesn't that have something to do with what he means to the franchise. For example, what did having your best year (kind of a paltry 17 ppg) during a season in which your team won 17 games really do for the franchise? What did shooting less than 50% for a career really mean to the franchise? Based on his contracts, the injuries that limited him (was still getting paid big money), and his production, has he ever been good for the franchise?
  
  So the other part is, what did he do for the community? It'd be a much more sound statement if you cited exactly what he did for the community.