Crosby vs Ovechkin.......Part 4
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ptown_trojans_1
Haha. Boy, you do not like Ovey. At least acknowledge he is the 2nd best player in the league (behind Crosby of course).rock_knutne wrote:
You mean leave his feet and deliver cheap shots? Ovechkin is a punk and eventually someone's going to cut him in half.ptown_trojans_1 wrote:
Maybe I'm bias, cause I see all the Caps game, but he does check a lot and delivers some good hits to people. No, he is not a great defender, but he is a good one.rock_knutne wrote:
He's not a two way player period! He plays zero defense, doesn't back check and is as selfish as they come. I would hope the leading goal scorer playing on a teams top line that deosn't kill penalties would be a plus player. But, as I've said before, plus/minus is not the tell all of a great player.GeneralsIcer89 wrote: Sorry if this goes waaaaaaaay back to the first few posts in the thread, but how is Ovie not a two-way player? He is +43. He has 48 goals. One doesn't have a +/- rating like that without being responsible defensively.
The Caps as a whole are pretty average on defense, and it shows in the scoreboard as the average games are 4-3.
Sorry, we can agree to disagree, Ovechkin has zero concept of defending or backchecking, none what so ever.
We'll agree to disagree. But, we'll see what happens come the playoffs. -
queencitybuckeye
People in the game put quite a bit of stock in it, actually.The_Crosby_Show wrote: +/- is one of the worthless stats out there. -
Al Capone
You're an asshole strap on!!!Strapping Young Lad wrote: Because that's the market I live in. Sorry I didn't get your permission to post here first. Blow me. -
rock_knutne
Yeah, I hate him, he's a no class punk but I have always said Ovechkin is one of the best, maybe one of the best shots ever in the game. I just don't think he's a complete hockey player like Crosby and some of the shit he does on the ice would garner a nobody player significant fines and suspensions.ptown_trojans_1 wrote: Haha. Boy, you do not like Ovey. At least acknowledge he is the 2nd best player in the league (behind Crosby of course).
We'll agree to disagree. But, we'll see what happens come the playoffs. -
rock_knutne
It's a misleading stat.queencitybuckeye wrote:
People in the game put quite a bit of stock in it, actually.The_Crosby_Show wrote: +/- is one of the worthless stats out there. -
KnightXC1
Crosby is far from a complete player and so is Ovechkin. -
rock_knutne^^^^^LMAO, OK what ever you say! Let me guess, that honor would go to Datsyuk or Zetterberg.:rolleyes:
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Strapping Young Lad
tell us something we didn't know, old man.Al Capone wrote:
You're an asshole strap on!!!Strapping Young Lad wrote: Because that's the market I live in. Sorry I didn't get your permission to post here first. Blow me. -
Strapping Young Lad
Yes, I'll bet the majority would give those two the nod as great two-way players far before Cindy.rock_knutne wrote: ^^^^^LMAO, OK what ever you say! Let me guess, that honor would go to Datsyuk or Zetterberg.:rolleyes: -
rock_knutne^^^^^Still having to live through other teams......you're sad and pathetic.
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KnightXC1
When Crosby starts consistently being on the ice killing penalties, leads the league in takeaways (like a certain Wing does by an extremely large margin), and has a plus minus higher than 11, please do let me know
And yes, I will say Datsyuk is the best 2 way player in the game. I don't think many people would argue that assessment either. -
End of Line
Go over to HFboards and look up the +/- thread. Everyone agreed that it is worthless. Here's a couple of examples.queencitybuckeye wrote:
People in the game put quite a bit of stock in it, actually.The_Crosby_Show wrote: +/- is one of the worthless stats out there.
Jeff Schultz is a +44, while Nick Lidstrom is a +21. Does that mean that Schultz is the best defenseman in the game? Fuck no, Schultz is avearge at best while, Lidstrom at 39 is the best defenseman in the game. Actually the best dman of the past decade. There's a reason why he's called Mr. Norris.
Ovechkin is a +43. Datsyuk is a +16. So I guess that OV is the worlds best 2way player? Uhm no. Datsyuk plays on the #1 PK unit for Detroit, and hell, I consider Datsyuk right behind Crosby and Malkin when it comes to being the best players in the world.
As you see, the +/- stat is worthless. -
KnightXC1
^^ It's not totally worthless but it has flaws. Such as it doesn't take into account being short handed or on the power play. That would make it a much more reasonable number. Still gives a representation of how you and your team does at even strength.
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End of Line
^^^^Eh true.
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sonofsam
As is sits right now, it looks like the Pens have lost the "desire" they had last year. I understand that the play-offs can change the way a team plays and many of the teams will step it up a notch, but the pens are extremely inconsistent.
Crosby is the Captain of the team and it looks as of recently he is looking to pass rather than make a play. Last year if the team was struggling, he took it upon himself to take the weight of the team and make a play. Not sure if he is tired, injured and not saying anything, or what the deal is, but he's not playing at the level he is capable of.
Fleury is playing terrible. He makes the hardest saves, but lets the easy ones by. You have to put some of that blame on the defense as well, they have not been playing their best hockey this year. The defense need to start punishing the rush and make a statement... They have to help the goalie out a bit, although the goalie needs to make the easy plays as well.
The power play is horrid. Everyone knows that the defensemen are going to shoot the puck... Why not crash the net a bit? get the goalie on his knees and work for it.
The pens have to find a way to beat the trap. New Jersey shuts them down with it and teams are catching on to that... I would imagine we will see a lot more of it in the play-offs. Its called the trap for two reasons, to trap the puck in the offensive zone of the defending team, but its also called the trap because it can be exactly that for the defense... All it takes is for one player to make a move to get open up ice and it can lead to a breakaway. The pens need to open the passing lanes and get players open on the pass.
The key to play-off time is to become extremely physical... hit hard and hit often. Enough of the glitz and more of the hits.
Hopefully after this season they can deal away McKee. His play has been bad all year. Other guys that need to step it up or could face trade are Adams, Eaton, and Ponikarovski if he can't find his groove. -
Strapping Young Lad
Being objective instead of a mindless homer is probably sad and pathetic in your eyes. But that's only because you're an idiot.....rock_knutne wrote: ^^^^^Still having to live through other teams......you're sad and pathetic.
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End of Line
Poni avgs. like 13mins a night. He needs to be on the first line right now, sicne Kunitz is DTD.sonofsam wrote: As is sits right now, it looks like the Pens have lost the "desire" they had last year. I understand that the play-offs can change the way a team plays and many of the teams will step it up a notch, but the pens are extremely inconsistent.
Crosby is the Captain of the team and it looks as of recently he is looking to pass rather than make a play. Last year if the team was struggling, he took it upon himself to take the weight of the team and make a play. Not sure if he is tired, injured and not saying anything, or what the deal is, but he's not playing at the level he is capable of.
Fleury is playing terrible. He makes the hardest saves, but lets the easy ones by. You have to put some of that blame on the defense as well, they have not been playing their best hockey this year. The defense need to start punishing the rush and make a statement... They have to help the goalie out a bit, although the goalie needs to make the easy plays as well.
The power play is horrid. Everyone knows that the defensemen are going to shoot the puck... Why not crash the net a bit? get the goalie on his knees and work for it.
The pens have to find a way to beat the trap. New Jersey shuts them down with it and teams are catching on to that... I would imagine we will see a lot more of it in the play-offs. Its called the trap for two reasons, to trap the puck in the offensive zone of the defending team, but its also called the trap because it can be exactly that for the defense... All it takes is for one player to make a move to get open up ice and it can lead to a breakaway. The pens need to open the passing lanes and get players open on the pass.
The key to play-off time is to become extremely physical... hit hard and hit often. Enough of the glitz and more of the hits.
Hopefully after this season they can deal away McKee. His play has been bad all year. Other guys that need to step it up or could face trade are Adams, Eaton, and Ponikarovski if he can't find his groove. -
queencitybuckeye
I'd rather talk to people who are actually in the game. None of them would say it's a worthless stat.The_Crosby_Show wrote: Go over to HFboards and look up the +/- thread. Everyone agreed that it is worthless. Here's a couple of examples. -
queencitybuckeyeThe_Crosby_Show wrote:
Go over to HFboards and look up the +/- thread. Everyone agreed that it is worthless. Here's a couple of examples.queencitybuckeye wrote:
People in the game put quite a bit of stock in it, actually.The_Crosby_Show wrote: +/- is one of the worthless stats out there.
Jeff Schultz is a +44, while Nick Lidstrom is a +21. Does that mean that Schultz is the best defenseman in the game? Fuck no, Schultz is avearge at best while, Lidstrom at 39 is the best defenseman in the game. Actually the best dman of the past decade. There's a reason why he's called Mr. Norris.
Ovechkin is a +43. Datsyuk is a +16. So I guess that OV is the worlds best 2way player? Uhm no. Datsyuk plays on the #1 PK unit for Detroit, and hell, I consider Datsyuk right behind Crosby and Malkin when it comes to being the best players in the world.
As you see, the +/- stat is worthless.
Malkin is no more the second best player in the world than I am. -
End of Line
^^^Huh?
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sonofsam
I agree... But tonight he had some opportunity and ended up in the dressing room... :-/The_Crosby_Show wrote:
Poni avgs. like 13mins a night. He needs to be on the first line right now, sicne Kunitz is DTD.sonofsam wrote: As is sits right now, it looks like the Pens have lost the "desire" they had last year. I understand that the play-offs can change the way a team plays and many of the teams will step it up a notch, but the pens are extremely inconsistent.
Crosby is the Captain of the team and it looks as of recently he is looking to pass rather than make a play. Last year if the team was struggling, he took it upon himself to take the weight of the team and make a play. Not sure if he is tired, injured and not saying anything, or what the deal is, but he's not playing at the level he is capable of.
Fleury is playing terrible. He makes the hardest saves, but lets the easy ones by. You have to put some of that blame on the defense as well, they have not been playing their best hockey this year. The defense need to start punishing the rush and make a statement... They have to help the goalie out a bit, although the goalie needs to make the easy plays as well.
The power play is horrid. Everyone knows that the defensemen are going to shoot the puck... Why not crash the net a bit? get the goalie on his knees and work for it.
The pens have to find a way to beat the trap. New Jersey shuts them down with it and teams are catching on to that... I would imagine we will see a lot more of it in the play-offs. Its called the trap for two reasons, to trap the puck in the offensive zone of the defending team, but its also called the trap because it can be exactly that for the defense... All it takes is for one player to make a move to get open up ice and it can lead to a breakaway. The pens need to open the passing lanes and get players open on the pass.
The key to play-off time is to become extremely physical... hit hard and hit often. Enough of the glitz and more of the hits.
Hopefully after this season they can deal away McKee. His play has been bad all year. Other guys that need to step it up or could face trade are Adams, Eaton, and Ponikarovski if he can't find his groove. -
rock_knutne
Crosby does kill penalties. BTW, did Datsyuk score 50 goals this year?KnightXC1 wrote: When Crosby starts consistently being on the ice killing penalties, leads the league in takeaways (like a certain Wing does by an extremely large margin), and has a plus minus higher than 11, please do let me know
And yes, I will say Datsyuk is the best 2 way player in the game. I don't think many people would argue that assessment either. -
rock_knutneStrapping Young Lad wrote:Being objective instead of a mindless homer is probably sad and pathetic in your eyes. But that's only because you're an idiot.....
If I'm an idiot then you must be completly comatose. -
rock_knutnesonofsam wrote: I agree... But tonight he had some opportunity and ended up in the dressing room... :-/
For boarding a guy. Ponikarovsky will be just fine. -
rock_knutne
LMAO........let me guess, you talk to 8 year old players in a midget league.queencitybuckeye wrote:I'd rather talk to people who are actually in the game. None of them would say it's a worthless stat.